Curing rock in a swimming pool?

EdSnyder · 10/15/2012, 07:59 AM

Would this work? I have been fighting a battle with my pukani rock for some time now. I was thinking about pulling it from my tank and curing it again with lanthanum chloride.
What if I just throw it in the pool for a month or so.
It would be a lot of water for it to leach into, with lots of flow.

MrG · 10/15/2012, 08:34 AM

Can't say I'm familiar with lanthanum chloride, but my initial reaction was that this may not work or may have unintended consequences.

I would be concerned with the pool water chemistry. Iwouldn't think the salinity of the pool would match that of seawather and therefore there may be no benefit from a bacterial growth standpoint. (and actually I would think the chemicals in pool water would be intended to inhibit bacterial growth) More importantly, I would be worried about what might get into the water and therefore into the rock. Sunscreen, runoff water from rain and the possible introduction of copper since the water used to fill the pool is probably not RO/DI.

My gut is that you would be better served to cure the rock in a dedicated container of salt water or RO/DI water with a powerhead where you have more control over the curing environment.

EdSnyder · 10/15/2012, 12:33 PM

Sorry, maybe I shouldn't have used the word cure. What I am trying to do is remove Po4 from my rock. It has been in my display tank for eight months now, and it is obviously full of phosphate. lanthanum chloride is used in pools, to remove phosphate.

Eric45 · 10/15/2012, 04:27 PM

If the pool is in use, the chlorine would kill everything on and in the rock within a couple of days.

hollister · 10/15/2012, 04:31 PM

Thats a first. May clean the rock wont solve the problem. If you solve the problem then theres no need to remove the rock.
I guess your problem is algea? Well if so its not the rock.
But with such little tank info then its impossible.
Things like age , equipment , stock and amount of LR and Substrate? And water readings and not that its all good. What are you testing for.

EdSnyder · 10/15/2012, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric45

If the pool is in use, the chlorine would kill everything on and in the rock within a couple of days.

I'm fine with killing everything. I understand coral won't live in a swimming pool.

hollister · 10/15/2012, 05:43 PM

Like i said. This may cure the problem but not the source.........................

disc1 · 10/15/2012, 05:52 PM

If it is pukani then the rock is definitely the problem. That stuff is loaded with phosphate that leaches I to the water.

I wouldn't put it in the pool though. I wouldn't trust that water not to put something even worse I to my rock.

EdSnyder · 10/15/2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollister

Thats a first. May clean the rock wont solve the problem. If you solve the problem then theres no need to remove the rock.
I guess your problem is algea? Well if so its not the rock.
But with such little tank info then its impossible.
Things like age , equipment , stock and amount of LR and Substrate? And water readings and not that its all good. What are you testing for.

The problem is the rock. My tank has been set up for 5 to 6 years. I have the same three fish iVe had for 5 to 6 years, I have the same types of corals. Really nothing new except for the 3 pieces pukani rock I added a few months back. The algae is mostly growing just on those three pieces of rock. I was about to start treating the rocks with LC, when I had the pool idea. There is LC in the pool. There is LOTS of water and flow too. People clean rock with bleach, it's in there too. Just wondering if anyone has tried this.

sirreal63 · 10/15/2012, 06:00 PM

Why waste the life on and in the rock? Use the LC in a Brute container and remove the po4, there is no need in killing the rock completely.

hollister · 10/15/2012, 06:05 PM

Unwanted algea doesnt like normal water readings and good steady water flow. Cleaning the rock wont cure the problem.

EdSnyder · 10/15/2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirreal63

Why waste the life on and in the rock? Use the LC in a Brute container and remove the po4, there is no need in killing the rock completely.

I just thought it might work quicker in a pool, with all that water. It's only 3 pieces of rock, maybe 10% of my rock. The only things attached to it are soft corals I could frag off and some fans, corraline, etc. Not at all worried about that stuff.
I already did the brute can with water changes and gfo for a month before I put it in my tank.
Im kinda over this rock.
Just thought the pool would be an easy and interesting method for the problem.

sirreal63 · 10/15/2012, 06:21 PM

The pool can have nutrients in it as well, much better to use clean saltwater and LC. GFO gets exhausted too quickly to be effective with high po4 laden rock. Porous materials tend to reach a stasis with the water they are in, so while you may remove the po4, you are potentially adding things to the rock that you don't want. The LC bath targets the po4 while not adding anything else to the rock. It's a better solution.

EdSnyder · 10/15/2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirreal63

The pool can have nutrients in it as well, much better to use clean saltwater and LC. GFO gets exhausted too quickly to be effective with high po4 laden rock. Porous materials tend to reach a stasis with the water they are in, so while you may remove the po4, you are potentially adding things to the rock that you don't want. The LC bath targets the po4 while not adding anything else to the rock. It's a better solution.

I understand GFO gets exhausted too quickly when po4 is bad. I did multiple waterchanges and had a mag 5 pump in the can for a couple of weeks. Po4 leaching slowed. Then I used GFO for a couple of weeks. It seemed to work. I let it sit for a couple of days with no GFO and got almost 0 on the po4 test. I figured it was time to put it in the tank. It looked great for a couple of weeks, then it started growing algae. It just grew on the rock at first, then it started showing up on my existing rock. The Pukani rock is obviosly where it is coming from. The thing I am afraid of, the LC will only take up the po4 the rock has released in the water in the brute can. Then it will start leaching again, and again, and again. How many times am I gonna have to mess with it?
The amount of water in the pool would eleminate the constant LC treatments and or water changes.
Unless there is something bad in pool water.....

sirreal63 · 10/15/2012, 06:55 PM

It takes a little time, read this thread it will show you how to do it the right way.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2145395

This method does work and is more wallet friendly than GFO and probably more effective.

EdSnyder · 10/15/2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirreal63

It takes a little time, read this thread it will show you how to do it the right way.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2145395

This method does work and is more wallet friendly than GFO and probably more effective.

Thanks for your advice. I know LC is the way to go. I am just lazy and would have really liked everyone to chime in and say throw it in the pool for a month. I will read your link, thanks again
Ed

OregonReefer2 · 10/15/2012, 10:44 PM

I treated about 100lbs of the Pukani in a Brute with LC. It was actually pretty easy

Dino · 10/16/2012, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirreal63

Ed, it's a spam bot, it posts part of a previous response, in this case one of mine. When you find them, report them, it isn't a real person, just a way to spam.

Yep, they're just spam. If you see them report them. Tell tale signs its one of these spammers is that their posts are just copy and pastes from previous posts in a thread, they registered in the past day and have 5-10 posts, and all of their posts contain what look like broken images at the end.

Digitalelectric · 10/16/2012, 09:17 AM

I'll chime in as Ive had experience with nutrient loaded rock. Got it from a store and grew hair algae like crazy.

1. Place rock in buckets and fill with tap water and bleach. 1:10 ratio is strong. Aerate with air stone. The aeration GREATLY speeds up the process. This kills everything.

2. Rinse the rock off and scrub bleached dead algae off, should slough off.

3. Get a trashcan from walmart and fill with RODI water. Soak rock in the RODI water for a few days. Be sure to aerate/aggrivate the water.

4. Change the RODI water and let it soak for another week and put some GFO in there. Aerate the water.

5. Should be good to go.

Just a note: The aeration of the bleach water does most of the work. The soaking is just to leach everything out of the rock.

GuvNa H2o · 10/16/2012, 10:17 AM

I say throw it in the pool, add some salt, a huge wave maker and just make your self a real saltwater tank!

tkeracer619 · 10/16/2012, 11:00 AM

I honestly would be surprised if your rock has much more to leach. It definitely takes longer then what you gave it during the curing process but at this point its been in the tank for 8 months it should have already leached out for the most part.

What does the tank read in po4?

What test did you use to determine that the pukani had 0ppm po4 before you added it? Most of the leaching occurs very slowly after the initial curing period and with a good amount of gfo to strip the water down it could take a few days for a normal test kit to show phosphates once the gfo is removed.

At this point I am not sure I would do anything to it other then remove it and give it a good scrubbing as well as keep up with gfo in the display. I really doubt there is a significant amount in the rock at this point to warrant removing the rock and retreating it. I would treat the entire tank with gfo as any phosphate that leached probably got sucked up by the rest of the calcium based rock in the tank.

Pukani is incredible rock but requires proper curing or you get this problem.

For GFO to be effective you need to drive the tank down to low numbers and then keep it there. This requires a test kit that can read down to low numbers so you can tell when the po4 concentration starts rising. I recommend a Hanna ULR 736 phosphorus checker.

EdSnyder · 10/22/2012, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

I honestly would be surprised if your rock has much more to leach. It definitely takes longer then what you gave it during the curing process but at this point its been in the tank for 8 months it should have already leached out for the most part.

What does the tank read in po4?

What test did you use to determine that the pukani had 0ppm po4 before you added it? Most of the leaching occurs very slowly after the initial curing period and with a good amount of gfo to strip the water down it could take a few days for a normal test kit to show phosphates once the gfo is removed.

At this point I am not sure I would do anything to it other then remove it and give it a good scrubbing as well as keep up with gfo in the display. I really doubt there is a significant amount in the rock at this point to warrant removing the rock and retreating it. I would treat the entire tank with gfo as any phosphate that leached probably got sucked up by the rest of the calcium based rock in the tank.

Pukani is incredible rock but requires proper curing or you get this problem.

For GFO to be effective you need to drive the tank down to low numbers and then keep it there. This requires a test kit that can read down to low numbers so you can tell when the po4 concentration starts rising. I recommend a Hanna ULR 736 phosphorus checker.

EdSnyder · 10/22/2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

I honestly would be surprised if your rock has much more to leach. It definitely takes longer then what you gave it during the curing process but at this point its been in the tank for 8 months it should have already leached out for the most part.

What does the tank read in po4?

What test did you use to determine that the pukani had 0ppm po4 before you added it? Most of the leaching occurs very slowly after the initial curing period and with a good amount of gfo to strip the water down it could take a few days for a normal test kit to show phosphates once the gfo is removed.

At this point I am not sure I would do anything to it other then remove it and give it a good scrubbing as well as keep up with gfo in the display. I really doubt there is a significant amount in the rock at this point to warrant removing the rock and retreating it. I would treat the entire tank with gfo as any phosphate that leached probably got sucked up by the rest of the calcium based rock in the tank.

Pukani is incredible rock but requires proper curing or you get this problem.

For GFO to be effective you need to drive the tank down to low numbers and then keep it there. This requires a test kit that can read down to low numbers so you can tell when the po4 concentration starts rising. I recommend a Hanna ULR 736 phosphorus checker.

The tank reads 0. But there is a good amount of algae, and I have chaeto in my sump. So I'm not surprised.
Part of the reason I brought this up is I have a friend who just got some dead rock and I thought the pool would be an easy solution for him.

10/15/2012, 07:59 AM	#1
EdSnyder Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Port Orange, FL Posts: 527	Curing rock in a swimming pool? Would this work? I have been fighting a battle with my pukani rock for some time now. I was thinking about pulling it from my tank and curing it again with lanthanum chloride. What if I just throw it in the pool for a month or so. It would be a lot of water for it to leach into, with lots of flow. __________________ "He worked really hard Grandma..." "So do washing machines." Current Tank Info: Changes Daily

10/15/2012, 12:33 PM	#3
EdSnyder Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Port Orange, FL Posts: 527	Sorry, maybe I shouldn't have used the word cure. What I am trying to do is remove Po4 from my rock. It has been in my display tank for eight months now, and it is obviously full of phosphate. lanthanum chloride is used in pools, to remove phosphate. __________________ "He worked really hard Grandma..." "So do washing machines." Current Tank Info: Changes Daily

10/15/2012, 05:52 PM	#8
disc1 -RT * ln(k) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 9,705	If it is pukani then the rock is definitely the problem. That stuff is loaded with phosphate that leaches I to the water. I wouldn't put it in the pool though. I wouldn't trust that water not to put something even worse I to my rock. __________________ David Current Tank: Undergoing reconstruction...

10/15/2012, 06:00 PM	#10
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	Why waste the life on and in the rock? Use the LC in a Brute container and remove the po4, there is no need in killing the rock completely. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

10/15/2012, 06:21 PM	#13
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	The pool can have nutrients in it as well, much better to use clean saltwater and LC. GFO gets exhausted too quickly to be effective with high po4 laden rock. Porous materials tend to reach a stasis with the water they are in, so while you may remove the po4, you are potentially adding things to the rock that you don't want. The LC bath targets the po4 while not adding anything else to the rock. It's a better solution. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

10/15/2012, 08:34 AM	#2
MrG Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 153	Can't say I'm familiar with lanthanum chloride, but my initial reaction was that this may not work or may have unintended consequences. I would be concerned with the pool water chemistry. Iwouldn't think the salinity of the pool would match that of seawather and therefore there may be no benefit from a bacterial growth standpoint. (and actually I would think the chemicals in pool water would be intended to inhibit bacterial growth) More importantly, I would be worried about what might get into the water and therefore into the rock. Sunscreen, runoff water from rain and the possible introduction of copper since the water used to fill the pool is probably not RO/DI. My gut is that you would be better served to cure the rock in a dedicated container of salt water or RO/DI water with a powerhead where you have more control over the curing environment.

10/15/2012, 04:27 PM	#4
Eric45 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 725	If the pool is in use, the chlorine would kill everything on and in the rock within a couple of days.

10/15/2012, 04:31 PM	#5
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Thats a first. May clean the rock wont solve the problem. If you solve the problem then theres no need to remove the rock. I guess your problem is algea? Well if so its not the rock. But with such little tank info then its impossible. Things like age , equipment , stock and amount of LR and Substrate? And water readings and not that its all good. What are you testing for.

10/15/2012, 05:43 PM	#7
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Like i said. This may cure the problem but not the source.........................

10/15/2012, 06:05 PM	#11
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Unwanted algea doesnt like normal water readings and good steady water flow. Cleaning the rock wont cure the problem.

10/15/2012, 06:55 PM	#15
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	It takes a little time, read this thread it will show you how to do it the right way. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2145395 This method does work and is more wallet friendly than GFO and probably more effective. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

10/15/2012, 10:44 PM	#17
OregonReefer2 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 324	I treated about 100lbs of the Pukani in a Brute with LC. It was actually pretty easy

10/16/2012, 09:17 AM	#19
Digitalelectric Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 422	I'll chime in as Ive had experience with nutrient loaded rock. Got it from a store and grew hair algae like crazy. 1. Place rock in buckets and fill with tap water and bleach. 1:10 ratio is strong. Aerate with air stone. The aeration GREATLY speeds up the process. This kills everything. 2. Rinse the rock off and scrub bleached dead algae off, should slough off. 3. Get a trashcan from walmart and fill with RODI water. Soak rock in the RODI water for a few days. Be sure to aerate/aggrivate the water. 4. Change the RODI water and let it soak for another week and put some GFO in there. Aerate the water. 5. Should be good to go. Just a note: The aeration of the bleach water does most of the work. The soaking is just to leach everything out of the rock.

10/16/2012, 10:17 AM	#20
GuvNa H2o Moved On Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 21	I say throw it in the pool, add some salt, a huge wave maker and just make your self a real saltwater tank!

10/16/2012, 11:00 AM	#21
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	I honestly would be surprised if your rock has much more to leach. It definitely takes longer then what you gave it during the curing process but at this point its been in the tank for 8 months it should have already leached out for the most part. What does the tank read in po4? What test did you use to determine that the pukani had 0ppm po4 before you added it? Most of the leaching occurs very slowly after the initial curing period and with a good amount of gfo to strip the water down it could take a few days for a normal test kit to show phosphates once the gfo is removed. At this point I am not sure I would do anything to it other then remove it and give it a good scrubbing as well as keep up with gfo in the display. I really doubt there is a significant amount in the rock at this point to warrant removing the rock and retreating it. I would treat the entire tank with gfo as any phosphate that leached probably got sucked up by the rest of the calcium based rock in the tank. Pukani is incredible rock but requires proper curing or you get this problem. For GFO to be effective you need to drive the tank down to low numbers and then keep it there. This requires a test kit that can read down to low numbers so you can tell when the po4 concentration starts rising. I recommend a Hanna ULR 736 phosphorus checker. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. Last edited by tkeracer619; 10/16/2012 at 11:05 AM.