Leak in Bulkhead / Joiner

joobie · 10/23/2012, 03:31 AM

Hi Guys,

Today I tested my Herbie style overflow in the Garage for the first time - it was bloody exciting!

I don't have a gate / ball valve at the moment so the siphon pretty much went at full capacity, until there was not enough water left in the overflow box and the siphon broke. Alas it was great to see partially work.

I had an issue with a water leak though, which appeared to occur very slowly (a few drops every minute) which came out from where the 45 Degree threaded connection goes into the threaded Bulkhead. Attached are two photos, one showing the overall tank (for those interested) and the other showing the specific point at where the water drops were leaking from.

The connection was very tight so i'm just wondering how I can resolve this in a very reliable way? I will be having the display tank on carpet in my living room, so I really want to avoid a leak.

Is there a method I can be 100% will seal these joints properly? I was looking at teflon tape and even thinking about silicon around the joints - but they all don't feel like i'm resolving the problem at the source and therefore don't feel that safe.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/89/tank1znm.png
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/tank2.png

Any suggestions? Thanks, Richard

fishyguy7 · 10/23/2012, 06:26 AM

since its a threaded connection it should have teflon tape on it. If you use the right amount of teflon tape the joint should never leak again

Lavoisier · 10/23/2012, 06:47 AM

1+ for teflon tape.

Hi Richard,

I know its not what you asked, so forgive my impertinence. Your plumbing may just be temporary, but your clear vinyl piping is going to be susceptible to algae growth on the inside, which will significantly reduce flow. You may want to switch to a solid vinyl or plumb with pvc.

billdogg · 10/23/2012, 08:29 AM

I prefer to use PTFE (teflon) plumbers paste on my threaded connections. Just a very thin bead around the male portion will spread out quite nicely and seal the joint completely.

I have to agree with the use of clear vinyl tubing. If you can switch to black vinyl it will be ok, but will still have a tendency to kink at any bend over time. Spaflex or ridgid pvc is really your best bet.

Lavoisier · 10/23/2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

I prefer to use PTFE (teflon) plumbers paste on my threaded connections. Just a very thin bead around the male portion will spread out quite nicely and seal the joint completely.

I have to agree with the use of clear vinyl tubing. If you can switch to black vinyl it will be ok, but will still have a tendency to kink at any bend over time. Spaflex or ridgid pvc is really your best bet.

Thanks, billdogg, I did not know PTFE existed. I'll have to try it on my next plumbing joint.

billdogg · 10/23/2012, 12:25 PM

HD/Lowes right next to the teflon tape.

joobie · 10/23/2012, 02:17 PM

Thanks guys for the helpful responses and Lavoisier, for shifting the thread into the piping discussion!

I actually was planning to use those pipes permanently, purely so I could see the water flow through the pipework. If it is Algae prone though, i'll definitely avoid it. Thanks for the heads up.

Is there an easy way to identify if the pipes are solid vinyl? The joins I have now are black and feel like they have very small hairs on them (not really hairs, but they are not as smooth as PVC). I want to avoid PVC ideally as visually I think the black pipes will look better in the living room.

Finally regarding the teflon tape vs teflon paste, I'm guessing the teflon paste is better? I already have some teflon tape, but not sure how many layers of that I should ideally put on the pipe to ensure it's a secure seal?

Thanks Guys, Richard

billdogg · 10/23/2012, 02:26 PM

Either the tape or paste can be used. I prefer the paste even though it can be just a bit of a mess if you use too much. The tendency with tape is to use too much. More does not make for a better seal.

The black fittings you are using appear to be ABS - nothing wrong with using it. You can find black vinyl tubing at both www.savko.com and at www.usplastics.com . If you want to go PVC but prefer black, krylon fusion spray paint is reef safe and has been used by many over the years.

billdogg · 10/23/2012, 02:27 PM

Either the tape or paste can be used. I prefer the paste even though it can be just a bit of a mess if you use too much. The tendency with tape is to use too much. More does not make for a better seal.

The black fittings you are using appear to be ABS - nothing wrong with using it. You can find black vinyl tubing at both www.savko.com and at www.usplastics.com . If you want to go PVC but prefer black, krylon fusion spray paint is reef safe and has been used by many over the years.

sleepydoc · 10/23/2012, 09:33 PM

which side of the joint to you have the gasket on?

As far as seeing the water flow, you generally can't see water flowing - unless there's algae growing on the inside! The algae growth will also significantly reduce the flow through the piping. I'd use solid white PVC or spa-flex (flexible) pvc. It's cheap, durable, and easy to work with.

joobie · 10/24/2012, 01:33 PM

I put a gasket on both sides. Originally I had the gasket on the inside of the tank only, but it was leaking pretty heavily so I put another gasket on the outside also which reduced the leak a lot, to where it is now.

The gasket does have a flat side and a side with 3 ribs - not sure if this really matters but I put the side with the 3 ribs against the glass. When you tighten the bulkhead though, at a guess I think the ribs on the gasket will just squash right down and be useless (they are very small ribs, maybe 1mm).

Hmm.. looks like spa-flex might come in black from some brief googling. I will have a look on the weekend locally to see if I can find some. I like the flexibility aspect of the spa-flex.

Thanks for the suggestions Sleepy & Bill.

billdogg · 10/24/2012, 05:11 PM

FWIW - the gasket needs to be on the nut side of the bulkhead, although having one on both sides won't hurt. Neither tape or paste will help if your leak is from there - in fact - you should not put anything on the bulkhead threads at all. It is the gasket itself that makes the seal. Make sure that there are no rough edges or burrs anywhere on the mating surfaces, and also make sure the glass itself is spotless. A single grain of sand can cause a leak.

10/23/2012, 03:31 AM	#1
joobie Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 47	Leak in Bulkhead / Joiner Hi Guys, Today I tested my Herbie style overflow in the Garage for the first time - it was bloody exciting! I don't have a gate / ball valve at the moment so the siphon pretty much went at full capacity, until there was not enough water left in the overflow box and the siphon broke. Alas it was great to see partially work. I had an issue with a water leak though, which appeared to occur very slowly (a few drops every minute) which came out from where the 45 Degree threaded connection goes into the threaded Bulkhead. Attached are two photos, one showing the overall tank (for those interested) and the other showing the specific point at where the water drops were leaking from. The connection was very tight so i'm just wondering how I can resolve this in a very reliable way? I will be having the display tank on carpet in my living room, so I really want to avoid a leak. Is there a method I can be 100% will seal these joints properly? I was looking at teflon tape and even thinking about silicon around the joints - but they all don't feel like i'm resolving the problem at the source and therefore don't feel that safe. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/89/tank1znm.png http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/tank2.png Any suggestions? Thanks, Richard

10/23/2012, 06:47 AM	#3
Lavoisier Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 1,030	1+ for teflon tape. Hi Richard, I know its not what you asked, so forgive my impertinence. Your plumbing may just be temporary, but your clear vinyl piping is going to be susceptible to algae growth on the inside, which will significantly reduce flow. You may want to switch to a solid vinyl or plumb with pvc. __________________ "...for it is not necessary that these hypotheses should be true, or even probably; but it is enough if they provide a calculus which fits the observations..."--Introduction (attributed to Andrew Osiander) to On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Sphere by Nicolaus Copernicus. Current Tank Info: 600g DT, 140g sump, 200g Cryptic, 90g Refugium, 3-400w MH, 2 Reeflo Barracudas, and 3 MP60s

10/23/2012, 08:29 AM	#4
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	I prefer to use PTFE (teflon) plumbers paste on my threaded connections. Just a very thin bead around the male portion will spread out quite nicely and seal the joint completely. I have to agree with the use of clear vinyl tubing. If you can switch to black vinyl it will be ok, but will still have a tendency to kink at any bend over time. Spaflex or ridgid pvc is really your best bet. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

10/23/2012, 12:25 PM	#6
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	HD/Lowes right next to the teflon tape. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

10/23/2012, 02:26 PM	#8
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Either the tape or paste can be used. I prefer the paste even though it can be just a bit of a mess if you use too much. The tendency with tape is to use too much. More does not make for a better seal. The black fittings you are using appear to be ABS - nothing wrong with using it. You can find black vinyl tubing at both www.savko.com and at www.usplastics.com . If you want to go PVC but prefer black, krylon fusion spray paint is reef safe and has been used by many over the years. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

10/23/2012, 06:26 AM	#2
fishyguy7 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Fort Collins,CO Posts: 426	since its a threaded connection it should have teflon tape on it. If you use the right amount of teflon tape the joint should never leak again

10/23/2012, 02:17 PM	#7
joobie Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 47	Thanks guys for the helpful responses and Lavoisier, for shifting the thread into the piping discussion! I actually was planning to use those pipes permanently, purely so I could see the water flow through the pipework. If it is Algae prone though, i'll definitely avoid it. Thanks for the heads up. Is there an easy way to identify if the pipes are solid vinyl? The joins I have now are black and feel like they have very small hairs on them (not really hairs, but they are not as smooth as PVC). I want to avoid PVC ideally as visually I think the black pipes will look better in the living room. Finally regarding the teflon tape vs teflon paste, I'm guessing the teflon paste is better? I already have some teflon tape, but not sure how many layers of that I should ideally put on the pipe to ensure it's a secure seal? Thanks Guys, Richard

10/23/2012, 02:27 PM	#9
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	Either the tape or paste can be used. I prefer the paste even though it can be just a bit of a mess if you use too much. The tendency with tape is to use too much. More does not make for a better seal. The black fittings you are using appear to be ABS - nothing wrong with using it. You can find black vinyl tubing at both www.savko.com and at www.usplastics.com . If you want to go PVC but prefer black, krylon fusion spray paint is reef safe and has been used by many over the years. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

10/23/2012, 09:33 PM	#10
sleepydoc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,907	which side of the joint to you have the gasket on? As far as seeing the water flow, you generally can't see water flowing - unless there's algae growing on the inside! The algae growth will also significantly reduce the flow through the piping. I'd use solid white PVC or spa-flex (flexible) pvc. It's cheap, durable, and easy to work with. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 120 gallon, coast to coast overflow w/beananimal overflow. Waveline DC 10000 II return pump, 40 gal sump, Octopus XS200 skimmer, T5 lighting

10/24/2012, 01:33 PM	#11
joobie Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 47	I put a gasket on both sides. Originally I had the gasket on the inside of the tank only, but it was leaking pretty heavily so I put another gasket on the outside also which reduced the leak a lot, to where it is now. The gasket does have a flat side and a side with 3 ribs - not sure if this really matters but I put the side with the 3 ribs against the glass. When you tighten the bulkhead though, at a guess I think the ribs on the gasket will just squash right down and be useless (they are very small ribs, maybe 1mm). Hmm.. looks like spa-flex might come in black from some brief googling. I will have a look on the weekend locally to see if I can find some. I like the flexibility aspect of the spa-flex. Thanks for the suggestions Sleepy & Bill.

10/24/2012, 05:11 PM	#12
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	FWIW - the gasket needs to be on the nut side of the bulkhead, although having one on both sides won't hurt. Neither tape or paste will help if your leak is from there - in fact - you should not put anything on the bulkhead threads at all. It is the gasket itself that makes the seal. Make sure that there are no rough edges or burrs anywhere on the mating surfaces, and also make sure the glass itself is spotless. A single grain of sand can cause a leak. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer