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Unread 10/23/2012, 12:57 PM   #1
eutimio
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Need help to get it right from the start!

Ive posted twice this similar post on this forum with no answer to it.

Ive got a 55G hex tank already set up in the day 3 of cycle with what appeared to be live aragonite with bacteria in the bag(not sure how true is that.)

Second of all-55 pound of LR

Im running a Fluval FX5 canister filter on the tank at the moment.
It is filled with:
-ceramic rings in all 3 trays
-filter pads in all 3 trays
-coarse sponges around the baskets/trays

I had this filter set up on my 150G fresh water tank but now is gone and I thought i might use it on this tank.

Should I take everything out of the canister and use it only for circulation?I think im gonna have a flow of around 800GPH in the tank(pump alone is rated at 925GPH or so.)

The protein skimmer will be added once the live stock is added.

Im currently quarantining a cardinal and a clown in a 10G tank with HOB filter filled with coarse sponges.Should i get a powerhead for added circulation in the QT?Also can I get more fish in that QT considering that they are fairly small?Im planning on quarantining for about 6 weeks or more.Ive got some PVC in the QT for them to hide in.

Also should I get a powerhead for the DT as well?LR is stacked on the back wall to the top hiding filter intake and heater.GOOD OR BAD?I would see a use of a powerhead to point towards the rock and clean the debris trapped under the pile when adding livestock as well as more circulation for corals.

Please point me to the right direction I am reading and reading day and night all sorts of threads in this forum and seems like theres just so information to learn its impossible to know it all in a short amount of time as a newbie.
THANKS
Here is a picture of my tank with the sand and LR stacked on the back wall and sides.



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Unread 10/23/2012, 01:07 PM   #2
wonderz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eutimio View Post
Should I take everything out of the canister and use it only for circulation?I think im gonna have a flow of around 800GPH in the tank(pump alone is rated at 925GPH or so.)
Yeah, you should take everything out of the canister to prevent build up later on. If you want to you can just run canister for circulation. I think most people just not use canister in general for their salt water tank

Quote:
Originally Posted by eutimio View Post
Im currently quarantining a cardinal and a clown in a 10G tank with HOB filter filled with coarse sponges.Should i get a powerhead for added circulation in the QT?
I think HOB will be fine, as long as you have some circulation going so the water doesn't go stale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eutimio View Post
Also can I get more fish in that QT considering that they are fairly small?Im planning on quarantining for about 6 weeks or more.Ive got some PVC in the QT for them to hide in.
Considering you will be QT for 6 weeks, I wouldn't put anymore fishes in your 10G QT tank. Plus you don't want to induce new fish half way into your QT. You should do them in batches. Finish with these 2 first, then after you move them to DT, then you can get some more for QT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eutimio View Post
Also should I get a powerhead for the DT as well?
more flow is always good, but if you are just doing fish only, then it doesn't matter as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eutimio View Post
LR is stacked on the back wall to the top hiding filter intake and heater.GOOD OR BAD?
That is fine as long as they don't fall over and crack your tank. Make sure they are secured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eutimio View Post
Here is a picture of my tank with the sand and LR stacked on the back wall and sides.
Looking good so far.


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Unread 10/23/2012, 01:13 PM   #3
gone fishin
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I would definately add a couple powerheads to get circulation and to try and keep the rock as clean as possible. I see the potential for a lot of dead spots without a powerhead although I do like the aquascape. Since you have not got to far in you may want to get a sump going to put your heater and skimmer in to. you must stay on top of the cannister filter maintainence. I would most likely ditch the cannister once your skimmer is up and running.

I would not add any more fish to the QT for a couple of reasons. one you don't want to overcrowd and also if you add more you need to restart your qt time due to new potential from the recently added fish. I would also try to put a small powerhead in the qt for some movement.


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Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT
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Unread 10/23/2012, 01:28 PM   #4
eutimio
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Thanks a lot for the reply .Does anyone think that a yellow tang might be pushing it in my tank along with other 4-5 fish that grow up to 3-4 inches?

Also I see mixed reviews on water changes while cycling.I recall a thread wrote by one of the mods that said WC can help big time with cycling diluting the organic waste of the LR in the process of curing WHILE others say its not a good idea at all since you will be removing bacteria from the water column(which is partially false since the bacteria is found in huge quantities on the LR and LS.)

Anyone that had real life experience with WC during cycle vs NO WC at all ?Im interested in the time it took to cycle.

Lastly,how often should i change water in the QT?I had some NewLifeSpectrum Cichlid formula pellets left and i fed the clown and cardinal those and they seem to enjoy it.Should I get something else for them?What in particular would be a good food?
Thanks and sorry for so many questions im 10X more excited about the saltwater project than i ever was in the FW setup.

TONY I just read your comment I dont have the space for a sump big enough in my particular setup ...The space i have under the stand is small and even if i could fit a 20G sump how do i drill the main tank at this moment?I was relying on a HOB protein skimmer and heard they work pretty well..Also you said you'd ditch the canister after the skimmer is introduced ...even with no media in it and used for circulation only is a bad idea to keep it up and running?Other than that what other advice do you have?Thanks



Last edited by eutimio; 10/23/2012 at 01:35 PM.
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Unread 10/23/2012, 01:39 PM   #5
Kyle918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gone fishin View Post
I would definately add a couple powerheads to get circulation and to try and keep the rock as clean as possible. I see the potential for a lot of dead spots without a powerhead although I do like the aquascape. Since you have not got to far in you may want to get a sump going to put your heater and skimmer in to. you must stay on top of the cannister filter maintainence. I would most likely ditch the cannister once your skimmer is up and running.

I would not add any more fish to the QT for a couple of reasons. one you don't want to overcrowd and also if you add more you need to restart your qt time due to new potential from the recently added fish. I would also try to put a small powerhead in the qt for some movement.
I agree. I have a 50 gallon tank that I am starting soon and was advised to not use a canister filter unless it is a FO tank. For a FOWLR or a RT, everyone here tends to suggest to not even bother with it as it can actually make things worse and put a higher bioload on your LR. The reason being is it creates extra maintenence because the filter doens't really remove any particulate matter, it just traps it until you remove it. A PS dumbs it into a holding zone, out of the water. It is similar to why many RT hobbyist don't use filter socks in their sumps...it just traps poo and your water is forced to run through that until you change it out...about every other day which is just extra work.

Also, with that filter, I doubt you will get 800 GPH after the water travels up into the tank. Powerheads are a must I would say. Not so much for water turn over unless you are looking to add corals to your tank as well, but really for reducing dead spots which will in turn keep your tank cleaner, especially the sand.


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Unread 10/23/2012, 01:59 PM   #6
gone fishin
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I personally don't think the cannister would provide much in circulation but I could be wrong. Powerheads will give you more bang for your buck and you can move them around to get the right positioning. As far as a sump you can get a HOB overflow box for the display tank, if you had the room for a sump.

I personally would not get a yellow tang for that size tank. There is a sticky that talks about tangs and tank sizes. Also, there is a sticky you can post in before you buy your fish. Snorvich is very good with the compatabilty of the fishes. I still use this sticky when debating a purchase.

As far as changing your water during a cycle I have always waited to the cycle was complete. You are correct the bacteria we are looking for is on the rock and sand. But, the food they need is in the water. So I figure a good way to keep them happy is to give them plenty of food so they make more little bacteria. Once the cycle is complete and before I add some livestock I do a water change and start my maintaionce schedule.

WC in your QT will depend on the chemistry in the QT specifically Ammonia. In a 10g QT things can go south pretty quick. So I would check ammonia a few times day or get an ammonia badge to stick in the tank for quick reference. I probably forgot some stuff but will check back later.


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Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT
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Unread 10/23/2012, 02:21 PM   #7
eutimio
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Ok the canister will be out today.
If I can fit a 20G sump in there,what type of HOB overflow should i look into?
Any special tips on that matter?
What about the powerheads?How much GPH should I aim for in my tank considering is a hexagon(25x25).
Will 2 Koralia's 6 work?or is it too much?Each is rated at 2200GPH.ShouldI look into a programmable powerhead to play with the flow or a simple one is good enough?
I am considering keeping corals and first I would have to look into a light fixture for them before getting any expensive powerhead like Vortech.
Currently I have a Marineland Reef Bright LED fixture 24inch long and it covers the entire length of the tank but its only 5 inch wide.
24 1W 10000K white LED's and 4 Actinic LED's.
.Will it be ok to grow some softies or LPS under the direct light?LED;s tend to have like a beam light effect and the shimmering effect is really nice.Should I be ok or not really?Later on i might be looking onto some VHO's or MH.
Thanks for all the responses !


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Unread 10/23/2012, 02:37 PM   #8
gone fishin
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I use an Eshopps on my 30. It has been a few years but I think the web site makes recommendations for tank size.

I got two koralia Magnum 7 in my 180 and it is a lot of flow. I would guess a couple koralia 1050's would be good. I have never had a hex tank so I am not sure of dimensins and flow patterns.

I have never had LED's. I use T5's so I am afraid I cannot be of much help there. I would not want to give you some bad info.


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Unread 10/23/2012, 02:56 PM   #9
coralsnaked
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Hello Eutimio

You

Also I see mixed reviews on water changes while cycling. I recall a thread wrote by one of the mods that said WC can help big time with cycling diluting the organic waste of the LR in the process of curing WHILE others say it’s not a good idea at all since you will be removing bacteria from the water column (which is partially false since the bacteria is found in huge quantities on the LR and LS.)

Me

Here are my thoughts on curing and cycling live rock. Curing live rock in your display tank is a no when substrate is present, especially sand. As the rock cures and releases the unwanted chemicals, especially PO4 the sand will suck it up like a sponge only to release it back into your tank at a later date. So no rock curing in the tank. Now cycling rock in the tank is fine. Once the cured and probably nitrified rock, depending on how it was cured, is placed in the display tank to begin the cycle with the substrate and water it has already released its harmful chemicals and is in a more purified state.

As far as cycling with or without water changes during the cycling process personally I obstain until the end results are achieved. The N cycle is a 3 part series of different bacteria. Stage 1.) = ammonia spike and the growth of bacteria which deplete the ammonia and in turn raise the nitrites. Stage 2). = when another bacteria depletes the Nitrites and in turn raise the Nitrates. Stage 3). = when the Nitrobactors deplete the Nitrates and the cycle is complete, leaving a population of Nitrobactors which over time will increase and become the bio filter we want.

At what point is it better to skim out the bacteria thru a water change? And what is the purpose of the water change? Remeber we are creating nitrifying bacteria thru the N cycle and not curing rock therefore needing to remove rock waste such as PO4. My answer is do not do a water change because it is not advisable to reduce the population of any of the bacteria during any of the stages of the cycle. If you perform a water change during cycle one and reduce the ammonia and bacteria feeding on it then you reduce the subsequent Nitrate population and the bacteria feeding it. And if you do your first or worst yet another water change here then further reduction occurs and if you do a third water change during the third cycle again another reduction in bacteria and food supply occurs. Any water changes will reduce the population of bacteria and weaken the end result of the cycle. Multiple water changes can actually cause the cycle to begin again, it is so weakened.

So it is not partially false because more than the water is nitrified. Yes the sand bed and rock are also hold Nitrobactors in the end. But everything in a marine system utilizes balance in the bio filter. If you are reducing the production of denitrifying bacteria in the water column, then you reduce them in the rock and substrate as well. And if you think about it, it is your water and surface area that holds most of the denitrifying bacteria anyway. You have a 55 gal tank with 55 lbs of rock (min amount) and what 20 - 30 lbs of sand. How much water does that displace? Maybe 5%. A pretty small amount of that displacement holds denitrifying bacteria. No more than the water volume for that space would hold.

With that said here is a great article for you to read that includes loads of more info on rock as a bio filter. I am certain it will give you some additional insight on this very important subject. One rock nut to another I suppose LOL

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-0...ture/index.php from RK Magazine

Merry Skerry



Last edited by coralsnaked; 10/23/2012 at 03:03 PM.
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Unread 10/23/2012, 03:47 PM   #10
eutimio
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Thats a very interesting post and indeed helpful.QUOTE"Rock that is naturally porous and relatively light weight for its size would likely have more highly perforated internal regions and would function better in this regard. ".QUOTE

Now im at least happy i found that statement in this article.Beside being full of slushy mushy organic matter, my LR was indeed too light for its size almost making me think that im paying 8$ per pound for rock modules made out of paper.haha
Thanks a lot!


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Unread 10/23/2012, 07:24 PM   #11
eutimio
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Also is it a bad idea to add a canopy to my tank?What are the drawbacks of a canopy?lights running too hot?Im pretty sure metal halides are out of the question here but what about the VHO's?


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Unread 10/23/2012, 07:37 PM   #12
chrisfont23
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Quote:
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Also is it a bad idea to add a canopy to my tank?What are the drawbacks of a canopy?lights running too hot?Im pretty sure metal halides are out of the question here but what about the VHO's?
I have a canopy. It has an open back so it's not exactly keeping all the heat in. I have retrofitted it w/ Ecoxotic LEDs which are fairly cool anyway. I would prefer it against a glass fitting lid since it still promotes gas exchange and adds a nice finished look to the tank.


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Unread 10/23/2012, 07:41 PM   #13
eutimio
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ya I think im going to build one ..it looks a lot better with a canopy on top..Thanks!


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Unread 10/23/2012, 07:44 PM   #14
hollister
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Dont count canister filter. Its rating varies to much. And the skimmer works great for breaking any surface tension. You want good steady water flow all around. From 2 powerheads on opisite sides. This keeps debris and fish waste from collecting on the bottom. Helps with good gas exchange at the surface , taking in oxygen and releasing nitrogen , and increases the effenciency of your best bio filters , your LR and LS.


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Unread 10/23/2012, 07:47 PM   #15
eutimio
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Whats a good HOB skimmer ?I will have to look for one soon..


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Unread 10/23/2012, 07:52 PM   #16
chrisfont23
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I have used both a Aquamaxx HOB-1 & a Reef Octopus BH2000


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Unread 10/23/2012, 08:02 PM   #17
eutimio
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which one performed better?reef octopus?


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