29 Gallon New Nano

[logos33]

Good afternoon,

I am new to this forum but I am not getting a reply elsewhere, so I am hoping that I get a response here.

A couple of months ago I started my first nano tank. I did a nano to get my feet wet, as it were. I purchased 29lbs of Live Rock, filled it with Live Sand, have two powerheads running over the LR and have an Aquaclear 70 to circulate the water (since I had a film starting to grow on top).

I went through the process of waiting and waiting and waiting some more. Then I sent the cleanup crew in. They were doing fine, everything was fine, levels were stable, salinity was perfect, etc. etc.

I then added a little firefish goby, and for about a month he was doing excellent. However, a couple of days ago I noticed his dorsal fin missing. The following day it looked like his tail was chewed up, and today, I can't find him. I fear he may have died and been scavenged by my hermit crabs.

That is another concern of mine, it seems, that my larger hermit crabs have been very aggressive towards the smaller crabs and towards the snails. In fact, it has appeared as if they have "removed" the snails from their shell, since I have been finding little circular pieces (best way to explain it) next to the snail shells. I hope they just moved up to another shell, but I cannot be sure. Besides, I often see the crabs trying to get into the shells of the snails and the smaller crabs.

I fear that my goby who used to love swimming freely in the tank might have had an encounter with one of those crabs. In fact, whereas he used to swim happily in the tank, and waiting for me to feed him, towards the end, he hid under a rock and would not come out for food. If he did, he grabbed it and quickly darted underneath the rock again.

I am not sure he is dead, but I have searched the tank and have not had any luck in finding him.

If anyone can offer any help that would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[that guy]

Your best bet would be to remove the hermit crabs. I've never heard of a hermit crab actively hunting a fish but they could be the culprits. Sleeping fish are vunerable so if he is attacking, he might do it at night. Watch your tank with a flash light and see what happens. Check to make sure there were no animals that came in on the live rock such as mantis shrimp. If you find a mantis though, do not try to catch it with your hand. If it's one of the larger clubbers then it could break a bone and if its a spearer it could give you stiches. There's lots of info on the interenet on catching them. Post what you find.

[logos33]

First of all, thank you very much for the reply. I have been going crazy these past couple of days and I have been completely ignored. Second, I looked everywhere for the fish and I cannot find it anywhere. There is a large hermit crab and I often see him trying to pop out the snails from their shells and I see him attacking the smaller hermit crabs. So, I am thinking he is the culprit. Also, since it is a nano tank, i didn't set up a sump and I am merely using an HOB for water disturbance and carbon. I have no place to put this crab, though I am tempted to throw him outside as far as I can and watch him play in traffic.

I was thinking I could put him in the filter, since all I have is a bag of carbon and some live rock, otherwise, I might talk to the pet store from which I got him and see if they will take him back. I don't know what the heck is going on but I have two hermit crabs, this larger one and a medium size one and they seem to be causing all sorts of havoc. If that is the case, I'm definitely going to remove them before I put any more fish in my tank.

Once again, thank you very much for the reply

[that guy]

If your going to bring him back the store will probably give you store credit. Make sure you ask about it because when I brought a firefish back because he was being bullied I had to ask or I wouldn't have gotten any store credit. Unfortunatly it may be too late for your fish but keep an eye out. You never know. Another solution would be a hang on the back refugium. I don't have a sump on my 38g tank but I bought a hang on the back refugium (volume 1 gallon). It works great and was only 25 dollars. I had to replace the pump on it though because whoever desinged it had the brilliant idea of making it pump water up the intake tube with an airpump. It didn't work at all. Here are the links for the pump and refugium if your interested.
http://www.amazon.com/HB-210-Finnex-...back+refugiums
and the pump
http://www.amazon.com/Rio-Plus-50-Aq...o+50+powerhead

[rivvir]

How big is your hermit can you post a pic

[logos33]

that guy: thanks, I may look into that refugium and powerhead

rivvir: I tried uploading a few pics but they keep failing on me.

[logos33]

OK, since I could not upload pics and everyone seems to want pics. I added a page to my blogspot. Everything can be found here http://reeftank33.blogspot.com/

[logos33]

That Guy, I have to be honest, I am not sure what a refugium is nor how to create one. I am actually not even too sure what it's purpose it for.

I am new to this hobby so everything I learn is definitely new.

Thanks

[that guy]

When someone creates a sump for their tank they can add a refugium. They will usually do this by sectioning of a portion of the sump. The point of a refugium is to put algea and live rock in it to act as extra biological filtration and so that there is something always using nutrients in the tank. For the purpose of your hermit crabs you could put a piece of live rock in there and since they eat detritus (that white cloudy stuff that comes up when you stire up the sand) it would get sucked up into the refugium for them to eat. I recently got mine because I bought a spotted mandarine dragonet who already ate mysis but added a refugium to breed copepods (tiny crustaceans) to supplement the dragonets feeding. Thats him in my avatar picture.

[logos33]

Oh OK, that makes sense! Thanks!

[AZ_reefer]

Convert your aquaclear 70 into a refugium and add a hang on back skimmer. For the conversion tips, there are plenty of DIY threads on this topic. Without the skimmer, I think you will have problems in the long run. Personally, I will not run a salt tank without one. The refugium.....that is your discretion. I like them. I always try to run one for growing cheato algae mostly.

Go with snails instead of hermit crabs as well. I prefer their level of service. I recently received a frag from a local reefer that had a huge colony of bristleworms in it and they are really great scavengers of decaying stuff. I have had the before and have never seen them harm my corals. There are bad ones though...so not to say that everything is reef safe, but at least they do not kill my fish.

Good luck. Is this your first salt tank or just first nano?

[AZ_reefer]

doublepost...

[Cooperdude916]

About the fire fish. I don't know why his dorsal fin and tail were pretty much gone but I have a fire fish in a 55 gallon and started hiding. I didn't see him for over a week so I thought he was dead and I replaced him with a mcosckers wrasse. Yesterday he came out after hiding for a week.

[NvyroMental]

Firefish are known to hide often. Mine hides in two different rocks in my nano but comes out in the middle of the day and when feeding. I find them very skiddish at times and easily scared. Every night when the lights dim, he immediately moves into his "home" for the night and doesnt move at all. He is healthy and had him over a year and have learned that this is just their normal behavior. Loss of fins, obviously, is not normal.

[logos33]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I appreciate them all.

AZ reefer: Yes, this is my first saltwater nano tank. I decided I would see how hard it truly was. It is a challenge, to be sure, but it is not as bad as people made it sound. In fact, when I asked a couple of fish places how hard it would be, they seemed to try to deter me, but, minus the incidents with the hermits, I enjoy it. Also, in terms of the refugium that is not a bad idea. Question though: what is a good skimmer? I have searched endlessly and the reviews always seem very mixed.

Cooperdude916 and NvyroMental: Mine was hiding in the beginning then he swam freely throughout the tank. It was only recently that he became very skittish and incredibly scared, as if he was being hunted, which is why more and more I am thinking the hermits are responsible.

Thank you again for the replies

[that guy]

Although I am not running a skimmer on my tank I'm going to add one very soon. There are several good models out there but I have been looking at the aqqua max hob1 skimmer. Seems to have had good reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/Aquamaxx-HOB-1...rotein+skimmer

[logos33]

So, I spoke to the pet store and they agreed to take the hermit crabs back. In their place I bought two ocellaris tank raised clowns. He said one of the crabs was, indeed, big enough to kill the fish and said that it happens more often than you think.

Once he saw the large hermit crab trying to attack the other crab in the bag, smaller but more aggressive, he realized what I was dealing with.

I had three hermits and got rid of all three. From now on I am only keeping snails, live rock and live sand and, of course, fish. I am forever done with any hermit crabs!

BTW, in the interim, I was able to keep the most aggressive crab in the Aquaclear and it worked fine, but i am not dealing with crabs any longer. Jerks!

If you are interested in seeing the new clowns, I updated my photos on my blog http://reeftank33.blogspot.com/

[AZ_reefer]

Originally Posted by logos33

Thank you everyone for the replies. I appreciate them all.

AZ reefer: Yes, this is my first saltwater nano tank. I decided I would see how hard it truly was. It is a challenge, to be sure, but it is not as bad as people made it sound. In fact, when I asked a couple of fish places how hard it would be, they seemed to try to deter me, but, minus the incidents with the hermits, I enjoy it. Also, in terms of the refugium that is not a bad idea. Question though: what is a good skimmer? I have searched endlessly and the reviews always seem very mixed.


Thank you again for the replies

For a hang on back skimmer..I have used my AquaC Remora with a Maxijet 1200 for years. It is a love hate relationship. Sometimes it really pulls out dark skim, other times it quits working and needs cleaning, sometimes the collection cup height seems off. I would try a Reef Octopus HOB (hang on back) RF-100 or RF-200 I think are the models currently, if I was going to spend money again.

For the used price, try an AquaC. Its not bad, but it will never be an in-sump quality product. It is a nano though and I had the Remora on my 50 gallon for about 2.5 years. I always wanted to try running it with a Mag Drive 3 pump. Still might. Cheap upgrade.

My AquaClear 70 is still sitting wrapped in the box. I have not had time for anything this weekend other than the obligatory water change and sand bed cleaning.

[logos33]

Actually, it seems, the BH1000 is the current HOB Skimmer http://www.amazon.com/Reef-Octopus%C...hu-rd_add_1_dp

[NvyroMental]

Hydor's Slim Skim is what i use and have been well pleased with its performance and ease of use. Its easy to clean and pulls some good stuff out of the water column. Unfortunately, its the only experience i have with nano skimmers.

Check it out:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4392+23714&pcatid=23714&r=414[/URL]

Of course, this depends on if you want a skimmer in-tank, or HOB

[logos33]

So, a little update. After the little incident with the hermit crabs, things were fine. However, lately, it seems, almost all my snails have died (this time the crabs had nothing to do with it) and my clowns seems to be swimming in a strange way, almost staying in one spot but "waving" their body. Ammonia was normal, Salinity was .024, but the Nitrates were very high. In fact, so high I couldn't tell if they were 40 or 80. I have never had such a spike in all the time that I have owned the tank. Will definitely do a water change and see what happens.

I am wondering though, I have been mixing my own salt with RO water whereas I used to use the preboxed stuff from Petco. Perhaps, I haven't mixed it properly? Perhaps, I need a real light as opposed to a Marineglo, perhaps, it is a combination of everything.

Any ideas, definitely much appreciated!

[OrionN]

When you mix salt, let it sit for at least 24 hrs before use it. Freshly mix salt is toxic to the animals. Why I am not sure but it does.
I would do a lot of water change. How much water do you usually change? How many fish in your tank and how do you feed them? Do you have a skimmer now? Do you have a heater in the tank? Often snail can craw on the heater, when the heater turn on it will kill the snail.

[rtparty]

Originally Posted by OrionN

When you mix salt, let it sit for at least 24 hrs before use it. Freshly mix salt is toxic to the animals. Why I am not sure but it does.
I would do a lot of water change. How much water do you usually change? How many fish in your tank and how do you feed them? Do you have a skimmer now? Do you have a heater in the tank? Often snail can craw on the heater, when the heater turn on it will kill the snail.

For almost 7 years I've never purposely waited to add new salt water. Mix it up and let it aerate. The only reason I've ever heard of letting things mix for about an hour is to let the pH equalize.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[logos33]

Originally Posted by OrionN

When you mix salt, let it sit for at least 24 hrs before use it. Freshly mix salt is toxic to the animals. Why I am not sure but it does.
I would do a lot of water change. How much water do you usually change? How many fish in your tank and how do you feed them? Do you have a skimmer now? Do you have a heater in the tank? Often snail can craw on the heater, when the heater turn on it will kill the snail.

It's my first tank and so I only have two small tank raised ocellaris clowns. I usually do a lot of water change, typically, given the size of the tank and I usually feed them a pinch of pellets in the morning and evening. I figured out how much to give them for them to eat all of it. I don't have a skimmer still, but I do have a heater. It is a fairly large heater too, in order to heat a tank to a steady 80 degrees. I also still do have some hermit crabs, micro crabs that are in the tank.

Oh, and I usually spend a good 20 minutes matching the salinity when I mix the salt and then use the gravel vacuum to aerate it, while heating it at the same time. It seems to have been working, and my fish aren't really affected by that, in fact, they are good after a water change, it's just the couple of days following when the Nitrates spike

Thanks again for all the replies

[logos33]

Alright, another update. I did a substantial water change, pretty much half of the tank, but, still my Nitrates are between 20-40. It's hard to get an accurate reading from the API chemical test kit. Also, I just noticed that all of the remaining hermit crabs (the micros) have white specks on them, almost like a little white glue dot on them (best way to explain it).

Oh, and the other thing I did was turn off my filter, AC70, since it was being used to stir water but had no media in it, apart from carbon. Instead, I ordered this to see if this might help and in the refugium I plan to put chaeto algae in hopes that that might lower the Nitrates. BTW, any idea where I get that type of algae?

http://badfishreefsystems.com/aquacl...a_racks_7.html

Thanks!