Tank from Hell

[fishfreak2009]

I have been having nothing but problems with my 187 gallon (60" x 24" x 30") Clarity Plus Acrylic tank for the past 8 years. I only have a few fish that seem to do well. The others all seem like they are thriving for a few months, only to have them die off one at a time within 2 months of adding them to the tank. I've tried basically every store for different fish and finally found 2 stores where the fish seem to be healthy. I bring them home and put them through 8 weeks of quarantine with prazi and cupramine and they thrive (putting on weight, keeping great color, etc.). After they get out of their 75 gallon quarantine tank they are added to the main display. Within 2 months of being in the display, most of the fish die. I don't understand it.

Nitrate is about 2 ppm. No ammonia or nitrite are detectable. Phosphate is pretty much undetectable. Calcium is 420. Salinity is 1.024. pH is 8.3. The temperature is 77 degrees F. I run a 55 gallon refugium/sump combo and a G200 skimmer. There are 4 powerheads in the tank (I had 5, but one day the shark was acting funny, bobbing around the surface. I reached in the tank and was sent to the floor after receiving a horrible shock. I removed the aquaclear powerhead and that ended that). Lighting consists of 2, 56 watt T5s, as well as 4, 80 watt T-8 bulbs.

Currently the fish are:
1 Pajama Cardinalfish (who looks pretty beat up, shredded fins, etc.) if I can get him to pull through I plan on moving him into a 30 gallon tank with the other small fish and making it a reef.
1 Ocellaris Clownfish (I had 2, but one was eaten by the anemone).
2 Striped Squirrelfish (which seem to be thriving, I think they pick on the PJ Cardinal though)
1 Blue Devil Damsel (who is small, been in the tank for a few years now, bothers nobody)
1 Yellow tailed Blue Damsel (same as the other damsel)
1 Purple tang (who has HLLE pretty bad). I moved him to the quarantine for about a month and a half and it pretty much disappeared, put him back in the tank and it was back even worse within 2 weeks)
1 Coral Catshark (a 17" beauty who bothers none of the current fish, although he ate my melanurus wrasse when the wrasse tried to steal a smelt from the feeding stick. He has been thriving in the tank, I actually got him from someone who had him in a 75 gallon for the past 6 years. They tore their tank down because they were moving and he spent a month living in an 18" x 18" cube. He eats just about everything, smelt, salmon, tuna, shrimp, squid, shark formula, etc. I also use vita-chem and am planning on ordering some mazuri tablets for him. He normally eats the equivalent of 4 smelt a day).

I also have a sebae anemone which is thriving (doubled in size to be larger than a dinner plate, and has eaten 2 of my fish now),a red spined tuxedo urchin (which has doubled in size since I bought it a few months ago), some texas trash palythoa and mushrooms (which I thought I had killed off when I took that rock and dipped it in boiling water filled with copper. Apparently they are pretty tough), and a neon green sinularia (which is doing very well.

Fish I have lost in the past month:
1 Powder blue tang (who was thriving, had been at the store for 3 months, went through 8 weeks of quarantine and got along perfectly with the purple tang, just was dead one morning on the powerhead, still fat and fully colored).
1 Melanurus Wrasse (which the shark ate)
1 Blue sided Fairy Wrasse (which disappeared)
1 Lyretail Anthias (which the anemone ate)
1 Coral Beauty (who I found floating dead today, no marks, perfect colors still, had been in the store 2 months before I bought it).
1 Banggai Cardinalfish (who just disappeared, I know the PJ Cardinal was picking on it though).
1 Female Ocellaris Clownfish (I've had her since I started this tank 8 years ago. I saw the anemone spitting out her skeleton the other day).
1 Sailfin Tang (who basically dissolved, no idea why).
1 Niger Trigger (just disappeared, never found a body or anything).

I think that's everything now. Sorry for the rant. I hope somebody can help me with the tank from hell.

[trinidiver]

You have a purple tang, squirel fish and a 17" shark in a 187 gal tank and you expect a sailfin tang, a powder blue tang anda trigger to survive. The bioload alone is hell. Much less you have a set of fish that has already set up terrortories and will either beat up or kill anything that tries to wander in.

[Ciscokid]

I was thinking stress could be an issue. They may may seemed fine because they weren't being chased all the time. Maybe the aggressive fish kept the other fish swimming more than they normally would, and mentally they couldn't keep up.

Either case it is expensively frustrating.

[auem]

@fishfreak2009,

serve you right.....
you keeps a 17" catshark in 187G(which again,in nature, is a night-feeder)...
i think it is having a good night activities in your tank....occasionally getting the better of weak fishes(weakened by fighting or by stress)...

[Flippers4pups]

I know that everyone is seems to be jumping on you for your selection of fish, but I have to say they're very right. Your tank is way to small for that shark and anything else thrown in there will suffer. Just saying.

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by trinidiver

You have a purple tang, squirel fish and a 17" shark in a 187 gal tank and you expect a sailfin tang, a powder blue tang anda trigger to survive. The bioload alone is hell. Much less you have a set of fish that has already set up terrortories and will either beat up or kill anything that tries to wander in.

All of these fish were quarantined together in a 75 gallon tank with no problems. The niger trigger disappeared before I added the shark, and the sailfin died before the shark was added. In fact I had the sailfin before the purple and the powder blue. The sailfin I think died because it had its fins all chewed up by a toby I had (and got rid of after it attacked and killed a bunch of fish). The purple was introduced to the sailfin in the 187 gallon tank, before I moved the fish into the 75 gallon to treat the purple's HLLE and the dissolving fins on the sailfin. The powder blue was introduced to the purple (after the sailfin had died) in the 75 gallon to help prevent either of them from having a territory in the 187 gallon. They seemed to get along fine in the 187 gallon, never fighting or even flashing fins at each other, grazing from the same sheet of nori, even schooling periodically. As for bioload, how is it hell? The tank is pretty much empty looking to be honest. 250 lbs. of live rock are in there and the sump (about half of it's in the sump), and water quality is great. There is another 55 gallons of water under the tank and a large skimmer. I also perform weekly 30% water changes. There is a massive ball of chaeto in the sump, and I plan on adding Xenia and Caulerpa prolifera to the display to help filter as well. I don't see how bioload is such a big deal. All of these fish besides the shark are or were under 4 inches (in fact the the tangs were the only bony fish larger than about 2 inches).

@fishfreak2009,

serve you right.....
you keeps a 17" catshark in 187G(which again,in nature, is a night-feeder)...
i think it is having a good night activities in your tank....occasionally getting the better of weak fishes(weakened by fighting or by stress)...

First off, why the hate?
Second, You realize I know this animal is a night feeder. I work the third shift, so I am most often able to view my tank at night to be honest. I feed him quite a bit. I know he is capable of eating some of the smaller fish and I know he has eaten some of them, which is why I am pulling the survivors out and putting them in their own tank, but he is not capable of eating the larger fish. He is much better off in a 187 gallon tank than in a 75 gallon tank (which he was kept in for 6 years before I rescued him). Hopefully I will be adding a white spotted bamboo shark to this tank as well. Once the bamboo gets some size both will be going into an intex pool in my basement (along with any tankmates they will have, hopefully tangs, the 2 squirrelfish a niger trigger, a miniatus grouper, a large tomato clownfish, and a harlequin sweetlips).

An acquaintance of mine runs an aquarium maintenance business. He seems to think the stray voltage from a faulty powerhead which I recently removed after being basically sent to the floor when I reached into the tank (causing the HLLE on the purple tang), combined with the shark and the anemone eating the smaller fish seem to be what is causing all of my problems. After all, the bigger fish and the damsels (which seem to be to fast and too smart for the shark or anemone to catch) seem to do fine (besides the HLLE on the purple tang which went away when it was moved to another tank with all the other fish, only to come back when moved into this tank with the stray voltage).

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by Flippers4pups

I know that everyone is seems to be jumping on you for your selection of fish, but I have to say they're very right. Your tank is way to small for that shark and anything else thrown in there will suffer. Just saying.

When I look at him in the tank he seems to have plenty of room. My rock is set up as 2 islands with space all around them, as well as being as open as possible at the bottom (he sleeps in the rocks during the day). At night he cruises through the caves, as well as cruising around the islands. He also swims along the front and back wall. He has an open, unobstructed swimming path all the way around the tank, as well as between and under the rock islands. He is able to easily turn around in the tank, which is more then I can say for most tanks that house bamboo sharks. I also feed him quite a bit. Most of the time (day and night) he just lays there. For now he seems to have plenty of space. He will have even more space in the intex pool once it is set up. This tank is much roomier than the 75 gallon tank he has been in the past 6 years (which was basically a rock wall filled with xenia and colt coral. The poor shark could barely turn around. The worse part is that they bought him at roughly the same size he is now).

[fishfreak2009]

Maybe I should just add a bunch of damselfish of different colors. They are fast, hardy, and would be much better off then most of them end up (cycling people's tanks).

[Alex T.]

You have a true, 17" predator in a 187 gallon aquarium with peaceful reef fish and you're wondering why this is the "Tank from Hell". These fish would normally hide from such a shark on the reef. The problem is that you've enclosed them in a rectangular box to let them fend for themselves. This would be comical if it weren't for your loss of livestock. You need to do more and less

You keep trying to make people see your point, but there is none. I hope you run out of expendable aquarium funds before you needlessly kill any more fish. Don't expect much love here.

[fishfreak2009]

So what do you think about putting the shark, the two squirrels, the purple tang, a couple other tangs (probably a yellow and a sailfin), and a grouper?

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by Alex T.

You have a true, 17" predator in a 187 gallon aquarium with peaceful reef fish and you're wondering why this is the "Tank from Hell". These fish would normally hide from such a shark on the reef. The problem is that you've enclosed them in a rectangular box to let them fend for themselves. This would be comical if it weren't for your loss of livestock. You need to do more and less

FYI, this shark was in with small fish for 6 years and according to the previous owner never ate any of its tankmates. He only started hunting his tankmates within the past week. I am removing all the small fish now. I have only had the shark with the other fish for about 3 weeks. As for the 8 years of problems, I've had everything from nitrate at 160 ppm when the tank first started and I had a company maintaining it (with only some damsels and 2 clowns), velvet and ich outbreaks (before I learned to quarantine), a 2 foot bobbit worm catching my fish at night, a stone crab catching my fish at night, a lunare wrasse and a toby that attacked many of my fish (I was told both fish were reef safe when I bought them), and a relative that decided they would help clean my tank while I was at school (and poured bleach into the tank, killing everything but the clowns).

You keep trying to make people see your point, but there is none. I hope you run out of expendable aquarium funds before you needlessly kill any more fish. Don't expect much love here.

I don't want to kill any fish, and had I thought he was going to hunt my fish I wouldn't have put him in the tank. I've seen multiple instances where fish such as anthias and chromis are recommended as tankmates for the coral catshark (since they mainly swim in open water and won't pick at the shark). Very few people seem to keep them. Did you notice I made sure I have no large angels or butterflies, or other fish that could pick on the shark in the tank? I was hoping to recreate a tank like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUCK4hTlA0

Now that I have him I plan to do everything in my power to keep him happy and healthy. I will put tankmates with him that won't get eaten, and won't hurt him. I have a 6'x2'x2' I can move him to if he gets too cramped in this tank, and if he gets too large for that tank then I can set up an intex pool (which I used to use for breeding freshwater stingrays) for him. Rather than rip on me, perhaps offer some suggestions for better tankmates?

I love my fish, and all my other animals. I am incredibly passionate about them. I would never do anything to purposely harm any of them. That's why I have 16 other thriving aquariums. It is only this tank that has given me trouble over the years.

[pledosophy]

Originally Posted by fishfreak2009

So what do you think about putting the shark, the two squirrels, the purple tang, a couple other tangs (probably a yellow and a sailfin), and a grouper?

I would say that tank would be severely over stocked as well.

You gotta ditch the shark, or go much bigger with the tank, more then double IMO. Maybe more then triple.

For a 180, I'd look at two tangs tops. Maybe 7 or 8 other smaller fish.

Your tank is to small for a grouper, you'd need to double in size easily.

I do not mean to be offensive if you are truly asking for advice. But at this point with what you are asking, I have to think you are just a troll looking to start a fight. You are that far off of being successful. I apologize if your looking for real advice, I gave you mine.

Cheers.

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by pledosophy

I would say that tank would be severely over stocked as well.

You gotta ditch the shark, or go much bigger with the tank, more then double IMO. Maybe more then triple.

For a 180, I'd look at two tangs tops. Maybe 7 or 8 other smaller fish.

Your tank is to small for a grouper, you'd need to double in size easily.

I do not mean to be offensive if you are truly asking for advice. But at this point with what you are asking, I have to think you are just a troll looking to start a fight. You are that far off of being successful. I apologize if your looking for real advice, I gave you mine.

Cheers.

Definitely not a troll. I just started this thread after thinking about what I have available to me tankwise. Think this is better? http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...4#post20983804

Here is a clip of my shark when I first got him (and had him in my 75 gallon since my 187 gallon was being re-scaped) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdWP6...ature=g-crec-u

Here is a video of my tank before the toby in the video went rogue and killed a bunch of the fish (this is before I got the shark, the powder blue tang, and the fish the shark ate). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUA6Ck78EfI

[jwoyshnar]

You will continue to get flamed until you get rid of the shark. Your tank is way too small for it. The 180 gallon will be too small too. You asked for advice and aren't liking the response. A lot of people are bothered by fish that are too big for the tank they are in.

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by jwoyshnar

You will continue to get flamed until you get rid of the shark. Your tank is way too small for it. The 180 gallon will be too small too. You asked for advice and aren't liking the response. A lot of people are bothered by fish that are too big for the tank they are in.

In your opinion the tank is too small for it. In the opinion of Scott Michael my tank is more than large enough for it. A coral catshark in a 6'x2'x2' tank isn't exactly overcrowding it (especially since it sits there most of the day and the night. I actually sat up and watched my tank the entire night last night. The shark literally got up twice, did one or two laps around the tank, then settled back into his cave.

I also find it funny that there is a different forum specifically for sharks and rays. The care sheet for coral catsharks was made by a member on here back in 2006. He recommends 360 gallons. If you go to another forum via a google search of coral catshark, he made a caresheet for the same species on there in 2007. On that forum he has 135 gallons listed as the minimum tank size.

I also have an intex pool I used for freshwater stingrays that I can set up for the shark if I think he seems uncomfortable, or if water quality begins being a problem.

[trinidiver]

somehow i realize you asking for advice on what to do then answering your question at the same time. If you know where you are going to put the shark and the rest of the fish, why ask us what we think? You're still not going to take our advice in any case.

[GPB]

My sense is you have a very odd collection of high bioload, and aggressive species confined in a relatively small area. Even the damsels and tangs can be aggressive in this amount of space. Throw in an apex predator like a shark and the stress on the fish would be high even if there were no outright predation.

Maybe you are just into predator, aggressive species fishes. That's fine. Just keep the shark on it's own or maybe add a single moray or something equally aggressive with it. Keep the true reef fishes on their own, but limit how many similar species you mix (tangs, surgeon fishes), it still is after all only 187 gallons of ocean.

Better to add another tank than another tang.

[Curious George]

I'd get rid of the catshark and then go from there in establishing a community of fish. People are telling you the truth, whether it's what you want to hear or not. You asked.

[gbru316]

You ask for advice, then argue that the overwhelming majority of advice given is wrong.

Either accept the advice, or stop wondering why you are having problems. Arguing with people who are trying to help is just going to ensure that people don't help in the future.

[rrasco]

Coral Cats really only need a few inches to turn around. They are also very slender and long. I wonder how many people giving advice on coral cats have actually kept one. Each fish has a different personality, but coral cats do swim around during the day too.

Having said that, you have to choose tank mates very wisely. Not only will they eat smaller fish, they could choke on them too.

[Shaummy]

I can't disagree with the consensus in regard to the cat shark, and I won't make another post just to say it again...

That said, I think it's easy to forget that for many animals (including fish) stress can be a silent killer.

Fish get stressed out..get weak, then something takes them out..maybe it's a shark, maybe they just succumb and end up in an anemone, stuck to a power head etc.. Fish don't have to be chased around 24x7 to get stressed out.

Sure..maybe the faulty power head was introducing voltage/current into your system...surely would have caused even more stress on their environment, so it's good you got that out of there.

If it were me...I'd let things stabilize and ensure that the livestock you have left start to thrive in your environment, in the mean time, you can start to get a longer term game plan for that shark.

I think if you go right back to adding more livestock, you will continue to see the revolving door effect you are reporting right now.

[Ostara]

Scott Michael's book is considered outdated and not a good source of information on tank sizes, as most of the sizes given in it are much too small for the species. Alprazo could give you detailed information on an appropriate sized tank if you are willing to listen.

You mentioned wanting to emulate the tank on YouTube, but that one is 360 gallons and it's work noting that yours would need to be about twice as large to do so.

[robs.mark]

mate you asked a question, recieved advice on the matter, and because it wasnt what you wanted to hear have dismissed every bit of it! the tank is too small, i have a 187 and wouldnt dream of keeping a 17" shark in it! lose the great white or keep killing fish simple!

[Alex T.]

Just from perusing the below chart, it's abundantly clear that large angels, groupers, eels, lionfish and another shark or ray are about all you could keep with any shark. It's also listed that the bare minimum tank size for any "legal" shark that we can buy is 180 gallons. Lose the shark.


http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/c...lity_chart.cfm

[fishfreak2009]

Originally Posted by Alex T.

Just from perusing the below chart, it's abundantly clear that large angels, groupers, eels, lionfish and another shark or ray are about all you could keep with any shark. It's also listed that the bare minimum tank size for any "legal" shark that we can buy is 180 gallons. Lose the shark.


http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/c...lity_chart.cfm

You do realize that large angels and lionfish are considered to be horrible tankmates for sharks (especially the angels). My shark is also a smaller species then those regularly sold on Liveaquaria.

Honestly I think the majority of my problems lie with the anemone. I started looking at older pics from when I added the anemone until today, and I realized 15 fish have gone missing (some of which I know the anemone ate) between when it was added to the tank in August and now (only 4 of which were in the tank when the shark was added).

I am pulling the shark out this friday, as well as both squirrels and putting them in the 180 gallon. As for the other fish they will be going into a 75 gallon to heal up (no I won't be medicating them). As for the anemone, it will be going into a 30 gallon by itself (until I eventually put a pair of clowns with it).

With everything out of the tank I will do a major clean up of the Sump (I know some gunk has built up in the refugium), clean up all the powerheads with hot lemon juice water, and siphon out as much detritus as possible.