Stray Voltage Kills More Corals and Fish

Charlene · 12/19/2012, 09:43 PM

When it comes to setting up an aquarium less thought goes into the 2 prong vs 3 prong outlet than just about any other factor. I would argue more folks worry about their Mag levels more than thier wiring. Truth be told, stray voltage kills more fish than most folks think and they are completely unaware that they have a problem. Aquarium pumps and other submersible components are built inexpensively. Test your tank!

ModAquatics · 12/20/2012, 06:44 AM

What is the correct procedure to test the tank?

gbru316 · 12/20/2012, 08:08 AM

voltage is a measure of potential energy. Every single tank will have a standing voltage. Hell, just about every ungrounded object we interact with has the ability to store a charge, including ourselves, which is why we notice static electricity. It's part of everyday life. Water movement in our tanks is enough to create voltage.

Potential energy doesn't have the ability to kill/hurt anything. It isn't dangerous until a path is created for current to flow. Current kills, not voltage, hence why a bird can land on a high voltage line and not get fried. It isn't providing a current path.

mcgyvr · 12/20/2012, 11:20 AM

oh boy... here it goes again.. Just let this thread die.

Charlene · 01/29/2013, 11:07 AM

Stray voltage is not safe though gbru316 is correct in that it's not dangerous until a path is created for current flow. The trouble starts when you stick your hands in the tank you can become the path.

I test with a volt meter by sticking one probe in the tank and the other in the top prong (ground) of an outlet.

calistyle · 01/29/2013, 02:32 PM

sometimes I feel like my aquarium causes stray voltage in my marriage...

calbert0 · 01/29/2013, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calistyle

sometimes I feel like my aquarium causes stray voltage in my marriage...

Well played

Bilk · 01/29/2013, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calistyle

sometimes I feel like my aquarium causes stray voltage in my marriage...

LOL

zachts · 01/29/2013, 07:35 PM

Properly wired GFCI Outlet and a grounding probe, every tank should come with one!

USAFReefer · 01/29/2013, 07:44 PM

Doesn't a grounding probe create a path to ground which is what harms the fish and corals?

westreef · 01/29/2013, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calistyle

sometimes I feel like my aquarium causes stray voltage in my marriage...

Mmmm.... yeah, it is a money sink-hole that generates plenty of frictions and thus static charges.

I am pretty sure my boss(wife) will never read this thread.

zachts · 01/29/2013, 08:50 PM

Yes, and that's why every tank MUST have a GFCI installed! it's the most basic of life safety issues for the aquarist and required by electical code! the ground probe creates path to the GFCI that is more conductive than me and thus trips the GFCI imediatly if there is ever any slight current leak (rather than me stiking my hand in and getting zapped). I've had fish break numerous glass heaters (before I found titanium) and several submersable pumps leak, trips the GFCI imediatly and never harmed a fish or coral.

mcgyvr · 01/29/2013, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

oh boy... here it goes again.. Just let this thread die.

I like avacado

zachts · 01/29/2013, 09:30 PM

mmmmm. guacamole, I have tortilla chips!

bnumair · 01/29/2013, 09:40 PM

2 words for yah:

RID-VOLT $12.99

oscarb · 01/29/2013, 10:01 PM

had the same problem put a ground probe and problem solved one of my reactor pump was the cause of it bnumair hit it right on the dot.

USAFReefer · 01/29/2013, 11:33 PM

Isn't that just masking the problem by putting a grounding probe in? If the pump was the cause, shouldn't the correct course of action to be replace the pump?

bnumair · 01/30/2013, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAFReefer

Isn't that just masking the problem by putting a grounding probe in? If the pump was the cause, shouldn't the correct course of action to be replace the pump?

that's true u should replace the faulty equipment as soon as you can but for mean while if there is stray voltage and you dont detect it for days and days it can be a silent killer and kill ur corals and fish.

BeanAnimal · 01/30/2013, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnumair

that's true u should replace the faulty equipment as soon as you can but for mean while if there is stray voltage and you dont detect it for days and days it can be a silent killer and kill ur corals and fish.

No!

If the potential of the tank is 10,000 Volts becuase the HOT leg of a high voltage line falls into the tank, the fish don't care and don't know UNTIL you add the "grounding probe" and provide the VOLTAGE with a path for CURRENT to flow. At that point you kill the fish.

"grounding probes" ARE VERY misunderstood by aquarists, as are most things electrical. A grounding probe should NEVER be used unless EVERTHING in, on, or around the aquarium is plugged into a GFCI.

You can't measure "stray voltage" (It does not exist) with a multimeter connected between the tank water and ground! The results are absolutely meaningless without considering (measuring) the current.

Charlene · 01/30/2013, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal

No!

If the potential of the tank is 10,000 Volts becuase the HOT leg of a high voltage line falls into the tank, the fish don't care and don't know UNTIL you add the "grounding probe" and provide the VOLTAGE with a path for CURRENT to flow. At that point you kill the fish.

"grounding probes" ARE VERY misunderstood by aquarists, as are most things electrical. A grounding probe should NEVER be used unless EVERTHING in, on, or around the aquarium is plugged into a GFCI.

You can't measure "stray voltage" (It does not exist) with a multimeter connected between the tank water and ground! The results are absolutely meaningless without considering (measuring) the current.

BeanAnimal is 100% correct. Thanks for the clarification. No doubt there are thousands of tanks with wiring deficiencies. I've got problems with my tank as well. My house is old and my living room has only 2 pronged outlets. Now my tank is blocking my access to the outlet! I'm going to have to fix it somehow. It will be a huge PIA to fix. Unfortunately life has a steep learning curve.

BeanAnimal · 01/30/2013, 05:20 PM

@Charlene

In my opinion, you really should skip the grounding probe. If you can't replace the 2 blade receptacle with a properly grounded modern 3 blade receptacle due to a lack of equipment grounding conductor, then your safest (and best) choice is to replace it with a GFCI recepatcle. If you can't get to it to even do that, then a cord and plug GFCI is your next best option.

Please let me know if that needs clarification or you have questions.

Charlene · 02/03/2013, 08:52 AM

@BeanAnimal Thanks. I plan on fixing the outlets in room at some point in the mean time I will get a corded GFCI.

nozleman · 02/03/2013, 10:25 AM

Does stray voltage in the tank kill SPS??? Lets here it!

BeanAnimal · 02/03/2013, 10:46 AM

There is no such thing as "stray voltage".

Voltage is the potential that drives current. If a voltage is present "in" the tank, it must have a path to lower potential for current to flow. Assuming that there is a path to lower potential, current will follow that path in proportion to the resistance of that (all) path(s).

Key point: Current does not take the path of least resistance, it takes ALL paths in proportion to their resistance.

So you stick a wire with high potential (voltage) in one side of the tank, and another with low potential (ground) in the other side of the tank. The water (and ihabitants) all have resistance in context to the high potential (voltage) and low potential (ground). Current will flow between the two points, using the tank water and anything else in the tank in proportion to its resistance.

There are too many variables to determine what livestock may or may not be affected by the current, as we can not easily quantify the current flow through them as their resistance is hard to calculate by itself. Add to the complexity, the fact that the position of the livestock in relation to the two points of potential (voltage and ground) and other conducting objects (salt water, rock, mineral deposits fish, coral and other organsims), and even rough estimations are almost impossible to derive.

Studies have shown that small currents (at varying voltages) can in fact be used to stimulate coral skelatal growth, and in fact the process is being used by some scientists to stimulate artificial reef growth. Likewise, it has been shown that certain levels of voltage and current can be harmful to the coral tissue and/or harmful to fish.

To repeat the key point: Current will follow ALL paths, in proportion to the resistance of the path. Trying to quantify the infinite current paths in an aquarium full of livestock is nearly impossible, so the answer to the question "Does current flow in the tank kill SPS?" is:

Maybe, maybe not. The question is too broad to answer and each specific example will be different.

12/19/2012, 09:43 PM	#1
Charlene Certified Reef Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Peoria, il Posts: 220	Stray Voltage Kills More Corals and Fish When it comes to setting up an aquarium less thought goes into the 2 prong vs 3 prong outlet than just about any other factor. I would argue more folks worry about their Mag levels more than thier wiring. Truth be told, stray voltage kills more fish than most folks think and they are completely unaware that they have a problem. Aquarium pumps and other submersible components are built inexpensively. Test your tank!

12/20/2012, 11:20 AM	#4
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	oh boy... here it goes again.. Just let this thread die. __________________ Who me?

01/29/2013, 02:32 PM	#6
calistyle Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,982	sometimes I feel like my aquarium causes stray voltage in my marriage... __________________ 75G Crystal D \| Giesemann Aurora Hybrid \| Apex G \| Nero 5s \| Tunze ATO \| BM Doser

01/29/2013, 09:40 PM	#15
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	2 words for yah: RID-VOLT $12.99 __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

12/20/2012, 06:44 AM	#2
ModAquatics Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 7	What is the correct procedure to test the tank?

12/20/2012, 08:08 AM	#3
gbru316 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lancaster,PA Posts: 1,720	voltage is a measure of potential energy. Every single tank will have a standing voltage. Hell, just about every ungrounded object we interact with has the ability to store a charge, including ourselves, which is why we notice static electricity. It's part of everyday life. Water movement in our tanks is enough to create voltage. Potential energy doesn't have the ability to kill/hurt anything. It isn't dangerous until a path is created for current to flow. Current kills, not voltage, hence why a bird can land on a high voltage line and not get fried. It isn't providing a current path.

01/29/2013, 11:07 AM	#5
Charlene Certified Reef Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Peoria, il Posts: 220	Stray voltage is not safe though gbru316 is correct in that it's not dangerous until a path is created for current flow. The trouble starts when you stick your hands in the tank you can become the path. I test with a volt meter by sticking one probe in the tank and the other in the top prong (ground) of an outlet.

01/29/2013, 07:35 PM	#9
zachts Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO. Posts: 3,259	Properly wired GFCI Outlet and a grounding probe, every tank should come with one!

01/29/2013, 07:44 PM	#10
USAFReefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 80	Doesn't a grounding probe create a path to ground which is what harms the fish and corals?

01/29/2013, 08:50 PM	#12
zachts Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO. Posts: 3,259	Yes, and that's why every tank MUST have a GFCI installed! it's the most basic of life safety issues for the aquarist and required by electical code! the ground probe creates path to the GFCI that is more conductive than me and thus trips the GFCI imediatly if there is ever any slight current leak (rather than me stiking my hand in and getting zapped). I've had fish break numerous glass heaters (before I found titanium) and several submersable pumps leak, trips the GFCI imediatly and never harmed a fish or coral.

01/29/2013, 09:30 PM	#14
zachts Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO. Posts: 3,259	mmmmm. guacamole, I have tortilla chips!

01/29/2013, 10:01 PM	#16
oscarb Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: el paso, tx Posts: 85	had the same problem put a ground probe and problem solved one of my reactor pump was the cause of it bnumair hit it right on the dot.

01/29/2013, 11:33 PM	#17
USAFReefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 80	Isn't that just masking the problem by putting a grounding probe in? If the pump was the cause, shouldn't the correct course of action to be replace the pump?

01/30/2013, 05:20 PM	#21
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	@Charlene In my opinion, you really should skip the grounding probe. If you can't replace the 2 blade receptacle with a properly grounded modern 3 blade receptacle due to a lack of equipment grounding conductor, then your safest (and best) choice is to replace it with a GFCI recepatcle. If you can't get to it to even do that, then a cord and plug GFCI is your next best option. Please let me know if that needs clarification or you have questions.

02/03/2013, 08:52 AM	#22
Charlene Certified Reef Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Peoria, il Posts: 220	@BeanAnimal Thanks. I plan on fixing the outlets in room at some point in the mean time I will get a corded GFCI.

02/03/2013, 10:25 AM	#23
nozleman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Camarillo, ca Posts: 208	Does stray voltage in the tank kill SPS??? Lets here it!

02/03/2013, 10:46 AM	#24
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	There is no such thing as "stray voltage". Voltage is the potential that drives current. If a voltage is present "in" the tank, it must have a path to lower potential for current to flow. Assuming that there is a path to lower potential, current will follow that path in proportion to the resistance of that (all) path(s). Key point: Current does not take the path of least resistance, it takes ALL paths in proportion to their resistance. So you stick a wire with high potential (voltage) in one side of the tank, and another with low potential (ground) in the other side of the tank. The water (and ihabitants) all have resistance in context to the high potential (voltage) and low potential (ground). Current will flow between the two points, using the tank water and anything else in the tank in proportion to its resistance. There are too many variables to determine what livestock may or may not be affected by the current, as we can not easily quantify the current flow through them as their resistance is hard to calculate by itself. Add to the complexity, the fact that the position of the livestock in relation to the two points of potential (voltage and ground) and other conducting objects (salt water, rock, mineral deposits fish, coral and other organsims), and even rough estimations are almost impossible to derive. Studies have shown that small currents (at varying voltages) can in fact be used to stimulate coral skelatal growth, and in fact the process is being used by some scientists to stimulate artificial reef growth. Likewise, it has been shown that certain levels of voltage and current can be harmful to the coral tissue and/or harmful to fish. To repeat the key point: Current will follow ALL paths, in proportion to the resistance of the path. Trying to quantify the infinite current paths in an aquarium full of livestock is nearly impossible, so the answer to the question "Does current flow in the tank kill SPS?" is: Maybe, maybe not. The question is too broad to answer and each specific example will be different.