gguertin's 180g In Wall Build

gguertin · 01/06/2013, 11:18 PM

My wife and I finally got a house and are now done moving my 125 from apartment to apartment! One of the first things on the list was building a new tank that is intended on being my final build... Somehow I always find a way to get a new tank every few years but I think putting it in the wall will make it a little more challenging to change.

I have been working on this for 1 week now and thought it was about time to start a build thread to see if there are any other ideas people may have for this

Unfortunately I managed to drill my first tank at the wrong height causing a small setback but I have a second one showing up on Tuesday hoping to move forward with the overflow and plumbing to the sump.

Pictures will come soon!

gguertin · 01/06/2013, 11:33 PM

A picture of the hole drawn on the wall before any cutting. I was looking for placement and chose 43" high from the floor giving me plenty of room for my sump and hopefully the ability to put a small bar as a ledge in front of the tank on the finished side of the room.

gguertin · 01/06/2013, 11:38 PM

Here is a picture of the wall coming down

Here is a picture of the sheetrock removed on the back side

gguertin · 01/06/2013, 11:44 PM

Here is my dad scoring the sheetrock so that we can open up the hole without having to remove the hole wall of sheetrock on the finished side of the tank.

gguertin · 01/06/2013, 11:50 PM

The sheet rock removed... We now have a hole in the wall of our basement

Here we cutout the studs

This wall is not a load bearing wall but just because I wanted to be safe we framed it in like a window of a load bearing wall

gguertin · 01/06/2013, 11:53 PM

A picture of the help

gguertin · 01/06/2013, 11:58 PM

Legs of the stand going in

Here I am putting the top of the stand on and trying to level as much as possible

Here is a picture of the layout of the stand.

Here we are adding the support for the sump under the plywood bottom and the plywood for the bottom. I thought about not doing this and putting it right on the concrete but I was worried in the winter it would be difficult to keep the tank up to temperature and I like that it would be easier to pull my sump out in the future for rebuilts.

gguertin · 01/07/2013, 12:02 AM

Started on my sump. I was looking for a sump that will be easy to do work with. I have used sumps that were longer but also narrower and higher making it more challenging to do the work that is sometimes needed. I decided on a 40g breeder tank to start with for this build. I am looking at a algae turf scrubber hoping to limit some water changes and possibly remove the skimmer from the mix. I will be running a Calcium reactor so I will need room for that but otherwise this should be pretty simple just heaters, probes, and turf scrubber.

gguertin · 01/07/2013, 12:03 AM

dup

cjeffers88 · 01/07/2013, 12:56 AM

That is awesome that your family is helping you! My bfs family thinks we already have too many tanks as is >.<

Motish · 01/07/2013, 01:01 AM

good luck! waiting for your progress pics...

sabbath · 01/07/2013, 05:10 AM

DP

Oh RC servers.... I think RC needs to start charging a little to every body and get real servers!

sabbath · 01/07/2013, 05:11 AM

I'm famous.Great to see you finally getting your in wall aquarium setup!!! This is going to be fun to see it progress.

Have you decided to cure any live rock in buckets before you start it?

Floyd R Turbo · 01/07/2013, 10:08 AM

Tagging along - I love in-wall builds. Was going to do one myself but it's too much to do lately...

gguertin · 01/07/2013, 01:47 PM

I will likely start something for the live rock next week. I did get my Calcium reactor last night though

Plans still for this week are
1. Getting the stand painted in an attempt to protect the wood a little if it ever got wet
2. Getting the new tank
3. Drilling the new tank correctly this time
4. Replacing 1 chamber on rodi and hanging it on the wall

I did hear an interesting tid bit yesterday from a local club member that has a well and septic system like me. He mentioned that running his rodi directly to the tank will causes his di resin to go bad after just 2 weeks... But if he runs it to an auto top off bucket and turns it on manually or with a timer he can make it a month and a half... Since I also have a well and septic system here I am probably going to change from running directly to the tank like I had planned to filling some sort of reservoir.

Floyd R Turbo · 01/07/2013, 02:49 PM

I read something about well water and RO systems - just wanted to make sure you have this covered.

They make different membranes for city water (chlorinated) vs untreated well water. This may be a factor.

If you plumb an RO system direct to the tank such that it will produce small amounts of water at a time (employing the use of an float valve in the sump) then this is your problem. What happens is that when the RO membrane is sitting in stagnant water (no supply pressure since float switch has shut off supply) the ions have time to migrate across the membrane. Normally in a running system, the ions do not have enough time to make it through. So what happens is that you get a rush of super high TDS water out of your effluent line from the RO straight into the DI every time it turns on, and this lasts for 5-30 or more seconds. so you can see the problem here.

Try it once. Get a TDS meter and let your RO sit unused for a day or two. Then turn it on and put the meter in a little 4-6 oz collection cup and watch the TDS start out high (mine goes up to 150 or more) then pour it out and let it fill again, over and over, and see how long it takes to flush down to <20 ppm. Mine takes 2 or 3 minutes.

So then what you do it install a membrane flusher, which you can buy at BRS but you can make your own too. All this is is a couple tees and a valve that allow you to bypass the flow restrictor on the waste line and allow the stagnant water to get flushed out of the housing. Run that for 30 seconds, then run out the effluent for 15 seconds and it will be better than your TDS after 2-3 minutes without flushing.

So now that you have your TDS <20 (or <10 preferrably) then you run it through your DI - and it will last much, much longer.

Another comment about well water (I grew up in Wayzata in a little neighborhood that had well water) you might want to add a couple additional pre-filter stages to really squeeze out the iron and other particles, if you don't already.

gguertin · 01/07/2013, 03:22 PM

I talked with the filter guys in Duluth and got their well water setup... Hopefully I got the right membrane it is a tw30-1812-75

I am looking at adding an additional whole house filter and I have a 5 stage rodi.

Is there a way to automate flushing the first 15 seconds or so of water? Would be pretty nice to be able to have my rodi run straight to the tank but if not I will build a water storage tank and just turn the rodi on and off when I want to fill the tank.

sabbath · 01/07/2013, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gguertin

I did hear an interesting tid bit yesterday from a local club member that has a well and septic system like me. He mentioned that running his rodi directly to the tank will causes his di resin to go bad after just 2 weeks... But if he runs it to an auto top off bucket and turns it on manually or with a timer he can make it a month and a half... Since I also have a well and septic system here I am probably going to change from running directly to the tank like I had planned to filling some sort of reservoir.

I have my RODI going directly into my sump. What I did was add a simple wall timer to the output with a soleniod valve. It is set to only run my ATO for 30minutes max every 6 hours. This way it does not short cycle. I also added a hi limit float switch in series with the timer. This acts as a fail safe if the sump level raises above normal. Now I don't need the extra ATO container.

sabbath · 01/07/2013, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gguertin

I talked with the filter guys in Duluth and got their well water setup... Hopefully I got the right membrane it is a tw30-1812-75

I am looking at adding an additional whole house filter and I have a 5 stage rodi.

Is there a way to automate flushing the first 15 seconds or so of water? Would be pretty nice to be able to have my rodi run straight to the tank but if not I will build a water storage tank and just turn the rodi on and off when I want to fill the tank.

Yes easy. You will need a delay timer relay and another solenoid valve and connect the output to a drain. So when your timer kicks in to ATO. The first 15sec opens the bypass valve and then it switches in 15secs to your 2nd ATO solenoid valve for the remainder of your timers on setting. I think I have a couple delay relays around (I can look) if you want one for this.

Floyd R Turbo · 01/07/2013, 05:23 PM

I would be interested in hearing how to do this simply also. Not to throw this thread OT too much but here is a more complicated method:

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/a...on-system.aspx

sabbath · 01/07/2013, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

I would be interested in hearing how to do this simply also. Not to throw this thread OT too much but here is a more complicated method:

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/a...on-system.aspx

Wow I just took a glace at that page! Ufda Now look what you started. Oh boy . I thought I was done automating my setup.

A delay relay is wired like all relays. It just has an adjustment dial that you set to change state when it is powered on or off. So if it is set for say 15secs. When you power it on it will change to open or closed the contacts after the time is reached. In the example ATO I gave you would want a DPDT ( Double pole Double throw) This way it can do 2 things at the same time. Like when one contact is on the other is off.

Floyd R Turbo · 01/07/2013, 06:27 PM

Hah I've been working on a relay control schematic for a wastewater lift station recently (EE is my job) so it's funny how things cross over in life

sabbath · 01/07/2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

Hah I've been working on a relay control schematic for a wastewater lift station recently (EE is my job) so it's funny how things cross over in life

Cool. I'm an Electrician that gets to wire up the stuff that you guys ask for. The last 11 years it has been primarily Building Automation. People wanting to control Mechanical equipment, Temp HVAC, lights etc with there PC's.

I wonder how important it is to flush the DI if I'm running it every 6hrs. Is the TDS creeping up on it already?

gguertin · 01/07/2013, 09:04 PM

Sabbath's way seems to make sense? BeanAnimal's way looks really cool but way beyond what I have time to work with right now... I need the cliff notes version lol

gguertin · 01/08/2013, 10:33 PM

Drilled the new tank today

01/06/2013, 11:18 PM	#1
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	gguertin's 180g In Wall Build My wife and I finally got a house and are now done moving my 125 from apartment to apartment! One of the first things on the list was building a new tank that is intended on being my final build... Somehow I always find a way to get a new tank every few years but I think putting it in the wall will make it a little more challenging to change. I have been working on this for 1 week now and thought it was about time to start a build thread to see if there are any other ideas people may have for this Unfortunately I managed to drill my first tank at the wrong height causing a small setback but I have a second one showing up on Tuesday hoping to move forward with the overflow and plumbing to the sump. Pictures will come soon!

01/07/2013, 05:10 AM	#12
sabbath Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Twin City's Mn. Posts: 1,771	DP Oh RC servers.... I think RC needs to start charging a little to every body and get real servers! Last edited by sabbath; 01/07/2013 at 05:16 AM. Reason: server messed up and DP

01/07/2013, 05:11 AM	#13
sabbath Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Twin City's Mn. Posts: 1,771	The new in wall yeah! I'm famous.Great to see you finally getting your in wall aquarium setup!!! This is going to be fun to see it progress. Have you decided to cure any live rock in buckets before you start it?

01/07/2013, 10:08 AM	#14
Floyd R Turbo Either busy or sleeping Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: West Des Moines, IA Posts: 4,265 Blog Entries: 15	Tagging along - I love in-wall builds. Was going to do one myself but it's too much to do lately... __________________ Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho" General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky) --> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729

01/07/2013, 02:49 PM	#16
Floyd R Turbo Either busy or sleeping Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: West Des Moines, IA Posts: 4,265 Blog Entries: 15	I read something about well water and RO systems - just wanted to make sure you have this covered. They make different membranes for city water (chlorinated) vs untreated well water. This may be a factor. If you plumb an RO system direct to the tank such that it will produce small amounts of water at a time (employing the use of an float valve in the sump) then this is your problem. What happens is that when the RO membrane is sitting in stagnant water (no supply pressure since float switch has shut off supply) the ions have time to migrate across the membrane. Normally in a running system, the ions do not have enough time to make it through. So what happens is that you get a rush of super high TDS water out of your effluent line from the RO straight into the DI every time it turns on, and this lasts for 5-30 or more seconds. so you can see the problem here. Try it once. Get a TDS meter and let your RO sit unused for a day or two. Then turn it on and put the meter in a little 4-6 oz collection cup and watch the TDS start out high (mine goes up to 150 or more) then pour it out and let it fill again, over and over, and see how long it takes to flush down to <20 ppm. Mine takes 2 or 3 minutes. So then what you do it install a membrane flusher, which you can buy at BRS but you can make your own too. All this is is a couple tees and a valve that allow you to bypass the flow restrictor on the waste line and allow the stagnant water to get flushed out of the housing. Run that for 30 seconds, then run out the effluent for 15 seconds and it will be better than your TDS after 2-3 minutes without flushing. So now that you have your TDS <20 (or <10 preferrably) then you run it through your DI - and it will last much, much longer. Another comment about well water (I grew up in Wayzata in a little neighborhood that had well water) you might want to add a couple additional pre-filter stages to really squeeze out the iron and other particles, if you don't already. __________________ Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho" General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky) --> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729

01/06/2013, 11:33 PM	#2
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	A picture of the hole drawn on the wall before any cutting. I was looking for placement and chose 43" high from the floor giving me plenty of room for my sump and hopefully the ability to put a small bar as a ledge in front of the tank on the finished side of the room.

01/06/2013, 11:38 PM	#3
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	Here is a picture of the wall coming down Here is a picture of the sheetrock removed on the back side

01/06/2013, 11:44 PM	#4
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	Here is my dad scoring the sheetrock so that we can open up the hole without having to remove the hole wall of sheetrock on the finished side of the tank.

01/06/2013, 11:50 PM	#5
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	The sheet rock removed... We now have a hole in the wall of our basement Here we cutout the studs This wall is not a load bearing wall but just because I wanted to be safe we framed it in like a window of a load bearing wall

01/06/2013, 11:53 PM	#6
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	A picture of the help

01/06/2013, 11:58 PM	#7
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	Legs of the stand going in Here I am putting the top of the stand on and trying to level as much as possible Here is a picture of the layout of the stand. Here we are adding the support for the sump under the plywood bottom and the plywood for the bottom. I thought about not doing this and putting it right on the concrete but I was worried in the winter it would be difficult to keep the tank up to temperature and I like that it would be easier to pull my sump out in the future for rebuilts.

01/07/2013, 12:02 AM	#8
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	Started on my sump. I was looking for a sump that will be easy to do work with. I have used sumps that were longer but also narrower and higher making it more challenging to do the work that is sometimes needed. I decided on a 40g breeder tank to start with for this build. I am looking at a algae turf scrubber hoping to limit some water changes and possibly remove the skimmer from the mix. I will be running a Calcium reactor so I will need room for that but otherwise this should be pretty simple just heaters, probes, and turf scrubber.

01/07/2013, 12:03 AM	#9
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	dup

01/07/2013, 12:56 AM	#10
cjeffers88 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 8	That is awesome that your family is helping you! My bfs family thinks we already have too many tanks as is >.<

01/07/2013, 01:01 AM	#11
Motish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 148	good luck! waiting for your progress pics...

01/07/2013, 01:47 PM	#15
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	I will likely start something for the live rock next week. I did get my Calcium reactor last night though Plans still for this week are 1. Getting the stand painted in an attempt to protect the wood a little if it ever got wet 2. Getting the new tank 3. Drilling the new tank correctly this time 4. Replacing 1 chamber on rodi and hanging it on the wall I did hear an interesting tid bit yesterday from a local club member that has a well and septic system like me. He mentioned that running his rodi directly to the tank will causes his di resin to go bad after just 2 weeks... But if he runs it to an auto top off bucket and turns it on manually or with a timer he can make it a month and a half... Since I also have a well and septic system here I am probably going to change from running directly to the tank like I had planned to filling some sort of reservoir.

01/07/2013, 03:22 PM	#17
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	I talked with the filter guys in Duluth and got their well water setup... Hopefully I got the right membrane it is a tw30-1812-75 I am looking at adding an additional whole house filter and I have a 5 stage rodi. Is there a way to automate flushing the first 15 seconds or so of water? Would be pretty nice to be able to have my rodi run straight to the tank but if not I will build a water storage tank and just turn the rodi on and off when I want to fill the tank.

01/07/2013, 05:23 PM	#20
Floyd R Turbo Either busy or sleeping Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: West Des Moines, IA Posts: 4,265 Blog Entries: 15	I would be interested in hearing how to do this simply also. Not to throw this thread OT too much but here is a more complicated method: http://www.beananimal.com/projects/a...on-system.aspx __________________ Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho" General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky) --> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729

01/07/2013, 06:27 PM	#22
Floyd R Turbo Either busy or sleeping Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: West Des Moines, IA Posts: 4,265 Blog Entries: 15	Hah I've been working on a relay control schematic for a wastewater lift station recently (EE is my job) so it's funny how things cross over in life __________________ Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho" General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky) --> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729

01/07/2013, 09:04 PM	#24
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	Sabbath's way seems to make sense? BeanAnimal's way looks really cool but way beyond what I have time to work with right now... I need the cliff notes version lol

01/08/2013, 10:33 PM	#25
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	Drilled the new tank today