Water change vs dosing

simpp88 · 02/09/2013, 09:08 PM

Is it reasonable to rely on frequent large water changes soley (say around 20% weekly) rather than two part dosing, kalkwasser or a calcium reactor?

nynick · 02/09/2013, 09:33 PM

Depends on what you have in your tank. If softies, probably yes, but your coralline might grow slowly. If you have a lot of hard corals/clams you might need , Kalk, 2 part, calcium reactor AND 20% water changes just to keep up

Kalkwasser is always a good idea though. Cheap and good in many ways and no down sides I can think of. If you over dose it becomes sand and it helps keep phosphates down to boot...this stuff is a miracle for 10 bucks a year. Also, you are gonna need top off water anyway.....might as well make it kalk.

bnumair · 02/10/2013, 12:21 AM

there is no way to replace or i should say keep up the parameters of cal and alk and mag in an established reef by just 20% weekly water changes.
in order to accomplish that you will need to do almost 50-60% water change per day.

Occane5 · 02/10/2013, 10:13 PM

As stated above, it really depends on what types of corals you have. I do 20% weekly water changes and still dose 2-part....granted, I have an SPS dominant tank.

msaba · 02/10/2013, 10:18 PM

Simpp88,

as others say, 'it all depends'. Best way is to check your parameters weekly and you will know for sure. I know some successful mixed reefs that do JUST water changes (a minority for sure) but I would add to me this reinforces the concept that the most important element of all water chemistry is stability!

Mark

Bpb · 02/10/2013, 11:21 PM

I have a 55 gallon with a handful of sps frags and some annoying halimeda algae and do 10% wc a week. I had to start dosing kalkwasser as my topoff water to maintain calcium and alk. Without it, I was losing about 10 ppm calcium, and about 0.25 dKH a day. Over 7 days thats alot. And imagine if I miss a water change. I have found a good mixture of kalk to keep the numbers stable. I mix 3 teaspoons per 4 gallons. I started with 1 teaspoon per gallon but my alk was slowly climbing about 0.25 dKH a week so I dialed the concentration back some. Kalk can certainly hurt your system if you over dose. It can cause your alk to skyrocket if nothing is in the tank to use it. Thats bad. When you dose kalk you have to test daily at first so you can make sure you're using the right amount. I'm down to testing once a week just to make sure nothing is funny. So far so good! Everything seems to really appreciate the stability in parameters now.

Palting · 02/10/2013, 11:23 PM

I did 10% weekly water changes with Reef Crystals for almost 2 years on a stony dominated mixed reef. By the second year, growth of the stonies overwhelmed the replenishment capability of water changes. On it's third year now, not only does the tank continue to need the water changes, it also needs full strength kalkwasser AND 3 part dosing t maintain parameters.

So, if you use salt that has high alk and calcium to begin with, it will be a while before you need to dose. And depending on your livestock, you may never need to. Just keep an eye on your parameters. Your tank will tell you if you need to dose, or if water changes are good enough. I know one reefer here at RC who has a tank that's over 40 years old, and it still does NOT need dosing. You guys know who I'm talking about

.

nynick · 02/11/2013, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bpb

I have a 55 gallon with a handful of sps frags and some annoying halimeda algae and do 10% wc a week. I had to start dosing kalkwasser as my topoff water to maintain calcium and alk. Without it, I was losing about 10 ppm calcium, and about 0.25 dKH a day. Over 7 days thats alot. And imagine if I miss a water change. I have found a good mixture of kalk to keep the numbers stable. I mix 3 teaspoons per 4 gallons. I started with 1 teaspoon per gallon but my alk was slowly climbing about 0.25 dKH a week so I dialed the concentration back some. Kalk can certainly hurt your system if you over dose. It can cause your alk to skyrocket if nothing is in the tank to use it. Thats bad. When you dose kalk you have to test daily at first so you can make sure you're using the right amount. I'm down to testing once a week just to make sure nothing is funny. So far so good! Everything seems to really appreciate the stability in parameters now.

This is the first time I hear this, are you sure you are not adding anything else? My experience is the exact opposite. I have to stop dosing Kalk and swich to Randy's "baked "baking soda solution to get my alkalinity to rise.

downbeach · 02/11/2013, 07:49 AM

The only way to know what "your" system needs is to monitor how much Ca and Alk is used. I would get your Ca and Alk where you want them, i.e. Ca @ 420, Alk @ 8, using your two part solutions, and then check your readings over time. I would start supplementing with kalk at one tsp. per gallon in your top off, and go to two tsp. if needed. Although, depending on your needs, kalk by itself may not be enough to keep up with your system's demand for both Ca and Alk. If the kalk isn't enough, I'd continue to use it, but start using the two part to keep up with the demand of your system.

zab34 · 02/11/2013, 03:56 PM

The only way to figure this out is to test for a period of time see what your numbers are doing. Maybe you can manage without maybe not. But you need the numbers.

02/09/2013, 09:08 PM	#1
simpp88 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 184	Water change vs dosing Is it reasonable to rely on frequent large water changes soley (say around 20% weekly) rather than two part dosing, kalkwasser or a calcium reactor?

02/10/2013, 12:21 AM	#3
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	there is no way to replace or i should say keep up the parameters of cal and alk and mag in an established reef by just 20% weekly water changes. in order to accomplish that you will need to do almost 50-60% water change per day. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

02/10/2013, 11:23 PM	#7
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	I did 10% weekly water changes with Reef Crystals for almost 2 years on a stony dominated mixed reef. By the second year, growth of the stonies overwhelmed the replenishment capability of water changes. On it's third year now, not only does the tank continue to need the water changes, it also needs full strength kalkwasser AND 3 part dosing t maintain parameters. So, if you use salt that has high alk and calcium to begin with, it will be a while before you need to dose. And depending on your livestock, you may never need to. Just keep an eye on your parameters. Your tank will tell you if you need to dose, or if water changes are good enough. I know one reefer here at RC who has a tank that's over 40 years old, and it still does NOT need dosing. You guys know who I'm talking about . __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

02/09/2013, 09:33 PM	#2
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	Depends on what you have in your tank. If softies, probably yes, but your coralline might grow slowly. If you have a lot of hard corals/clams you might need , Kalk, 2 part, calcium reactor AND 20% water changes just to keep up Kalkwasser is always a good idea though. Cheap and good in many ways and no down sides I can think of. If you over dose it becomes sand and it helps keep phosphates down to boot...this stuff is a miracle for 10 bucks a year. Also, you are gonna need top off water anyway.....might as well make it kalk.

02/10/2013, 10:13 PM	#4
Occane5 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 60	As stated above, it really depends on what types of corals you have. I do 20% weekly water changes and still dose 2-part....granted, I have an SPS dominant tank.

02/10/2013, 10:18 PM	#5
msaba Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 160	Simpp88, as others say, 'it all depends'. Best way is to check your parameters weekly and you will know for sure. I know some successful mixed reefs that do JUST water changes (a minority for sure) but I would add to me this reinforces the concept that the most important element of all water chemistry is stability! Mark

02/10/2013, 11:21 PM	#6
Bpb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 3,148	I have a 55 gallon with a handful of sps frags and some annoying halimeda algae and do 10% wc a week. I had to start dosing kalkwasser as my topoff water to maintain calcium and alk. Without it, I was losing about 10 ppm calcium, and about 0.25 dKH a day. Over 7 days thats alot. And imagine if I miss a water change. I have found a good mixture of kalk to keep the numbers stable. I mix 3 teaspoons per 4 gallons. I started with 1 teaspoon per gallon but my alk was slowly climbing about 0.25 dKH a week so I dialed the concentration back some. Kalk can certainly hurt your system if you over dose. It can cause your alk to skyrocket if nothing is in the tank to use it. Thats bad. When you dose kalk you have to test daily at first so you can make sure you're using the right amount. I'm down to testing once a week just to make sure nothing is funny. So far so good! Everything seems to really appreciate the stability in parameters now.

02/11/2013, 07:49 AM	#9
downbeach Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Smyrna, Delaware Posts: 3,767	The only way to know what "your" system needs is to monitor how much Ca and Alk is used. I would get your Ca and Alk where you want them, i.e. Ca @ 420, Alk @ 8, using your two part solutions, and then check your readings over time. I would start supplementing with kalk at one tsp. per gallon in your top off, and go to two tsp. if needed. Although, depending on your needs, kalk by itself may not be enough to keep up with your system's demand for both Ca and Alk. If the kalk isn't enough, I'd continue to use it, but start using the two part to keep up with the demand of your system.

02/11/2013, 03:56 PM	#10
zab34 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1,078	The only way to figure this out is to test for a period of time see what your numbers are doing. Maybe you can manage without maybe not. But you need the numbers.