a few cycling ?'s

[Zimmer]

so,i'm off and running, on day 3 of having my tank set up. today the water finally settled and i could see everything fully for the first time!!! we even have a little hermit crab and a tiny white starfish that hitched a ride in!

now, i understand the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle... mostly. my plan was to cycle my tank using live rock and sand, test and wait for the amm. spike to know that cycling is started, then wait accordingly until levels drop. then when you have a little bit of nitrate but no amm. or nitrite, you're done. kinda, in a nutshell. am I on target?

assuming i am, i have a few questions:
1-the LR i bought from my LFS has some red/purple and green coralline algae already on it. not loads, but its there. and it essentially went straight from their tanks to mine which was then immediately filled and heated. how much die off can i expect? this rock looks basically cured, is it even going to start my cycle, or if so will it be shorter?

2-depending on the answers above - do i do anything to instigate a cycle i.e. ghost feed, shrimp, etc? or is that going to be like.... "re-cycling" my already cycled tank (assuming my rock is cured = no cycle)?

3-part of this is me being impatient *i know i need to be patient. ugh* but how long do i wait for my cycle to start if it's going to, and how long might i expect to wait before adding CUC or other livestock?

i welcome any and all advice, comments, or critiques - i'm here to learn and sponge up all the info i can!

[bshow24]

Cycling is always the most intense part of this hobby!

First off, yes you are on target with how the cycle goes, now i will answer your questions to the best of my ability/knowledge:

1) the live rock may have a bit of die off, but more than likely you will not notice this. Because you got already cured live rock, there is a possibility that it helps to induce a quicker cycle. When I set up my 8 gallon, I used live rock from my 28 and it took only 1 week to cycle. Not saying this will happen for you, but you never know. And it is always safer to wait an extra week than it is to hope that you cycled and go with it.

2) let nature takes its course. If you are trying to instacycle/move through it fast, nothing good can come from it. People do say to feed as if there are fish in the tank, but I do not suggest this. I asked this question when I started my first tank, and I learned that doing this actually re induces the cycle. Luckily, I didn't get that issue, but at the same time it did nothing to speed up my cycle. Just wait until the spike occurs and everything happens naturally. Something good to live by in this hobby is tak everything slow. if you think you are doing things too quickly, you are.

3) Normal cycles can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks. With you having already cured live rock, it may very well shorten the cycle, but as I previously said, move at a snails pace. Do not try and rush it. Because this will cause you to waste your money by buying fish that just end up dying on you. As for CUC, as soon as you get your spike, then the ammonia goes down, you will want to do a water change and make sure your nitrates are low. Invertebrates have a much tougher time dealing with nitrates, but as soon as your tank has cycled, you can begin to add things.

If you have your skimmer, make sure that is up and running with this. You want to make sure it breaks in, and although it won't pull anything out since you do not have any inhabitants, it is still working itself in.

Here is what I suggest you do:
right after tank has cycled, add your Cuc. When you purchase your CuC, also get a fish or two you may be interested in. You need to quarantine these fish in another tank, the reasn being you do not want to put sick fish into your display tank. Diseases like ich will then get stuck in there and it will be a pain in the butt to get out (the only way this wouldnt be a problem is if your display tank is fish only, but if you have a CuC then obviously it isn't.) Give your CuC a week, and if the fish show no signs of any problems, you can put them in. Only add a few things to your tank at a time. You are increasing the bioload and therefore giving your filtration and skimmer a lot more work to do. If you add a lot of stuff at one time, there is a possibility you overwork these and they do not do the jobs necessary and endanger your entire tank.

If you have any questions, just ask away on here. I have learned a lot from people on here, which is the reason why I can even answer this question for you.

[wnppmy]

Our local has been into salt several years, brief lull and at his shop now has an all fish tank. Procedure was to rent a sizeable Grouper to cycle things as large tank near 200 gallons. All went well later adding some beautiful fish.

Ordered a 2nd set of fish all became ill and died as came from a different supplier. Collectors unfortunately use poisons to slow down and trap fish. Be very careful who you buy live.

His original fish doing amazingly well, take heed.

[keithhays]

I think I agree with everything bshow24 said for your system. I would though begin measuring Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. If you go two weeks without any increases in them, I would add something small to the tank to keep the bacteria going. If you notice any increases in anything, I would wait the whole 6 weeks for the cycle which would be underway before adding anything living to the tank.

ps. stay away from hermit crabs if you can help it. They will eat the snails.

[wnppmy]

Or you buy a Dwarf Pygmy Octopus as eats Hermits, just kidding.

One last Aug at local pet shop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUA2B...e_gdata_player

[keithhays]

Originally Posted by wnppmy

Or you buy a Dwarf Pygmy Octopus as eats Hermits, just kidding.

One last Aug at local pet shop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUA2B...e_gdata_player

Great now I need a new system to hold a Dwarf Pygmy Octopus.

[wnppmy]

They are adorable, need minimum 25 Gal, better 30 Gal. They are hard to resist, but are highly nocturnal. Pushed the limit mines in a 14GBio had since Aug, do have a short life span, still worth it if your so inclined. This one strayed in the local pet shop and snapped him up.

Rare view when lights turned on as busy on his Hermit feast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cxDn...e_gdata_player

[keithhays]

Originally Posted by wnppmy

They are adorable, need minimum 25 Gal, better 30 Gal. They are hard to resist, but are highly nocturnal. Pushed the limit mines in a 14GBio had since Aug, do have a short life span, still worth it if your so inclined. This one strayed in the local pet shop and snapped him up.

Rare view when lights turned on as busy on his Hermit feast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cxDn...e_gdata_player

He is awesome. Do you have issues with him escaping?

[Zimmer]

thank you for all the responses! i just tested this morning, and granted i'm using the API test kit which i've heard mixed reviews on, but my ammonia is between 0-0.25 ppm maybe, im kinda reaching because it looks closer to 0 lol, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, ph 8.2, salinity 1.024. so far all things looking good except i guess i expected an ammonia spike by now? and if i don't get one within another week or so then i can assume that my tank is cycled? this is day 4 now of being fully set up with no changes in test readings.

[Deinonych]

What are you using to "feed" the bacteria and initiate the cycle? Raw shrimp, ammonium chloride?

[Zimmer]

im not adding anything, at the moment, that was part of my initial question. If the rock is fully cured and theres nothing to start off the ammonia spike, do i add anything i.e. shrimp or flakes? or if the ammonia spike doesn't happen, does that mean the cured rock did some type of quickie cycle? i dont want to add anything that will make my tank start cycling again if its already beyond that point but if i have to add something to start the cycle i will!! hopefully i'm making sense here....?

[gone fishin]

I personally would add some ammonia to get about 1-2ppm. If the tank is truly cycled then within 24 hrs the ammonia should be gone. If not then it is still cycling.

As far as Qt goes the fish should stay IMO at a minimum of 6 weeks.

just my 2 cents.

[tanzer16]

Zimmer,

i went through the same questions with my cycle as you're having now. i started with 50lbs dry, and 13 pounds live from a local fish store with very little time in transportation. i think i had very little die off due to the short time out of water. i didn't test at all until a full week had passed, at which point i was showing ammonia 0 - 0.25.....no nitrites and no nitrates. i continued to monitor for the next seven weeks and never saw any increase in anything. i went through the diatom stage, some algae......and then coralline started to spread nicely over all of my dry rock around week seven. i added a clean up crew.....just a few hermits and snails.......then a chromis.......and i have yet to see any increase in anything three weeks after adding the livestock.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Zimmer

so,i'm off and running, on day 3 of having my tank set up. today the water finally settled and i could see everything fully for the first time!!! we even have a little hermit crab and a tiny white starfish that hitched a ride in!

now, i understand the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle... mostly. my plan was to cycle my tank using live rock and sand, test and wait for the amm. spike to know that cycling is started, then wait accordingly until levels drop. then when you have a little bit of nitrate but no amm. or nitrite, you're done. kinda, in a nutshell. am I on target?

assuming i am, i have a few questions:
1-the LR i bought from my LFS has some red/purple and green coralline algae already on it. not loads, but its there. and it essentially went straight from their tanks to mine which was then immediately filled and heated. how much die off can i expect? this rock looks basically cured, is it even going to start my cycle, or if so will it be shorter?

2-depending on the answers above - do i do anything to instigate a cycle i.e. ghost feed, shrimp, etc? or is that going to be like.... "re-cycling" my already cycled tank (assuming my rock is cured = no cycle)?

3-part of this is me being impatient *i know i need to be patient. ugh* but how long do i wait for my cycle to start if it's going to, and how long might i expect to wait before adding CUC or other livestock?

i welcome any and all advice, comments, or critiques - i'm here to learn and sponge up all the info i can!

Cycling is the cultivation of nitrification bacteria, such is the definition and is also practical. A lot of ecological long term balance in a reef DT will take time and occur after the introduction of livestock. But before you introduce your livestock into a tank, you have to be sure that they will not encounter ammonia.

Your plan to cycle places the lives on the LR in limbo. Do you consider them livestock or protein source to generate ammonia?

You can use the fishless (livestockless) method to cycle and consider the lives on LR as livestock. hence, you do NOT use freshly collected LR to cycle.

You cycle with dry rock and after the cycle you add the LR.

This is something that require some thoughts.

Some say that ammonia during cycling will kill the pest, but I cannot believe that ammonia during cycling does not kill desirable livestock on the LR as well.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by bshow24

Cycling is always the most intense part of this hobby!

I think this is just the opposite.

No matter what your goal is, mostly fish or mostly reef, cycling has to be the simplest and the most non-eventful part of this hobby.

The harder part will come later.

What is so intense about cycling?

[Stolireef]

In the words of Tom Petty,

"The waaaiitinng is the hardest part"

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Stolireef

In the words of Tom Petty,

"The waaaiitinng is the hardest part"

Get accustomed to waiting for a while FOR A CAUSE.

This hoppy needs this temperament.

Cycling takes ONLY 4-5 weeks, what is the big deal?

QTing fish takes twice as long, what is the big deal?

[Stolireef]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

Get accustomed to waiting for a while FOR A CAUSE.

This hoppy needs this temperament.

Cycling takes ONLY 4-5 weeks, what is the big deal?

QTing fish takes twice as long, what is the big deal?

Agreed. But, I can comiserate. When I was a newbie, I made every mistake in the book (probably because I didn't read any of them). Most importantly, I didn't have patience. I've learned since then but I still occasionally rush things and almost always pay the price.

I was just showing some understanding about waiting for a cycle to complete. My current tank took about three months.

[bshow24]

Originally Posted by Stolireef

In the words of Tom Petty,

"The waaaiitinng is the hardest part"

exactly...not intense as in its extremely hard to do. When you first get into this hobby, you want want want. Patience is obviously key here though.

And for me, I originally had fish only, so no need for a QT. Made it a lot easier. Now if I cycle a tank, I buy the fish I want at the same time and QT them then. Less time for being impatient, a lot more fun. But still gotta wait those 4-6 weeks.

[Zimmer]

LOL the waiting is absolutely the hardest part. but the best things are always worth waiting for! i'm just going to give it a couple weeks, keep testing, and see what happens! if i wait long enough, i bet it will all sort itself out without any assistance from me anyways