is my return strong enough?

Modern-Revolution · 02/19/2013, 08:14 PM

So I got this little giant which I plan on running as a return pump up to 3 30 gallon tanks. Mine is model 4-mdq-sc which I now realize is 880 gph and not 1200... would this be strong enough to return and split to 3 tanks about 4 feet above the pump with about 6 feet of plumbing?* Also the outlet is 1/2 inch so should I do all the plumbing at 1/2 inch or should I make it 1 inch?* I'm guessing the gph would be even worse at 1 inch.
This is my first time using external pumps and first shot at pvc hard plumbing.*
Here's a pic of the pump stats and my setup and my plumbing plan.
All criticism appreciated.

tkeracer619 · 02/19/2013, 08:51 PM

Yes. Its plenty for a return. In fact its about double the general rule of thumb.

Personally I would return it or sell it and get a much smaller more efficient pump. The 4-mdq-sc will cost you $160 per year. Over a 5 year lifespan you are talking a $500 difference in power cost vs an Ehiem 1260.

Modern-Revolution · 02/19/2013, 10:21 PM

Oh, wow.. that's a lot of money that I wasn't even considering. .. didn't realize it used so much energy. The eheim 1260 is one I was thinking of. I just had this external and thought it would be cool. Ty forthat bit. Makes a big difference.

tkeracer619 · 02/19/2013, 11:52 PM

You're welcome. Sometimes its the hidden costs that get us.

Ron Reefman · 02/20/2013, 06:48 AM

Hold on just a second. I'm not sure how anybody can make such a recommendation on pump size with the limited info you gave us.

Three questions:
1) How big is the sump and what will you have in it (ie. skimmer, refugium, ect)
2) Will the return pump be the only thing that moves water in the 3 30g tanks?
3) What will be in the 3 tanks?

Flow in the sump is determined by tank drain flow and the in sump pump. If it's just some filtration (socks or media) and a skimmer, then any flow thru the sump is preety much OK. If you have a refugium or DSB you want to turn over the fuge & DSB at something in the 5-10 times per hour. You can still have more flow thru the sump, but you'll need to isolate the fuge & DSB.

If this is the only source of flow in the 30g tanks you'll be turning them at less than 10 times per hour... probably not even enough for a FOWLR. Going to a lower flow sump pump means you'll need more flow from powerheads in all 3 tanks. How much is that going to cost?

sirreal63 · 02/20/2013, 07:31 AM

To answer your other question, make the return plumbing 1", if will improve flow, not reduce it. The larger the pipe, the less friction loss, up to a point. Typically going up 1-2 sizes larger than the pump outlet is best. Some pumps actually require a significantly larger piping than the outlet, Mag pumps are a good example of that.

bob1435 · 02/20/2013, 07:37 AM

I have the 1260 and love it.....

Modern-Revolution · 02/20/2013, 02:29 PM

Well the sump is a 55 gallon. It will house a skimmer and a heater and will have a large dsb fuge. I will probably have a gravity fed phosphate reactor from one of the tanks to the sump. Also have an eheim canister that I will be using as a reactor. Probably a yellow head jawfish in the fuge dsb.

I plan on using a koralia evo 750 power head in each tank but I suppose one strong pump would be better if I could get away with it.

One tank will have a mated pair of clowns and an anemone. .. not sure what kinda... maybe bta or carpet. Probably some inverts too.

One tank will have a fire coral moray eel and whatever else I can throw in there that could coexist in a tank that size. Maybe nothing. ..maybe a starfish or something.

One tank is still open for discussion.

So maybe I should get like a 1600 gph return or something and skip the koralia s? Suggestions?

Edit: I'm about to add 13" tall baffles to the sump to give you an idea of water volume. 5-6" dsb. The 55 is 48x12wx19" tall. Should allow an inch of water to drop from all tanks if power outage.
Live rock will be scattered throughout the tanks.

tkeracer619 · 02/20/2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

Hold on just a second. I'm not sure how anybody can make such a recommendation on pump size with the limited info you gave us.

Three questions:
1) How big is the sump and what will you have in it (ie. skimmer, refugium, ect)
He posted a picture showing 3 tanks and a sump that is clearly a 55g.
2) Will the return pump be the only thing that moves water in the 3 30g tanks?
He stated return pump and only mentioned the 3 tanks
3) What will be in the 3 tanks?
I don't think this is particularly relevant on a 120g setup made of 3 30g displays. You will most likely be using ball valves to adjust this anyways since every system is different. If they were going to contain the same stuff the op would probably just have a single larger system

Flow in the sump is determined by tank drain flow and the in sump pump.
Its determined only by the water being fed to the tanks via the return pump, drains are irrelevant.

Going to a lower flow sump pump means you'll need more flow from powerheads in all 3 tanks. How much is that going to cost?
Roughly $13 a year. + the cost of the pumps. Its less then half compared to running the pump he has laying around which wouldn't come close to providing enough flow for the system unless hes keeping sea horses.

That was my thought process for not having to ask any more info.

02/19/2013, 08:14 PM	#1
Modern-Revolution Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 77	is my return strong enough? So I got this little giant which I plan on running as a return pump up to 3 30 gallon tanks. Mine is model 4-mdq-sc which I now realize is 880 gph and not 1200... would this be strong enough to return and split to 3 tanks about 4 feet above the pump with about 6 feet of plumbing?* Also the outlet is 1/2 inch so should I do all the plumbing at 1/2 inch or should I make it 1 inch?* I'm guessing the gph would be even worse at 1 inch. This is my first time using external pumps and first shot at pvc hard plumbing.* Here's a pic of the pump stats and my setup and my plumbing plan. All criticism appreciated.

02/19/2013, 08:51 PM	#2
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Yes. Its plenty for a return. In fact its about double the general rule of thumb. Personally I would return it or sell it and get a much smaller more efficient pump. The 4-mdq-sc will cost you $160 per year. Over a 5 year lifespan you are talking a $500 difference in power cost vs an Ehiem 1260. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

02/19/2013, 11:52 PM	#4
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	You're welcome. Sometimes its the hidden costs that get us. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

02/20/2013, 06:48 AM	#5
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	Hold on just a second. I'm not sure how anybody can make such a recommendation on pump size with the limited info you gave us. Three questions: 1) How big is the sump and what will you have in it (ie. skimmer, refugium, ect) 2) Will the return pump be the only thing that moves water in the 3 30g tanks? 3) What will be in the 3 tanks? Flow in the sump is determined by tank drain flow and the in sump pump. If it's just some filtration (socks or media) and a skimmer, then any flow thru the sump is preety much OK. If you have a refugium or DSB you want to turn over the fuge & DSB at something in the 5-10 times per hour. You can still have more flow thru the sump, but you'll need to isolate the fuge & DSB. If this is the only source of flow in the 30g tanks you'll be turning them at less than 10 times per hour... probably not even enough for a FOWLR. Going to a lower flow sump pump means you'll need more flow from powerheads in all 3 tanks. How much is that going to cost? __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

02/20/2013, 07:31 AM	#6
sirreal63 Go Spurs Go!!! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Meadowlakes Texas Posts: 13,357	To answer your other question, make the return plumbing 1", if will improve flow, not reduce it. The larger the pipe, the less friction loss, up to a point. Typically going up 1-2 sizes larger than the pump outlet is best. Some pumps actually require a significantly larger piping than the outlet, Mag pumps are a good example of that. __________________ Jack No One has ever been seriously injured by using the search function. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. Current Tank Info: Reefing the Pentagon.

02/19/2013, 10:21 PM	#3
Modern-Revolution Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 77	Oh, wow.. that's a lot of money that I wasn't even considering. .. didn't realize it used so much energy. The eheim 1260 is one I was thinking of. I just had this external and thought it would be cool. Ty forthat bit. Makes a big difference.

02/20/2013, 07:37 AM	#7
bob1435 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 48	I have the 1260 and love it.....

02/20/2013, 02:29 PM	#8
Modern-Revolution Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 77	Well the sump is a 55 gallon. It will house a skimmer and a heater and will have a large dsb fuge. I will probably have a gravity fed phosphate reactor from one of the tanks to the sump. Also have an eheim canister that I will be using as a reactor. Probably a yellow head jawfish in the fuge dsb. I plan on using a koralia evo 750 power head in each tank but I suppose one strong pump would be better if I could get away with it. One tank will have a mated pair of clowns and an anemone. .. not sure what kinda... maybe bta or carpet. Probably some inverts too. One tank will have a fire coral moray eel and whatever else I can throw in there that could coexist in a tank that size. Maybe nothing. ..maybe a starfish or something. One tank is still open for discussion. So maybe I should get like a 1600 gph return or something and skip the koralia s? Suggestions? Edit: I'm about to add 13" tall baffles to the sump to give you an idea of water volume. 5-6" dsb. The 55 is 48x12wx19" tall. Should allow an inch of water to drop from all tanks if power outage. Live rock will be scattered throughout the tanks.