best pump for pressure?

567234ta · 03/05/2013, 02:58 AM

I have a unique setup where one sump power 4 tanks. The head height is about 8' max. I bought a panworld 200ps and it is just way too weak to power it all.
I need a pump that build extremely high pressue and have a lot of water flow, like 5000 gph or so.

I was looking at the dolphin 4750 type 4 pump but at 11feet it's running nearly nothing. Thats why i thought the panworld would be great as it is rated for 39' or so.
What would you suggest?
heres a pic of the setup.
each tank has 2 outputs of 1/2" pipe, flow controlled by valves before each tank, (8 flow control valves for balancing flow)

567234ta · 03/05/2013, 03:02 AM

how i control the feed to each tank separately

Mark Bianco · 03/05/2013, 04:28 AM

First off look at this chart for flow rates. http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml
You can only move so much water thru your plumbing, For a good pressure rated pumps Look into Reeflo pumps

michaellee64 · 03/05/2013, 10:07 AM

The Reeflo Hammerhead/Barracuda Hybrid is the way to go... but looking at the size of your sump & skimmer you might want to reconsider how much flow you really need? Also the size of your plumbing won't be able to handle 5000gph. I am running a Hammerhead on three tanks totaling 330 gallons through a 125g sump, and you would be amazed at just how much water that actually is! My sump was designed to handle that kind of water flow without any microbubbles making it back to the display tanks. But the Reeflo pumps are unmatched when it comes to volume/pressure/efficiency!

Northside Reef · 03/05/2013, 10:45 AM

a hammerhead will get it done those things are beasts. Are you sure you need that much flow?

I am a real fan of the Blowhole another Reeflo pump. it is very quite (something the hammerhead is not) and can move water a great distance, but not 5000 GPH. less than half that. but a great pump that uses less electricity.

SGT_York · 03/05/2013, 11:44 AM

You really don't need pressure at 8' of head, you need flow which you can increase by using 1.5" return pipes as mentioned previously. Pressure is only needed to reduce headloss generally 15' or more in height. Even if you only used 1.5" until your two four way split you will dramatically reduce friction loss and increase flow. Fricton loss is calculated exponentially from velocity, the faster it's moving the more loss.

with 8 1/2" pipes, pie r squared, you can push .25*.25*3.1415 your area is .20" *8 for 1.6 sq inches. 3/4 pipe your square area is .44 so the velocity in the 3/4 pipe is 4 times the flow in your 1/2 pipes. if you went to 1.5" it would be 1.8 square inches.

Semi-quick and helpful fix.
Those tanks look like 40G B's? so you are ~8x turnover probably could use more flow.

567234ta · 03/05/2013, 11:55 AM

the panworld 200ps works great on just 2 tanks, so something 2x as strong would be great. if it's too much i can always turn it back some and open it up to stir up the tank once in a while for cleaning. The sump is about 100 gallons or more.

sirreal63 · 03/05/2013, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGT_York

You really don't need pressure at 8' of head, you need flow which you can increase by using 1.5" return pipes as mentioned previously. Pressure is only needed to reduce headloss generally 15' or more in height. Even if you only used 1.5" until your two four way split you will dramatically reduce friction loss and increase flow. Fricton loss is calculated exponentially from velocity, the faster it's moving the more loss.

with 8 1/2" pipes, pie r squared, you can push .25*.25*3.1415 your area is .20" *8 for 1.6 sq inches. 3/4 pipe your square area is .44 so the velocity in the 3/4 pipe is 4 times the flow in your 1/2 pipes. if you went to 1/5 it would be 1.8 square inches.

Semi-quick and helpful fix.
Those tanks look like 40G B's? so you are ~8x turnover probably could use more flow.

I couldn't agree more, you are losing your flow from friction loss from using too small of a diameter pipe.

SGT_York · 03/05/2013, 12:34 PM

Either way I'd still change the 3/4" pipe to 1.5".

567234ta · 03/05/2013, 12:46 PM

No way i'm changing pipe sizes at this point. I could hook up 2 panworld 200s and it would be more than enough flow. So a larger pump will probably do. I am thinking about getting this pump
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dolphin-Amp-...-/181070779340

SGT_York · 03/05/2013, 01:31 PM

Looks great, but the input/output on that pump are 1.5" so you will need to change your plumbing, especially your pump input line. If you use a 1" bulkhead to pull a 1.5" input you will cavitate and destroy the impeller. You will either need to add another 1" or use a 1.5" bulkhead.

Changing the pump input size is significantly harder than changing the return lines.

567234ta · 03/05/2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGT_York

Looks great, but the input/output on that pump are 1.5" so you will need to change your plumbing, especially your pump input line. If you use a 1" bulkhead to pull a 1.5" input you will cavitate and destroy the impeller. You will either need to add another 1" or use a 1.5" bulkhead.

Changing the pump input size is significantly harder than changing the return lines.

Yeah i ordered a 2"bulkhead threadxthread sch 80 from BRS to change it. Since most ext pumps are 2" i figured i should go with that just for any future changes. One question i have is about the BRS strainers, i'm using the 1" now on my pump and seems somewhat restrictive.

Maybe i should get something larger?

567234ta · 03/05/2013, 02:22 PM

this is the setup now, The highest line is an open drain to outdoors that drains the skimmer and incase the sump gets too high it will drain it at 2 inches before the top. The other lower bulkhead with the good shutoff valve is for draining outdoors for water changes.

SGT_York · 03/05/2013, 02:29 PM

I used two 1" bulkheads and removed half of the strainer bars. Small enough to stop snails but large enough to not need weekly maintenance.

Drilling another hole over the current one is a challenge. I would just drill a second. Doesn't make much difference in the end. using the 1" bulkhead and the new 2" would work be safer than just the new 2".

567234ta · 03/05/2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGT_York

I used two 1" bulkheads and removed half of the strainer bars. Small enough to stop snails but large enough to not need weekly maintenance.

Drilling another hole over the current one is a challenge. I would just drill a second. Doesn't make much difference in the end. using the 1" bulkhead and the new 2" would work be safer than just the new 2".

Not sure if i have the room for another hole, the 2" takes a 3 3/8 hole or something like that. I should have no problem drilling over the old one, but i do agree it's not just a simple task.
I guess i'll have to wait until i get the bulkhead and pump and see how it all lines up. I have seen some other types of strainers that are much larger, i may just make something cutting slots in a pvc pipe so no restriction at all.

567234ta · 03/05/2013, 02:43 PM

Anyone use the ReeFlo Tiger Shark 4300GPH? that thing has a 85' shutoff. That would probably be the kind of pressure i need with all the small pipes

03/05/2013, 02:58 AM	#1
567234ta Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Smith AR Posts: 579	best pump for pressure? I have a unique setup where one sump power 4 tanks. The head height is about 8' max. I bought a panworld 200ps and it is just way too weak to power it all. I need a pump that build extremely high pressue and have a lot of water flow, like 5000 gph or so. I was looking at the dolphin 4750 type 4 pump but at 11feet it's running nearly nothing. Thats why i thought the panworld would be great as it is rated for 39' or so. What would you suggest? heres a pic of the setup. each tank has 2 outputs of 1/2" pipe, flow controlled by valves before each tank, (8 flow control valves for balancing flow)

03/05/2013, 10:07 AM	#4
michaellee64 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 323	The Reeflo Hammerhead/Barracuda Hybrid is the way to go... but looking at the size of your sump & skimmer you might want to reconsider how much flow you really need? Also the size of your plumbing won't be able to handle 5000gph. I am running a Hammerhead on three tanks totaling 330 gallons through a 125g sump, and you would be amazed at just how much water that actually is! My sump was designed to handle that kind of water flow without any microbubbles making it back to the display tanks. But the Reeflo pumps are unmatched when it comes to volume/pressure/efficiency! __________________ 180G Mixed Reef, 90G In Wall Reef, 60G Cube Seahorse Tank, Oceans Motions, 55G Refugium, 40G Frag Tank, 125G Basement Sump with ETSS Skimmer, Dosing Pumps, GFO Reactor

03/05/2013, 10:45 AM	#5
Northside Reef Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chanhassen, MN Posts: 1,294	a hammerhead will get it done those things are beasts. Are you sure you need that much flow? I am a real fan of the Blowhole another Reeflo pump. it is very quite (something the hammerhead is not) and can move water a great distance, but not 5000 GPH. less than half that. but a great pump that uses less electricity. __________________ Back again for more fun! See how much fun by checking out my home page. Current Tank Info: 280 Gallon Display, 92 gallon Cube Clown and anemone tank. 700 gallon filter shed that ties it all together.

03/05/2013, 11:44 AM	#6
SGT_York Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,746	You really don't need pressure at 8' of head, you need flow which you can increase by using 1.5" return pipes as mentioned previously. Pressure is only needed to reduce headloss generally 15' or more in height. Even if you only used 1.5" until your two four way split you will dramatically reduce friction loss and increase flow. Fricton loss is calculated exponentially from velocity, the faster it's moving the more loss. with 8 1/2" pipes, pie r squared, you can push .25.253.1415 your area is .20" 8 for 1.6 sq inches. 3/4 pipe your square area is .44 so the velocity in the 3/4 pipe is 4 times the flow in your 1/2 pipes. if you went to 1.5" it would be 1.8 square inches. Semi-quick and helpful fix. Those tanks look like 40G B's? so you are ~8x turnover probably could use more flow. Last edited by SGT_York; 03/05/2013 at 12:32 PM. Reason: typos*

03/05/2013, 03:02 AM	#2
567234ta Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Smith AR Posts: 579	how i control the feed to each tank separately

03/05/2013, 04:28 AM	#3
Mark Bianco In Memoriam Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Infinity and Beyond Posts: 2,445	First off look at this chart for flow rates. http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml You can only move so much water thru your plumbing, For a good pressure rated pumps Look into Reeflo pumps

03/05/2013, 11:55 AM	#7
567234ta Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Smith AR Posts: 579	the panworld 200ps works great on just 2 tanks, so something 2x as strong would be great. if it's too much i can always turn it back some and open it up to stir up the tank once in a while for cleaning. The sump is about 100 gallons or more.

03/05/2013, 12:34 PM	#9
SGT_York Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,746	Either way I'd still change the 3/4" pipe to 1.5".

03/05/2013, 12:46 PM	#10
567234ta Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Smith AR Posts: 579	No way i'm changing pipe sizes at this point. I could hook up 2 panworld 200s and it would be more than enough flow. So a larger pump will probably do. I am thinking about getting this pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dolphin-Amp-...-/181070779340

03/05/2013, 01:31 PM	#11
SGT_York Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,746	Looks great, but the input/output on that pump are 1.5" so you will need to change your plumbing, especially your pump input line. If you use a 1" bulkhead to pull a 1.5" input you will cavitate and destroy the impeller. You will either need to add another 1" or use a 1.5" bulkhead. Changing the pump input size is significantly harder than changing the return lines.

03/05/2013, 02:22 PM	#13
567234ta Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Smith AR Posts: 579	this is the setup now, The highest line is an open drain to outdoors that drains the skimmer and incase the sump gets too high it will drain it at 2 inches before the top. The other lower bulkhead with the good shutoff valve is for draining outdoors for water changes.

03/05/2013, 02:29 PM	#14
SGT_York Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,746	I used two 1" bulkheads and removed half of the strainer bars. Small enough to stop snails but large enough to not need weekly maintenance. Drilling another hole over the current one is a challenge. I would just drill a second. Doesn't make much difference in the end. using the 1" bulkhead and the new 2" would work be safer than just the new 2".

03/05/2013, 02:43 PM	#16
567234ta Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Smith AR Posts: 579	Anyone use the ReeFlo Tiger Shark 4300GPH? that thing has a 85' shutoff. That would probably be the kind of pressure i need with all the small pipes