My first tank, ask questions thread :)

T1mcyn7 · 03/11/2013, 06:15 AM

I'm going to finally dive in and have a go at a marine tank. I started this thread so along the way I can ask questions and hopefully receive some answers, without starting a new topic all the time.

Its an 18 inch cube, about 100lt. I have an eheim 2215 canister filter on it. Do I use that or opt for another filtering method?

What size power heads/wave maker do I go for? Being such a small tank, achieving too much flow wouldn't be hard?

Skimmer? It's not required for this size tank? But would be good to have one? If so what size/brand?

Lighting? Really want led, but they are rather expensive! Maybe diy? Or go with t5 or something?

That's really it for now. I just want to get it together and I can research what I'll stock it with later. I think I might just go fowlr at the moment.

whiteshark · 03/11/2013, 06:43 AM

Its hard to jump into saltwater with a small tank. Water parameters are harder to keep in check than on a large tank. I'm not a fan of canister filters on any sw tank, but some have used them with success. You just have to realize it will require weekly cleanings and that can become old fast. It also will not allow for any upgrade-ability or add-ons. For this reason I would recommend a sump style filtration system for almost any sw setup.

As for flow, it depends on what you plan on keeping in there. At a very very minimum I'd say 10x tank volume. For a FOWLR that might be OK, but if you want any LPS corals 20x tank volume would be better. For SPS at least 30x tank volume and up. You can see in my sig that I have quite a bit of flow in my 27 gallon cube, though those PHs are on a wavemaker and also quite underpowered IMO. Random flow with entire tank coverage is what we are aiming for here. One big powerhead is not as good as two or more smaller ones which can all be directed at different areas to achieve max coverage and randomness of flow.

A skimmer is a must in any tank IMO. If you aren't going to do a sump, an HOB skimmer should work. I've never used one though, so I can't make any recommendations there. If you go the sump route, get the biggest one you can fit in it. An Auto Top Off is another must IMO. GFO and Carbon reactors are always a nice thing to have as well IMO, though I suppose not entirely necessary especially in a FOWLR.

If you are handy, DIY LED is a good way to go. I considered it, but would really rather someone be here with me to walk me through it. I'm going to get a Radion for my cube in the near future. You can go with a MH pendant too, but would then likely need a chiller.

Something you have to realize is that this hobby is expensive regardless of tank size. You have to be ready to open your wallet and shell out some cash to get off to a good start. That's not to say you have to break the bank, but it is to say you're not going to get the entire thing up and running for 100$. Also realize that in all likelihood you will, at some point, want corals and or clams and should have the flexibility in your system to accommodate them. Another reason why a sump is a good idea.

MrClam · 03/11/2013, 11:18 AM

^ +1 solid advice. All ill add is that most people with small tanks have to do more regular water changes in order to keep things stable. So be prepared with a tank that size for daily attention.

T1mcyn7 · 03/11/2013, 03:25 PM

Thanks for the replies

I have a 4ft brackish tank thats been running for about 2 years now with now dramas. I was a bit nervous going into that, but not a problem at all. Every time i see a marine tank i just go all giggly inside lol, plus the kids have been at me to get one so i thought why not?
I have done a bit of research, not only on this forum but almost everywhere. Alot of people have setup 100lt, 80lt and even a 50lt tanks and have performed water changes every 2 weeks without any problems for 2+ years. So thats why i thought my cube could be a candidate for a setup.
I know the bigger the tank the easier it is to care for, but its the only tank i have spare, and a spare canister, and heater etc.
I have really thought long and hard about drilling my 4ft brackish tank and converting that to marine, but i cant give up my archers lol.
Maybe i can drill and sump this cube? would that help me any?

whiteshark · 03/11/2013, 03:31 PM

You have to check with the manufacturer and make sure the tank is not tempered. Otherwise you could certainly drill it and add a sump. I definitely think that would be the way to go.

T1mcyn7 · 03/13/2013, 04:40 PM

ok, confirmed the tank is safe to drill.
Whats a good turnover rate for the tank? 200gph? more? for a sump?
What size hole should i drill? 1.25''? That should be rated at around 500gph?
Is it better (ok) to make the bulkhead larger then needed? or will it make it noisy?

bshow24 · 03/13/2013, 04:56 PM

If you do not want to drill, you can always go with a HOB overflow. I use one on my 8 gallon and it works great.

For the overflow, the thing is it is only going to go as fast as your pump returns water. For the cube you have, you would want AT LEAST 10 times that size, which would be 260 gph. If you aim for 500 gph, you cannot go wrong. But remember, it is based on the pump of it.
If it ends up being too fast, just make sure you plumb your drain pipe with either a gate or ball valve so you can close up space and then hopefully it won't make any noise.

Also, with a sump, make it as big as you can. I have a 10 gallon sump (only thing that would fit without a custom built tank) and it works ok, but there is just not enough room for everything, very tight fit. The bigger the better because it adds to your total water volume so then you are not changing stuff as much. Then you can throw an in sump skimmer in, a refugium, and even throw your heater down there too. (If you do this, you will probably need at least a 100 watt heater, I would aim more for 150 depending on the size of the sump).

The 10 gallon sump was the first one I ever setup, and I will say this...USE AS MANY UNIONS AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. You need to clean the pipes every once in a while, and if you have regular PVC, it is a pain to have to cut it open then re-glue with a connector piece. Sumps are very simple, even though they seem complicated, but there are many ways you can do them wrong.

T1mcyn7 · 03/13/2013, 06:21 PM

Thanks champ

I would have setup sumps on all my tanks if i wasnt so concerned about flooding with a hob overflow. I have researched for ages on overflows. Some say its fail safe while others say its not, so to be sure i would drill.
Instead of plumbing with pvc, could i use hose/tubing?
I can fit a 20L x 16W x 16H tank under the stand, so that gives me about 15 or so gal.

bshow24 · 03/14/2013, 09:12 AM

Yeah a lot of places have flexible tubing that they sell. I have seen a lot of people rave about spaflex which is flexible pvc. If you use tubing remember to get hose clamps for the connections!

03/11/2013, 06:15 AM	#1
T1mcyn7 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 7	My first tank, ask questions thread :) I'm going to finally dive in and have a go at a marine tank. I started this thread so along the way I can ask questions and hopefully receive some answers, without starting a new topic all the time. Its an 18 inch cube, about 100lt. I have an eheim 2215 canister filter on it. Do I use that or opt for another filtering method? What size power heads/wave maker do I go for? Being such a small tank, achieving too much flow wouldn't be hard? Skimmer? It's not required for this size tank? But would be good to have one? If so what size/brand? Lighting? Really want led, but they are rather expensive! Maybe diy? Or go with t5 or something? That's really it for now. I just want to get it together and I can research what I'll stock it with later. I think I might just go fowlr at the moment.

03/11/2013, 06:43 AM	#2
whiteshark Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bethlehem, PA Posts: 3,024	Its hard to jump into saltwater with a small tank. Water parameters are harder to keep in check than on a large tank. I'm not a fan of canister filters on any sw tank, but some have used them with success. You just have to realize it will require weekly cleanings and that can become old fast. It also will not allow for any upgrade-ability or add-ons. For this reason I would recommend a sump style filtration system for almost any sw setup. As for flow, it depends on what you plan on keeping in there. At a very very minimum I'd say 10x tank volume. For a FOWLR that might be OK, but if you want any LPS corals 20x tank volume would be better. For SPS at least 30x tank volume and up. You can see in my sig that I have quite a bit of flow in my 27 gallon cube, though those PHs are on a wavemaker and also quite underpowered IMO. Random flow with entire tank coverage is what we are aiming for here. One big powerhead is not as good as two or more smaller ones which can all be directed at different areas to achieve max coverage and randomness of flow. A skimmer is a must in any tank IMO. If you aren't going to do a sump, an HOB skimmer should work. I've never used one though, so I can't make any recommendations there. If you go the sump route, get the biggest one you can fit in it. An Auto Top Off is another must IMO. GFO and Carbon reactors are always a nice thing to have as well IMO, though I suppose not entirely necessary especially in a FOWLR. If you are handy, DIY LED is a good way to go. I considered it, but would really rather someone be here with me to walk me through it. I'm going to get a Radion for my cube in the near future. You can go with a MH pendant too, but would then likely need a chiller. Something you have to realize is that this hobby is expensive regardless of tank size. You have to be ready to open your wallet and shell out some cash to get off to a good start. That's not to say you have to break the bank, but it is to say you're not going to get the entire thing up and running for 100$. Also realize that in all likelihood you will, at some point, want corals and or clams and should have the flexibility in your system to accommodate them. Another reason why a sump is a good idea. __________________ Deep Blue 60 gallon cube: Setup in progress. Last edited by whiteshark; 03/11/2013 at 07:14 AM.

03/11/2013, 03:31 PM	#5
whiteshark Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bethlehem, PA Posts: 3,024	You have to check with the manufacturer and make sure the tank is not tempered. Otherwise you could certainly drill it and add a sump. I definitely think that would be the way to go. __________________ Deep Blue 60 gallon cube: Setup in progress.

03/11/2013, 11:18 AM	#3
MrClam Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557	^ +1 solid advice. All ill add is that most people with small tanks have to do more regular water changes in order to keep things stable. So be prepared with a tank that size for daily attention.

03/11/2013, 03:25 PM	#4
T1mcyn7 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 7	Thanks for the replies I have a 4ft brackish tank thats been running for about 2 years now with now dramas. I was a bit nervous going into that, but not a problem at all. Every time i see a marine tank i just go all giggly inside lol, plus the kids have been at me to get one so i thought why not? I have done a bit of research, not only on this forum but almost everywhere. Alot of people have setup 100lt, 80lt and even a 50lt tanks and have performed water changes every 2 weeks without any problems for 2+ years. So thats why i thought my cube could be a candidate for a setup. I know the bigger the tank the easier it is to care for, but its the only tank i have spare, and a spare canister, and heater etc. I have really thought long and hard about drilling my 4ft brackish tank and converting that to marine, but i cant give up my archers lol. Maybe i can drill and sump this cube? would that help me any?

03/13/2013, 04:40 PM	#6
T1mcyn7 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 7	ok, confirmed the tank is safe to drill. Whats a good turnover rate for the tank? 200gph? more? for a sump? What size hole should i drill? 1.25''? That should be rated at around 500gph? Is it better (ok) to make the bulkhead larger then needed? or will it make it noisy?

03/13/2013, 04:56 PM	#7
bshow24 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 584	If you do not want to drill, you can always go with a HOB overflow. I use one on my 8 gallon and it works great. For the overflow, the thing is it is only going to go as fast as your pump returns water. For the cube you have, you would want AT LEAST 10 times that size, which would be 260 gph. If you aim for 500 gph, you cannot go wrong. But remember, it is based on the pump of it. If it ends up being too fast, just make sure you plumb your drain pipe with either a gate or ball valve so you can close up space and then hopefully it won't make any noise. Also, with a sump, make it as big as you can. I have a 10 gallon sump (only thing that would fit without a custom built tank) and it works ok, but there is just not enough room for everything, very tight fit. The bigger the better because it adds to your total water volume so then you are not changing stuff as much. Then you can throw an in sump skimmer in, a refugium, and even throw your heater down there too. (If you do this, you will probably need at least a 100 watt heater, I would aim more for 150 depending on the size of the sump). The 10 gallon sump was the first one I ever setup, and I will say this...USE AS MANY UNIONS AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. You need to clean the pipes every once in a while, and if you have regular PVC, it is a pain to have to cut it open then re-glue with a connector piece. Sumps are very simple, even though they seem complicated, but there are many ways you can do them wrong.

03/13/2013, 06:21 PM	#8
T1mcyn7 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 7	Thanks champ I would have setup sumps on all my tanks if i wasnt so concerned about flooding with a hob overflow. I have researched for ages on overflows. Some say its fail safe while others say its not, so to be sure i would drill. Instead of plumbing with pvc, could i use hose/tubing? I can fit a 20L x 16W x 16H tank under the stand, so that gives me about 15 or so gal.

03/14/2013, 09:12 AM	#9
bshow24 Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 584	Yeah a lot of places have flexible tubing that they sell. I have seen a lot of people rave about spaflex which is flexible pvc. If you use tubing remember to get hose clamps for the connections!