New To boards, Re Learning Salt

Railcar79 · 04/19/2013, 11:38 PM

Hello everyone, New to your site, and trying to get caught back up on salt. I had a salt tank 20 years ago, back in the days of under gravel filters and gro lights.

I am getting back into salt now. I have got me a basic plan on hardware, 55 gal, with a 29 gal sump, custom stand and a T5HO light. I am wanting to go FOWLR for a couple years then start adding a few corals. I have been reading for weeks, and looking into a Beananimal system.

I got a reefer in town offering me some sand and water from his tank when he does his next change, as well as filling my setup from his RODI. I plan on using some Green Chromis to cycle the tank, How many fish should I use to cycle the tank? When should I add the fish? How many fish can my tank handle?

I was looking at a bubble tip anenomie, a couple clowns, maybe a small blue tang (will be rehomed when it gets too big for the tank to a local aquarium society tank) some chromis, maybe a firefish or 2. Green Mandarin is a must have for my tank, it is the whole reason I am setting it up.

dchec · 04/20/2013, 12:15 AM

A few things based on what you said:

- don't cycle the tank with any fish. not really fair to the fish to put them through that. it doesn't cycle your tank any faster. use a raw shrimp from the grocery store instead. cycling with a live fish is an "old practice" so to speak.

- you won't be able to add fish until your tank is cycled, which will be a minimum of 4 weeks. could go as high as 8 weeks, it's hard to tell. i think 4 is average... but like i said, a live fish will not speed it up.

- personally, i would skip the tang, as it will not be happy in a tank that small, even if it's a small fish; and also i'd go with EITHER the firefish or chromis, but not both. not because they're not compatible, but because them along with the clown fish and the mandrin might be too big of a bioload. some here may disagree, but i'm more conservative when it comes to this.

- my last comment is about the mandrin... please read all you can on these guys. they generally only eat copepods, and those are only produced by an established tank. you'll be having a sump, which will help your 'pod production. just read all you can.

hope this helps! good luck!!

Railcar79 · 04/20/2013, 12:26 AM

I know mandarins are a PITA, only eat pods, stubborn, and dont bother decorating your tank, he will do it for you,,,,,Daily. I have had them before.

As for the rest, thank you for the help. Like I said my knowledge base is old school. We used to do a few Chromis in a tank, with used media and established water to cycle a tank quick. 4 weeks does seem a bit long to cycle though.

dchec · 04/20/2013, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Railcar79

I know mandarins are a PITA, only eat pods, stubborn, and dont bother decorating your tank, he will do it for you,,,,,Daily. I have had them before.

As for the rest, thank you for the help. Like I said my knowledge base is old school. We used to do a few Chromis in a tank, with used media and established water to cycle a tank quick. 4 weeks does seem a bit long to cycle though.

If you search this forum specifically, you'll find that on average it's about a month for the cycle.

There are countless posts on here about people trying to get things done "quick" in this hobby, and usually it turns problematic and leads to heartache. Seems like you're on the right track though, let us know how it goes.

Railcar79 · 04/20/2013, 08:49 AM

Thanks for the input. On the tang thatI would raise it till it got too big for my tank, I am actually doing that as a favor to the local aquarium society. they have a 2300 gal public display tank, but the tangs currently available are too small to survive in their tank, they need people to "Fatten Them Up" so they will survive the other tank predators as they grow up

tommyhrs · 04/20/2013, 06:54 PM

Tank will cycle much faster w/live rock. took all of 4 days for my 15g. to cycle. Took 8 days for my 40b to cycle, with all live rock 62lbs. and seed sand from the small tank.

Old school here too... but there is a lot of good info in the noob section. The hobby's come a long way in 20 years.

Railcar79 · 04/21/2013, 12:04 PM

I had some spare time yesterday and did a little sketch of what I am thinking about building. I have been considering a 10 gal fuge but not sure how I would put it in with the components I have. Stand will be 49" long and 3 foot high, and 18" wide. give me room to hide plumbing, and eventually I can upgrade tank to a 75 or even a 90.

Railcar79 · 04/21/2013, 10:55 PM

I cant PM yet, apparently need more posts, someone said there was a member I should PM on the stand build.

Railcar79 · 04/23/2013, 08:18 PM

anyone have advice for substrate? I am trying to figure out the best substrate for my eventual mandarin. might as well build it right from the start, and not have to re do it later.

tommyhrs · 04/23/2013, 09:56 PM

Check out the DIY section you'll get plenty of help there on the stand build. Don't know much about the Mandy but you can't go to far wrong w/ argonite sand #1 or reef grade.

Sk8r · 04/24/2013, 10:11 AM

What takes so long in the cycle---bacteria has to work its way all the way to the core of the rock. You can't hasten that, except by having very porous rock to start with.

Mandarins redecorate a tank? I've never had one move anything, and I've had them for decades. There is, however, reef putty, which will stick rocks together, and I-C-Gel which is underwater epoxy.

Railcar79 · 04/24/2013, 10:18 AM

It has been years since I had my last one, but he would dig holes and pile up sand where he wanted it. My tank looked like the surface of the moon back then.

lcs · 04/24/2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

he would dig holes and pile up sand where he wanted it

That doesn't sound like a mandarin, but a jawfish or something similar.

I second the aragonite, don't go sugar sized; it'll more than likely get blown all over the place.

I used straight ammonia from the grocery store to cycle with (unscented of course) anda shrimp. Either works, but the shrimp can stink pretty bad though.

I'm considering adding a valve on my return for water changes on my next build as well. What are you thinking of for a skimmer?

For the stand, check out RocketEngineer's plans.

Sk8r · 04/24/2013, 01:12 PM

Definitely not a mandarin. Mandarins hardly touch any surface except to park the tips of two fins on same.

Very likely a jawfish, or an engineer goby. The engineers can completely rework a tank.

Railcar79 · 04/24/2013, 01:19 PM

He was a beautiful green mandarin, it is all but impossible to confuse them for anything else. Maybe mine was an odd ball, but he put the sand the way he wanted. I think I spoiled him. As for cycle, I am not too worried, I got sand, rock, dirty filters and water form 3 different tanks to give it a shot of bacteria, and I work on the road 10 days out 4 at home. Since the wife doesn't know about salt yet, the tank will have plenty of time to sit and cycle.

04/24/2013, 10:11 AM	#11
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	What takes so long in the cycle---bacteria has to work its way all the way to the core of the rock. You can't hasten that, except by having very porous rock to start with. Mandarins redecorate a tank? I've never had one move anything, and I've had them for decades. There is, however, reef putty, which will stick rocks together, and I-C-Gel which is underwater epoxy. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/24/2013, 01:12 PM	#14
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Definitely not a mandarin. Mandarins hardly touch any surface except to park the tips of two fins on same. Very likely a jawfish, or an engineer goby. The engineers can completely rework a tank. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/24/2013, 01:19 PM	#15
Railcar79 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Colton South Dakota Posts: 229	He was a beautiful green mandarin, it is all but impossible to confuse them for anything else. Maybe mine was an odd ball, but he put the sand the way he wanted. I think I spoiled him. As for cycle, I am not too worried, I got sand, rock, dirty filters and water form 3 different tanks to give it a shot of bacteria, and I work on the road 10 days out 4 at home. Since the wife doesn't know about salt yet, the tank will have plenty of time to sit and cycle. Last edited by Railcar79; 04/24/2013 at 01:57 PM.

04/19/2013, 11:38 PM	#1
Railcar79 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Colton South Dakota Posts: 229	New To boards, Re Learning Salt Hello everyone, New to your site, and trying to get caught back up on salt. I had a salt tank 20 years ago, back in the days of under gravel filters and gro lights. I am getting back into salt now. I have got me a basic plan on hardware, 55 gal, with a 29 gal sump, custom stand and a T5HO light. I am wanting to go FOWLR for a couple years then start adding a few corals. I have been reading for weeks, and looking into a Beananimal system. I got a reefer in town offering me some sand and water from his tank when he does his next change, as well as filling my setup from his RODI. I plan on using some Green Chromis to cycle the tank, How many fish should I use to cycle the tank? When should I add the fish? How many fish can my tank handle? I was looking at a bubble tip anenomie, a couple clowns, maybe a small blue tang (will be rehomed when it gets too big for the tank to a local aquarium society tank) some chromis, maybe a firefish or 2. Green Mandarin is a must have for my tank, it is the whole reason I am setting it up.

04/20/2013, 12:15 AM	#2
dchec Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 304	A few things based on what you said: - don't cycle the tank with any fish. not really fair to the fish to put them through that. it doesn't cycle your tank any faster. use a raw shrimp from the grocery store instead. cycling with a live fish is an "old practice" so to speak. - you won't be able to add fish until your tank is cycled, which will be a minimum of 4 weeks. could go as high as 8 weeks, it's hard to tell. i think 4 is average... but like i said, a live fish will not speed it up. - personally, i would skip the tang, as it will not be happy in a tank that small, even if it's a small fish; and also i'd go with EITHER the firefish or chromis, but not both. not because they're not compatible, but because them along with the clown fish and the mandrin might be too big of a bioload. some here may disagree, but i'm more conservative when it comes to this. - my last comment is about the mandrin... please read all you can on these guys. they generally only eat copepods, and those are only produced by an established tank. you'll be having a sump, which will help your 'pod production. just read all you can. hope this helps! good luck!!

04/20/2013, 12:26 AM	#3
Railcar79 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Colton South Dakota Posts: 229	I know mandarins are a PITA, only eat pods, stubborn, and dont bother decorating your tank, he will do it for you,,,,,Daily. I have had them before. As for the rest, thank you for the help. Like I said my knowledge base is old school. We used to do a few Chromis in a tank, with used media and established water to cycle a tank quick. 4 weeks does seem a bit long to cycle though.

04/20/2013, 08:49 AM	#5
Railcar79 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Colton South Dakota Posts: 229	Thanks for the input. On the tang thatI would raise it till it got too big for my tank, I am actually doing that as a favor to the local aquarium society. they have a 2300 gal public display tank, but the tangs currently available are too small to survive in their tank, they need people to "Fatten Them Up" so they will survive the other tank predators as they grow up

04/20/2013, 06:54 PM	#6
tommyhrs Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Illinois Posts: 81	Tank will cycle much faster w/live rock. took all of 4 days for my 15g. to cycle. Took 8 days for my 40b to cycle, with all live rock 62lbs. and seed sand from the small tank. Old school here too... but there is a lot of good info in the noob section. The hobby's come a long way in 20 years.

04/21/2013, 10:55 PM	#8
Railcar79 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Colton South Dakota Posts: 229	I cant PM yet, apparently need more posts, someone said there was a member I should PM on the stand build.

04/23/2013, 08:18 PM	#9
Railcar79 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Colton South Dakota Posts: 229	anyone have advice for substrate? I am trying to figure out the best substrate for my eventual mandarin. might as well build it right from the start, and not have to re do it later.

04/23/2013, 09:56 PM	#10
tommyhrs Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Illinois Posts: 81	Check out the DIY section you'll get plenty of help there on the stand build. Don't know much about the Mandy but you can't go to far wrong w/ argonite sand #1 or reef grade.

04/24/2013, 10:18 AM	#12
Railcar79 Moved On Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Colton South Dakota Posts: 229	It has been years since I had my last one, but he would dig holes and pile up sand where he wanted it. My tank looked like the surface of the moon back then.