Kalkwasser and PH increase

msbreton · 05/15/2013, 03:22 PM

I've been dosing kalkwasser in my ATO for a week now. Since I started, PH has remained stable in the 8.28-8.34 range. Today, it's climbed up to 8.40. Is that too high? I have my Apex set to turn the lights off and the ATO off if it get's over 8.40 so it shouldn't get any higher but am I over reacting? What is too too high?

Thanks!

-Mike

tmz · 05/15/2013, 03:50 PM

>8.5 is too high,ime .Th higher it is the more likely th calcium hydroxide, (kalk) will prcipitatr out of solution particfualry around heatrs , pumps and othr heat sources.

Sk8r · 05/15/2013, 03:54 PM

Is the tank located in the basement, near a heater? furnace? Fireplace?

msbreton · 05/15/2013, 04:53 PM

No. In our family room. No changes since to the tank nor around the tank since I started with the kalkwassser. It's possible that KH has increase enough to bring PH up to 8.4. I tested on Sunday and it was 8.5. I'm traveling and will not be home until tomorrow so I can't check KH. I've turned the lights and ATO off for now and will watch PH. My family can top off with pure RODI water a couple of times until I can get home and check the KH and adjust the amount of kalkwasser in the ATO, if needed.

-Mike

tmz · 05/15/2013, 09:18 PM

Kalk can pH and alkalinity and calcium, Extra surface agitation can lower pH it if CO2 is lower in the tank than the surrounding air.

Also if you are using a monitor for ph it's worth noting that they might drift high when in need of recalibration,ime. I might try cleaning the prob with a little vinegar an a soft tooth brush.

thegrun · 05/16/2013, 01:49 PM

Try adding a tablespoon of white vinegar per gallon of kalkwasser mix. This will lower your pH and has the added benefit of allowing you to mix more kalk into a given gallon of water. If your pH then starts to drop reduce the amount of vinegar added.

tmz · 05/16/2013, 02:01 PM

The vinegar is an organic carbon source(acetic acid). At 45 ml per gallon of top off kalk it is substantial and may cause a bacterial bloom and/or precipitous drops in nutrient levels in th tank.. It does have a short lived precipitous effect on pH but makes up for that as the acetate it adds is degraded by bacteria. When mixed with kalk at full saturation( ie about 3tsps per gallon instead of 2 ) it has no such effect. The kalk is still 12.54 pH.

Palting · 05/16/2013, 07:31 PM

What's your alk level? Maybe it's time to cut back on the kalkwasser.

msbreton · 05/16/2013, 07:55 PM

That's what I'm thinking. Current at 35,000'.

Be home in a couple of hours. Will test then and will adjust the kalk level if/as needed. Thanks!

P.S. PH has held at 8.30 since turning off my ATO.

Mike

msbreton · 05/17/2013, 03:01 PM

Well, it wasn't high KH. Got home last night and after having the ATO off for > 24 hours, KH was only 8dkh. PH was still at 8.30 so I turned the ATO back on and it was still 8.30 this morning but this afternoon it's creeped up to 8.36 so I've lowering the amount of kalk in my ATO a bit (from 1 tsp / gal to .75 tsp / gal). We'll see if that levels the PH off a bit.

-Mike

05/15/2013, 03:22 PM	#1
msbreton Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 138	Kalkwasser and PH increase I've been dosing kalkwasser in my ATO for a week now. Since I started, PH has remained stable in the 8.28-8.34 range. Today, it's climbed up to 8.40. Is that too high? I have my Apex set to turn the lights off and the ATO off if it get's over 8.40 so it shouldn't get any higher but am I over reacting? What is too too high? Thanks! -Mike __________________ Tank Info:75gal mixed reef-134lbs LR & 40lbs sand, Eshopps PF-1000 overflow, RS-1000 sump (20gal), Fuge (10g), Reef Octopus eSsence S-130 Skimmer, Reef Tec 400 pump, Aqua 25w UV, VorTech MP40wES, 2 Ra

05/15/2013, 03:50 PM	#2
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	>8.5 is too high,ime .Th higher it is the more likely th calcium hydroxide, (kalk) will prcipitatr out of solution particfualry around heatrs , pumps and othr heat sources. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

05/15/2013, 03:54 PM	#3
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Is the tank located in the basement, near a heater? furnace? Fireplace? __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/15/2013, 04:53 PM	#4
msbreton Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 138	No. In our family room. No changes since to the tank nor around the tank since I started with the kalkwassser. It's possible that KH has increase enough to bring PH up to 8.4. I tested on Sunday and it was 8.5. I'm traveling and will not be home until tomorrow so I can't check KH. I've turned the lights and ATO off for now and will watch PH. My family can top off with pure RODI water a couple of times until I can get home and check the KH and adjust the amount of kalkwasser in the ATO, if needed. -Mike __________________ Tank Info:75gal mixed reef-134lbs LR & 40lbs sand, Eshopps PF-1000 overflow, RS-1000 sump (20gal), Fuge (10g), Reef Octopus eSsence S-130 Skimmer, Reef Tec 400 pump, Aqua 25w UV, VorTech MP40wES, 2 Ra

05/15/2013, 09:18 PM	#5
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Kalk can pH and alkalinity and calcium, Extra surface agitation can lower pH it if CO2 is lower in the tank than the surrounding air. Also if you are using a monitor for ph it's worth noting that they might drift high when in need of recalibration,ime. I might try cleaning the prob with a little vinegar an a soft tooth brush. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

05/16/2013, 01:49 PM	#6
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	Try adding a tablespoon of white vinegar per gallon of kalkwasser mix. This will lower your pH and has the added benefit of allowing you to mix more kalk into a given gallon of water. If your pH then starts to drop reduce the amount of vinegar added.

05/16/2013, 02:01 PM	#7
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	The vinegar is an organic carbon source(acetic acid). At 45 ml per gallon of top off kalk it is substantial and may cause a bacterial bloom and/or precipitous drops in nutrient levels in th tank.. It does have a short lived precipitous effect on pH but makes up for that as the acetate it adds is degraded by bacteria. When mixed with kalk at full saturation( ie about 3tsps per gallon instead of 2 ) it has no such effect. The kalk is still 12.54 pH. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

05/16/2013, 07:31 PM	#8
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	What's your alk level? Maybe it's time to cut back on the kalkwasser. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

05/16/2013, 07:55 PM	#9
msbreton Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 138	That's what I'm thinking. Current at 35,000'. Be home in a couple of hours. Will test then and will adjust the kalk level if/as needed. Thanks! P.S. PH has held at 8.30 since turning off my ATO. Mike __________________ Tank Info:75gal mixed reef-134lbs LR & 40lbs sand, Eshopps PF-1000 overflow, RS-1000 sump (20gal), Fuge (10g), Reef Octopus eSsence S-130 Skimmer, Reef Tec 400 pump, Aqua 25w UV, VorTech MP40wES, 2 Ra

05/17/2013, 03:01 PM	#10
msbreton Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 138	Well, it wasn't high KH. Got home last night and after having the ATO off for > 24 hours, KH was only 8dkh. PH was still at 8.30 so I turned the ATO back on and it was still 8.30 this morning but this afternoon it's creeped up to 8.36 so I've lowering the amount of kalk in my ATO a bit (from 1 tsp / gal to .75 tsp / gal). We'll see if that levels the PH off a bit. -Mike __________________ Tank Info:75gal mixed reef-134lbs LR & 40lbs sand, Eshopps PF-1000 overflow, RS-1000 sump (20gal), Fuge (10g), Reef Octopus eSsence S-130 Skimmer, Reef Tec 400 pump, Aqua 25w UV, VorTech MP40wES, 2 Ra