Emperor Angelfish?

[Alexi66]

I have a 150 gallon tank with a queen angelfish about 3-5 inches and changing colors. I want to get a emperor. Can I?

[DonCorsean]

I would say your tank is small just for the queen angel alone, forget about the emp.

[roenicknewf]

It would be possible for now...Long term though ,,it won't ..
They are from different families ,so i think as juvis they will be OK..You would HAVE to upgrade in a year though ..roughly the time the emp is changed..

Doncorsean is right though ,,even the queen will outgrow the tank ..An upgrade is a must ,even for one angel

[Alexi66]

Yes I know she'll out grow the tank. But when she does, I plan on donating her to the New York aquarium since I live in NY. But do you think it will be a good idea to get the emp now?

[Alexi66]

And you also have to consider that other people have put angelfish tanks. With like 5 or 6 angels there.

[roenicknewf]

A lot of times when you see those overstacked angel tanks people add them all at once so non have a chance to establish any territory in the tank..

Heck,i'm going to be adding an emp and koran to my tank together which already contains a french ..

so i guess if you want to add it ,go for it

[griseum]

And Alexi- I know I sound like a mother, but just because you see other people do it in a video, doesn't mean that its working long term or even that those multiple angels live in the same tank before and after the video is taken. Its trickery!!

But on the other hand, the right and ethical way to keep fish is a lot different than just what other people do, so I can do it too.

Theres a video out there of a guy with what looks like a 180 gallon tank with a Bumblebee grouper that's about 2 1/2'-3' feet long and a good 40 pounds, in it. The poor fish can barely turn around and it is so stunted that in a proper tank the fish would probably be 5 feet long. You can tell by the size of its Eyes that it should be twice the length that its been able to grow in such a small tank. Now should I do that because he can?

EDIT: Heres the sickening video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TcgGhMeSeU

I had a BB grouper bigger than that! But it was in my pond that is 12'x12' with massive filtration.

Try to do things the way people who've tried it before advise you to do it. You have an advantage by having access to this website and others. You can learn from other peoples mistakes and experience. Multiple Poma or Holacanthus angels in a tank that is not big enough or aquascaped properly will end up in the death or atleast injury of one of the fish. There is a ton of info on RC about keeping multiple angels in different sized tanks. A member here by the username of Copps is a pioneer in the subject as well as Humaguy who is doing this as we speak. They will have great advice for you. Good luck

[humaguy]

it can work but bad things may happen when the emp changes to adult- which can take years...it took my last one close to 3.5 years to change...that process picked up speed when added to my big tank...once she became a full adult she became a total terror...make sure you have lots of rock for her to hide in...change the rock around when you add and leave the lights off for a few days...

[humaguy]

the bigger the tank the easier it is to keep multiple angels but it is by no means an impossibility...I am very angel heavy as many of us are...

[ace_92101]

Originally Posted by Alexi66

Yes I know she'll out grow the tank. But when she does, I plan on donating her to the New York aquarium since I live in NY. But do you think it will be a good idea to get the emp now?

I'd make pre arrangements with the NY Aquarium. Many public aquariums don't take donations of fish. Another thought would be to make arrangements with your LFS. That's what I did.

[griseum]

Im glad you chimed in Huma. Im just concerned that a 150 is on the small size for ONE Holacanthus angel. Now if you add a Pomacanthus into her space, it could be chaos. Your tank is also very large Huma. How do you feel about a 72"x18" tank?

However, as you noted, it may take years for both fish to reach Adult coloration or a size where things feel cramped.

My best advice would be to aquascape so that there is a lot of Line-of-Sight break-up. This way both fish can swim in many areas without having to see the other. This may also allow for a more peaceful co-existence. I have mated Centropyge angels, and they can be rough with each other. I also have multiple large angels but in a big body of water.

[humaguy]

it really depends on the size of the fish...the queen being 3-4 inches and a small emp should be fine for a while...my qt are 125 and 250 though they sometimes double as dt, lol, so I have done similar but have other tanks to move around my livestock...so, providing there is enough lr and the fish are well fed things should be okay...but clearly for long term the tank is not suitable...making plans to get rid of a fish down the road is often not practical...as Ace mentioned, most aquariums will not take donations...and making plans with a lfs to take a fish 1, 2, 3 years plus down the road is silly...that lfs might be out of business next month or next year...in 1990, I had a 45 gallon qt that had a baby queen, baby clarion, baby passer and breeding pair of flame angels...there was such little aggression that the flames continued to give eggs constantly...but, I had other dt tanks a 55, 110, and 250 so, I always had an escape plan if things went south...it is vital to have a plan "b" in case things get bad...

[Mrscribbled]

Mixing angles is not difficult to do, the problem is everyone wants to mix queens, emps, french, korans, bluefaces together. These are the largest and most aggressive angles and often disaster strikes.


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[coral_lagoon]

It also depends what other fish are already in the 150. If it's just the queen. Then yeah you could probably get away with the Emp.,but that's it. I wouldn't put any other fish . You're done..

[humaguy]

if the fish are all small...under the 4 inches the Queen is...I think there is room for a couple more fish but you need a solid escape plan...can't def. count on a public Aquarium or lfs...though depending on what part of the country you live in- somebody in here could probably assist...

[mattsilvester]

1. Your difficulty is that our queen angel is getting big now (3" or 5" ..... which is it? the latter is double the former) and so getting a "bigger" emporer means putting a big fish in a realtively small tank. Getting a smaller emporer means punching bag for queen.

2. When fish are at the "growing quickly" stages of development, they need proportionally bigger tanks. So, whilst an adult fish at say 60-70% of its adult size is fine in a tank that is 6-8 times its length (eg. 72"-96" tank), I would not advocate a fish at 30% its adult size being kept in 36"-48" tank. I know this is not your situation - I am just illustrating a point with figures. I would say that adolescent fish in the range 30-50% of adult size should be in tanks in the range of 8-12 times their adult length. This is in order to prevent severly stunting and similar maladies.

Putting these two concepts together, we can see that while your queen is ok for now, in a few inches she'll need to be moved; since she is already a decent size then getting a bigger emporer is fool hardy; getting a smaller emporer has a high chance of failure.

[sandwi54]

It pains me to see people putting the largest species of angelfish like emperor and queen in anything smaller than an 8-foot, 300g tank. Emperor and queen easily get to 12-14" in captivity, which are pretty large fish! A 150g is far too small for either of these fish unless it's smaller than 5". You should look for a smaller angel instead such as majestic.

[usmc1812]

You can keep a wide variety of Angels if your tank is big enough. The key is different sizes on the Angels. You will have some aggression so it's best to put them in at night after they hide in the rocks.

[SDguy]

Originally Posted by usmc1812

The key is different sizes on the Angels.

Just to clarify, you mean different sizes do to being different genus/species, not simply due to age of the fish, correct?

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by sandwi54

It pains me to see people putting the largest species of angelfish like emperor and queen in anything smaller than an 8-foot, 300g tank. Emperor and queen easily get to 12-14" in captivity, which are pretty large fish! A 150g is far too small for either of these fish unless it's smaller than 5". You should look for a smaller angel instead such as majestic.

I agree completely. There's a good chance the Queen will go postal as soon as he sees the Emperor. He's old enough to have claimed the whole tank as his territory by now.

[jjk_reef00]

Originally Posted by sandwi54

It pains me to see people putting the largest species of angelfish like emperor and queen in anything smaller than an 8-foot, 300g tank. Emperor and queen easily get to 12-14" in captivity, which are pretty large fish! A 150g is far too small for either of these fish unless it's smaller than 5". You should look for a smaller angel instead such as majestic.

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

I agree completely. There's a good chance the Queen will go postal as soon as he sees the Emperor. He's old enough to have claimed the whole tank as his territory by now.

+1 on both posts above. Even if you are lucky enough for the fish to coexist without killing eachother you have a year tops before 1 and maybe both will need to be rehomed because a single large angel will be too large for your tank (Not to mention 2). Why not buy fish that are more appropriate for your tank size?