De-rimmed 40 breeder build

[Joe Lydon]

Here's what I started with : I decided to sell my remaining 40b aquarium, and this was the package it was to come with. Well, that didn't last long. I got the idea to de-frame the tank and see where I ended up.


First stand I've ever built. I also resealed the tank with black silicone.


The floating canopy. It mounts to a stringer with carriage bolts. The stringer is mounted to the wall studs with 6" lag bolts.


Disregard the cord, I'll be adding another PVC spacer, so I can run wires through the wall, into the filter room. I'm using an Aqua Medic 250w hqi pendant with a 14k Phoenix bulb. I may add a Tek 2 bulb retro kit.


Water test. Success!


Here's the sump that it will be plumbed into. Skimmer needs upgrading. I run an ATS, and massive amounts of chaeto, under a 150w 10k metal halide. I haven't felt the need to run my BRS reactors, as my nutrients stay very low as it is.


Up and running!






Love this chalice. Don't know what kind it is, but it only had 2 eyes and no rim when I got it in December.


I'll get more photos of livestock, as I go. I'm only working with a camera phone for now!

Thanks for looking!

[Drae]

I did that to a 40b and it gave out! You really should euro brace it. That glass is not thick enough to go rimless. Not trying to rain on your parade. The 40 I did was used with a loose trim already though so idk. Good luck.

[rwb500]

question for both of you-

did you completely disassemble the stock tank and strip the silicone off with mineral spirits or something, and then rebuild it?

if so, wow, i am impressed! that's dedication.

[phantomg23]

ok i really want to do that with my 40b!!

[mandarin_goby]

That looks so sweet...but I'd lose a lot of sleep stressing about it! Still, love the rimless look.

[Joe Lydon]

Originally Posted by mandarin_goby

That looks so sweet...but I'd lose a lot of sleep stressing about it! Still, love the rimless look.

Thanks! The tank is plenty strong. That's why it comes without a center brace. 1/4" glass is perfectly capable of containing the hydrostatic pressure of 13.5" of water. If I were to have built it from scratch, I'd have used 3/8's starphire, but that would just be for aesthetics. Of course, there's the risk of damaging the glass, but it's glass, does anybody else go banging on their tank with hardened objects?! =)

[Drae]

Originally Posted by Joe Lydon

Thanks! The tank is plenty strong. That's why it comes without a center brace. =)

Um no... it comes with a trim that helps with the overall integrity of the tank. You couldn't get a tank that size from a builder in less then 3/8 without euro bracing and 1/2" rimless. My tank split at the rear left corner after about 2 months with a perfectly level and solid (I'm a carpenter) stand. I'm from Vegas so I've never been scared to roll the dice... but I crapped out on that one.

[Drae]

Looks like you resealed it completely by taking the panes apart. Did you use rtv-103 black?

[Andyf30]

you need to brace this man. I'm upgrading to deep blue's 50 gallon specifically because it has a center brace. My current 40 breeder is bowing on the front pane even with the brace on. Seriously your tank is going to blow out and 40 gallons of water/coral/fish will be everywhere.

[Joe Lydon]

Originally Posted by Drae

My tank split at the rear left corner after about 2 months with a perfectly level and solid (I'm a carpenter) stand......Looks like you resealed it completely by taking the panes apart. Did you use rtv-103 black?

My bad! I didn't realize I needed to be a carpenter to use a level correctly.
You mean the Elmer's glue mixed with latex paint, won't hold? I'll keep my aqualung mask and fins at the ready, should my reef end up on the floor.

Could someone help me out? I can't seem to find where I asked for build advice in my original post.

Mods : Can you please close the thread? I'm not up for a debate with all of these PhD's in engineering.

[mandarin_goby]

No need to be defensive, people mean well. No one wants you to find 40 gallons if water, sand, critters, rock on your floor. I just see friendly advice here. Even braces aren't bulletproof - my brace on my 55 split - seeing that glass bowing was terrifying. Thankfully, I caught it just in time, bought another 55 asap and made the transfer. I'd hate for anyone to go through that with a busted seam!

I've read threads where derimming a 20 gallon or even a 10 isn't recommended! Best of luck!

[stewbacca]

I think you're over reacting to people trying to warn you about things they have experienced in the past. They're not bashing you, just trying to warn you about the possible outcome.

BTW. I do like the "floating'' canopy are you gonna stain it to match the stand?

[Joe Lydon]

I realize that, but the general public is under the assumption that the people on the other side of the internet are incompetent. It's true, I assume the same thing. I built the tank from scratch and water tested it to my satisfaction. I was hoping the advice would cease after I acknowledged the initial warnings, in my 2nd post. I'm also big enough to admit when I'm wrong, so if I end up with fishies on the floor, I will post pictures and applaud everyone who warned me. I won't hold my breath though.

[D-Nak]

A lot of folks have been told that de-rimming a tank is a no-no, since the top rim supposedly provides structural support. It sounds like you're confident in the structural integrity of your tank. Rather than shut down the thread, could you provide some insight instead? I think a lot of people would choose to do what you did (and not confront you on the thread) if they understood what it took to achieve this.

[mark54321]

I don't think anybody is bashing you just because, no need to be so defensive. By posting on public forum you're opening yourself for criticism as well , not only praise. Your tank looks great and hopefully it will be ok long term. Keep posting updates , it will look even better when corals grow out more.

[stewbacca]

I am still curious about your resealing process. Did you completely disassemble the tank and rebuild with fresh silicone?
Also was there any bowing of the tank in the center once filled w water?

[Joe Lydon]

Originally Posted by D-Nak

A lot of folks have been told that de-rimming a tank is a no-no, since the top rim supposedly provides structural support. It sounds like you're confident in the structural integrity of your tank. Rather than shut down the thread, could you provide some insight instead? I think a lot of people would choose to do what you did (and not confront you on the thread) if they understood what it took to achieve this.

I wouldn't suggest someone to remove the frames from their tank, if they were not aware of the risk involved. Even mass manufactured rimless tanks are subject to failure. Euro bracing fails, as well. Quality control has an effect on everything.

The top rim of an Aqueon 40 breeder is mainly in place to prevent damage to the edge of the glass. As it does add some structural back up, it is in no way responsible for holding back the water. It bends, like a wet noodle. De-rimming should never be performed on tanks with a center brace. Being that the tank is rimless, my water level is nearly 25% lower than it would be, with a rim.

The hydrostatic pressure created with 13.5" of water is roughly .40 psi. The tensile strength of 1/4" glass at a 3' span, is well within the safety margin.

With that said, I don't plan on any wavemakers.

Seam prep is the most important factor to holding this tank together. Silicone with a good bond at full strength, is an amazing thing. I wouldn't trust the factory seams, on top of the fact that you have already compromised them when you removed the frames. I went through half a box of razor blades and removed all traces of the original silicone. Prepped the glass with acetone and handled the glass with latex gloves. My silicone seals are perfect and 1/4" wider than the originals.

The tank sits on foam underlayment, backed with 3/4" plywood. The stand is completely level and the weight of the tank is evenly distributed.

I realize that others have had bad luck, but they did not build my tank.

[Joe Lydon]

Originally Posted by mark54321

I don't think anybody is bashing you just because, no need to be so defensive. By posting on public forum you're opening yourself for criticism as well , not only praise. Your tank looks great and hopefully it will be ok long term. Keep posting updates , it will look even better when corals grow out more.

Thanks Mark! Everything is steadily growing! I will definitely be updating. I actually picked up a 75g with a broken side pane that I'm cutting down to 14" in height. I plan to go rimless with that as well. Most likely cut out the back and install an external overflow box.

[mandarin_goby]

Great explanation! I truly hope it holds. I moved from a nasty reef forum - people are very helpful here.

Your tank looks great!

[rwb500]

Originally Posted by Joe Lydon

my water level is nearly 25% lower than it would be, with a rim.

huh? it looks about 0.5" to 1" lower than normal. 25% would be 3.5" or 4".

also nice job on the huge overreaction. i'm glad you got back on your medicine.

[kev311]

Originally Posted by rwb500

huh? it looks about 0.5" to 1" lower than normal. 25% would be 3.5" or 4".

also nice job on the huge overreaction. i'm glad you got back on your medicine.

Jeez... That response wasn't exactly warranted but nice job keeping up the toxicity of being generally unpleasant. Seriously though the tank looks sweet I hope it works out. I've tossed around the idea of doing something similar but have always been too chicken to try it.

[Joe Lydon]

Originally Posted by rwb500

huh? it looks about 0.5" to 1" lower than normal. 25% would be 3.5" or 4".

also nice job on the huge overreaction. i'm glad you got back on your medicine.

Engineers and Mathletes! I apologize, my math was off, a touch! The water level is at 13.5" exactly. That's 2.5" less than the 16" that would normally be in the tank. That's 15.624% lower, or 84.375% of 16. For some reason, my brain was correlating the 3.5 in 13.5", as the difference in water level, which I then rounded the 3.5 to 4" and called it 25%. I assure you, it's still safe.

There are no compounds that will dissolve cured silicone, aside from aircraft stripper, and that's not worth the health risks. It needs to be removed with a razor blade, as a matter of fact, most likely a half of a box of them. .As for the "dedication" it takes to dismantle a tank, and reassemble it. I wouldn't call it that. Pretty simple if you know how to use a caulking gun and a square. You should try it, you're great with math! =)

[cugly]

Great job...looking great. .

[Drae]

There are no compounds that will dissolve cured silicone, aside from aircraft stripper.=)[/QUOTE]

I've taken tanks apart with fishing line and goof off. Works like a charm. Lol. My glazer buddy and I are actually in the process of possibly starting a tank manufacturing business. I wasn't trying to rain in your beauty of a tank. .. just a friendly heads up.

[Joe Lydon]

Careful using 1/2" glass on the small tanks. MP10's will fall off if you look at them the wrong way. Seems like a lot of people are looking into the tank building business!

I'm building a 72x24x14 rimless starphire tank next!