Third attempt at setting up QT

[rower4fish]

Hi, I am new to the hobby and have had a lot of experiences already.

I made the unbelievable mistake of putting my first fish directly into my DT after drip acclimation on the advice of LFS.

120g DT

I got 2 stubbie clowns, 1 kole tang, 1 dwarf angel. I had to put them into the hospital tank and treat for ich after about 1 week.

20g long with hob filter, 2 air lines, heater, toys for hiding, ammonia badge.

The plan was to leave the tank fallow 8 weeks, but the tang developed HLLE on day 30. My knowledgeable friend advised I put them back into the DT in the hopes all would be ok, because she felt the tang was stressed. They were all very happy to be back in the DT, but by that night the tang had a white spot on her fin, again. I listened to a lot of people advising me that fish can live with ich in the tank as long as they eat well. It would get bad and disappear for a day here and there, but she was getting worse and worse. Finally, one of the clowns sluffed it's slime coat and was covered in spots the next day.

New QT 45 breeder with 2 hob filters, 2 air lines, heater, toys for hiding, ammonia badge.

Back to the QT (which I had left running.) I treated with Formalin which I was told would kill all the good bacteria (I honestly don't know if it cycled or not - params were good). I ended up doing 10% water changes 2x daily - Ugh ( and a lot more water with the bigger tank!) Everything was going well, until the last week in April. The tang began hiding and I rarely saw her, but she was eating very well. I thought it was ok. May 1st (exactly 30 days like the first time) she looked really bad and I panicked. I put her into my newest 85 gallon tank which had been running for 3 weeks. A last attempt to try to save her without risking my other DT and having to start over again. She died later that day. My friend (mentioned above) did a necropsy and found she had very severe liver disease and flukes. I moved the clowns and angel into the new tank (also on May 1st.) I have not treated them for flukes or done anything else with them. They seem happy and healthy.

I stripped my qt and cleaned it and everything in it, because the water had a white cloudy appearance to it when I decided to move the other fish and water changes weren't helping.

After a couple of days I put new saltwater in at 1.024 and left it in there without any movement. It looked like spider webs were developing in there I was still depressed at losing my tang, she was a really great fish. Yesterday I put 1 of the hob filter (going to replace the other - didn't really work that well), heater, and thermometer in and turned her on. Thought it is about time to consider getting it ready if I am ever going to have more than 3 fish in all that water.

Ok, just to put it out there, I don't know what I'm doing and I do know that.

I have read many, many threads and would like some specific advice to get me in the right direction.

It is my understanding that in a qt situation you can have high levels of the non-toxic ammonia and the badge doesn't show that where the test kits show all ammonia. So, in a qt situation you may have the non-toxic form of ammonia which is not desirable, but probable. Thus I judged the ammonia by the badge.

One of my problems is that the water quality in my qt is terrible. On both qts the ammonia badge would show between 0 and .05ppm. On the first round it even made it as high as .2ppm. I did constant water changes. Both systems got to the point that I could just do once a day water changes, but had to keep the water changes going.

I was considering a hob skimmer. That seems to me like a good addition. What if I need to use medication? Will that cause a problem? I do want to add another hob filter (made for 40 g & I have 45 & it adds cleaning and water flow.)

Please help me if you can point out what I am doing wrong or give me advice.

[ca1ore]

You either need to setup and properly cycle a QT tank and then keep it running or maintain a few filter sponges in your DT sump for when needed for a QT.

[Sonyardo]

I made the unbelievable mistake of putting my first fish directly into my DT after drip acclimation on the advice of LFS]
Hopefully you learned your lesson and don't have to repeat it.

20g long with hob filter, 2 air lines, heater, toys for hiding, ammonia badge.
Sounds like a typical QT set up.

New QT 45 breeder with 2 hob filters, 2 air lines, heater, toys for hiding, ammonia badge.
The second QT will be handy for the time being. It gives you options.

I have read many, many threads and would like some specific advice to get me in the right direction
I suggest picking up a copy of "The conscientious marine aquarist" by Fenner. The forums can quickly send you off in the wrong direction. That will give you a good baseline to work from and then compare info you read on the forums.

It is my understanding that in a qt situation you can have high levels of the non-toxic ammonia and the badge doesn't show that where the test kits show all ammonia. So, in a qt situation you may have the non-toxic form of ammonia which is not desirable, but probable. Thus I judged the ammonia by the badge.
The badge is a good tool for a quick reference. Do what ever it takes to keep ammonia levels to undetectable. I find that I have to use seeded sponge filters in a QT and water changes several times a week to keep the water quality in line in a lightly stocked QT. When it's heavily stocked then things can turn into a nightmare and that's why it's best to prevent the situation from occurring in the first place.

One of my problems is that the water quality in my qt is terrible. On both qts the ammonia badge would show between 0 and .05ppm. On the first round it even made it as high as .2ppm. I did constant water changes. Both systems got to the point that I could just do once a day water changes, but had to keep the water changes going.
Seeded sponge filters will help to convert ammonia to nitrites between regular water changes during the QT process. I seed the sponge filter by placing it into an established tank for a couple of weeks before using it. The seeded filter makes a big difference in the manageability of the QT. Keep the QT stable as you can and well aerated. Regular water changes, seeded filter and keeping un eaten food siphoned out of the tank will all help to keep water quality better.

I was considering a hob skimmer. That seems to me like a good addition. What if I need to use medication? Will that cause a problem? I do want to add another hob filter (made for 40 g & I have 45 & it adds cleaning and water flow.)
A Hob filter with a sponge in it and or other media that can be seeded is a good additon to the QT. Again the key is to seed the filter media in an established tank for at least a couple of weeks before moving it to the QT. As far as meds go, some meds will wipe out the beneficial bacteria on the filter sponges and other won't. You will have to research that and make an action plan around it. I try to avoid meds that kill off the beneficial bacteria as much as possible. Then consider treating with stronger meds in a dedicated hospital tank and the less intense treatments can be carried out in a regular QT. For example Copper in a dedicated hospital tank only when necessary and all fish get treated with PraziPro in the common QT. If you must use one tank for all then consider pulling the seeded filter sponges during the aggressive treatments and only after water changes and carbon filtering replace the seeded filters to restore ammonia processing to the QT. Just food for thoughts.

My typical approach for new fish is to treat for worms in a QT for a couple of weeks. Then slowly lower the salinity over several days for hyposalinity for roughly 6 weeks of observation. During the first two weeks of worm treatment it's an excellent time to monitor for signs of diseases or parasites. Treat accordingly. My hypotreatment is usually just a proactive gentle observation period with the benefit of eliminating ICH so that it doesn't get introduced into the DT. Most of the nastier stuff would have surfaced in the first couple of weeks during the worm treatment anyways. At least that's what I like to tell myself

At this point,If it were mine, I would assume the DT is infected with ICH and worms and would treat all the fish out of the DT for 8 weeks. You have options but that's what I would do. Then go from there.

Good luck

[rower4fish]

Then consider treating with stronger meds in a dedicated hospital tank and the less intense treatments can be carried out in a regular QT.
That is a great idea. I can just keep an empty tank and equipment in the basement for emergencies and siphon off DT water for quick access to the tank.

I wondered what those sponges were for I guess you just keep some in the DT sump? I think I will keep them in the aquarium that hasn't been introduced to the ich

[rower4fish]

Do the worms infect the aquariums or just the fish, because as you know these fish have been in both of my DTs? I did treat the fish with Formalin in the qt both times every other day for 3 tx.

Do I need to treat the fish again with anything?

Thank you for the great advice

[Sonyardo]

I think I will keep them in the aquarium that hasn't been introduced to the ich
That's a good idea assuming the tank is cycled with established beneficial bacteria.

Do I need to treat the fish again with anything?
If you followed the directions on the bottle and finished the treatment then the main thing is the observation period for the fish. I would treat with Prazipro for a couple of weeks of observation at this point. Then it's just a matter of breaking the life cycle of the parasites that you were dealing with in the DT.

Do the worms infect the aquariums or just the fish, because as you know these fish have been in both of my DTs?
I'm not sure of the worm/fluke life-cycle. I know some people have treated for worms/flukes in the DT but that has the potential to cause problems. It can kill off beneficial worms and ornamental worms. That has to potential to cause an ammonia spike and the tank to recycle. Not a big deal if the tank is empty but could be a big problem for an established tank full of livestock.

[rower4fish]

Thank you.