Thinking of throwing in the towel!

tigershark80228 · 07/01/2013, 06:02 PM

Hi....I'm thinking of throwing in the towel. I'm not 'new', per se', but have never been able to keep any of my water within parameters with a simple FOWLR tank! My ammonia is 0, but my nitrates are OFF the charts. I've done water change after water change. - Did a 10 gallon one today. I've got about 30lbs of LR and a sandbed of about 2-inches (sand and crushed coral). I was using a Penquin 200 bio-wheel filter but the impeller sheered in half and I've had to use a canister until i can get a new impeller. The fish...one Foxface (small), 3 yellowtail damsels and one green cromis. The light is just a fluorescent bulb.

Ideas? Suggestions....anything?? I'd like to have a reef tank but if I can't even keep a fowlr tank......

Thanks.

Griznock · 07/01/2013, 06:08 PM

what size of tank?

bnumair · 07/01/2013, 06:12 PM

let get this right... ur giving up on Nitrates?
if so that can be fixed with chaeto algae or vodka, vinegar,sugar dosing etc or if u wanna go fancy then denitrators or biopellets.
what size tank do u have and what r the nitrate levels?
also what are ur feeding habbits?

Flippers4pups · 07/01/2013, 06:13 PM

Okay, I'll bite. How long has the tank been up and running?

Selkoner · 07/01/2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigershark80228

Hi....I'm thinking of throwing in the towel. I'm not 'new', per se', but have never been able to keep any of my water within parameters with a simple FOWLR tank! My ammonia is 0, but my nitrates are OFF the charts. I've done water change after water change. - Did a 10 gallon one today. I've got about 30lbs of LR and a sandbed of about 2-inches (sand and crushed coral). I was using a Penquin 200 bio-wheel filter but the impeller sheered in half and I've had to use a canister until i can get a new impeller. The fish...one Foxface (small), 3 yellowtail damsels and one green cromis. The light is just a fluorescent bulb.

Ideas? Suggestions....anything?? I'd like to have a reef tank but if I can't even keep a fowlr tank......

Thanks.

Do you have a RO system ?

Clam guy · 07/01/2013, 06:16 PM

If the bio wheel and canister aren't cleaned frequently that could be part of your problem with the high nitrates. If ur gonna use them for mechanical filtration keep them clean.

tigershark80228 · 07/01/2013, 06:45 PM

Sorry, guys. Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I deleted the size tank when I was editing....it's a 30 gallon and its been up and running for about 2 years. Nitrates are always high and I always have a lot of green algae. I wasn't using the bio-wheel and canister together, just started using canister when bio-wheel impeller broke.

tigershark80228 · 07/01/2013, 06:47 PM

Feeding one cube of frozen brine shrimp in the am and one in the evening. I also put in some thawed spinach leaves for the Foxface tied to the LR.

TomTheWicked · 07/01/2013, 06:48 PM

Are you using RO/DI water?

Also, you're probably over-feeding but I'll let someone with more experience speak more directly to that.

Pet Detective · 07/01/2013, 07:03 PM

Nitrates are not a real issue as you been up & running for 2 years with no ill effect to your fish, why all of a sudden is it a problem now? My 250g FOWLR has tons of nitrates, I don't give it a second thought, it's a matter of more fish, waste & food than your or my system can rid itself of in a timely manner, they just keep building up, again no big deal, it's a non issue period.

Starting a reef requires you to watch other parameters, calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, potassium etc. a bit of nitrates is incidental, keep in mind the fewer fish = less feeding = less waste = less maintenance = less nitrates, which still are nothing to worry about.

tigershark80228 · 07/01/2013, 07:11 PM

Yes, I buy RO H2O at my LFS for water changes. I want to be able to keep my water within parameters so I can add some more inverts and they don't die....all the crabs and a good number of snails and hermits all croak within a month or two of talk g the plunge. I drip acclimate them.

zoafarm · 07/01/2013, 07:32 PM

Don't quite.

IMHO you are over feeding. This is contributing to your algae problem. I would cut way back on your feeding. I would test the LFS RO water for nitrates and phosphates...sometimes they push their filters too much. I know you are concentrating on Nitrates, but I bet your phosphates are high as well. And the two together equals algae. You can beat this problem.

ahmer1781 · 07/01/2013, 07:33 PM

I have a 90 and feed only half a cube per day for my 8 fish along with some pellets, overfeeding sounds right. Do you have a CUC?

oscarinw · 07/01/2013, 07:59 PM

Your canister filter can also be a hidden problem. Very, let me repeat VERY periodic cleaning is necessary to keep 'trates under control. I agree with the others in that you are overfeeding.

E Rosewater · 07/01/2013, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigershark80228

Feeding one cube of frozen brine shrimp in the am and one in the evening. I also put in some thawed spinach leaves for the Foxface tied to the LR.

That's about what I feed my 200gal.

Also try to turn off filters when you feed so you're not sucking up the food where it will rot.

tigershark80228 · 07/01/2013, 08:45 PM

Thanks. I'll cut back on the feeding and I put a phosphate pad in the canister today with my 10 gallon h2o change. And I'll test the lfs to h2o too. Thanks again.

phinfan8 · 07/01/2013, 08:49 PM

I don't feed that much in my 160 gallon.

hollister · 07/01/2013, 09:13 PM

Fish can withstand poor water quailty more then coral. Also would not change more then 25 % per month.

Whats used for water flow in thier? Any powerheads and do you have a lid on the tank?

wnppmy · 07/02/2013, 02:59 AM

My system is smaller and over fed at the start. Always vigilance, extra water change in early stages.

Mine are fed every other day and back to back Tues Wed. My feed is what's consumed under a minute but least 3 on feed days. Some live brine weekly very careful dose plankton.

Good Luck!

Spyderturbo007 · 07/02/2013, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigershark80228

Feeding one cube of frozen brine shrimp in the am and one in the evening. I also put in some thawed spinach leaves for the Foxface tied to the LR.

Not to derail your thread or anything, but I would suggest some different food. Brine shrimp are the nutritional equivalent of potato chips. So you'll want to provide something of higher nutrition for your fish. I do feed Brine Shrimp, but only a little at a time for a treat.

SaltWater226 · 07/02/2013, 06:08 AM

get a phosban reactor to stop the algae

Kyle918 · 07/02/2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigershark80228

Yes, I buy RO H2O at my LFS for water changes. I want to be able to keep my water within parameters so I can add some more inverts and they don't die....all the crabs and a good number of snails and hermits all croak within a month or two of talk g the plunge. I drip acclimate them.

Do you test your RO water before adding it to the tank? What is the TDS of that RO water? I've heard many lfs dont changing their filters as often as they should because fish alone are not that sensitive to nitrates and phosphates. I've also read of a lfs that provided services to clean your fish tank and they would do the water changes with their RO water that was nitrate heavy thus fueling the need for the maintenance worker to come over and clean every week.

I'd test the water then figure out if your food is high in phosphates.

raybyrne67 · 07/02/2013, 03:38 PM

I would think about getting a HOB protein skimmer and using the canister for activated carbon or phosguard.

Tuton · 07/02/2013, 04:13 PM

My 55 with three fish gets 1/8 a cube twice a day....sounds about right for your system

kurt_n · 07/02/2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle918

Do you test your RO water before adding it to the tank? ...

This.

Easiest thing to do at this point is test a fresh batch of salt water before you do a water change. Narrow down where your nitrates are coming from. It might be overfeeding, but until you rule out the source water, its just a guess.

07/01/2013, 06:02 PM	#1
tigershark80228 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10	Thinking of throwing in the towel! Hi....I'm thinking of throwing in the towel. I'm not 'new', per se', but have never been able to keep any of my water within parameters with a simple FOWLR tank! My ammonia is 0, but my nitrates are OFF the charts. I've done water change after water change. - Did a 10 gallon one today. I've got about 30lbs of LR and a sandbed of about 2-inches (sand and crushed coral). I was using a Penquin 200 bio-wheel filter but the impeller sheered in half and I've had to use a canister until i can get a new impeller. The fish...one Foxface (small), 3 yellowtail damsels and one green cromis. The light is just a fluorescent bulb. Ideas? Suggestions....anything?? I'd like to have a reef tank but if I can't even keep a fowlr tank...... Thanks.

07/01/2013, 06:12 PM	#3
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	let get this right... ur giving up on Nitrates? if so that can be fixed with chaeto algae or vodka, vinegar,sugar dosing etc or if u wanna go fancy then denitrators or biopellets. what size tank do u have and what r the nitrate levels? also what are ur feeding habbits? __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

07/01/2013, 06:13 PM	#4
Flippers4pups Home made abyss Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lake Saint Louis, MO Posts: 2,047	Okay, I'll bite. How long has the tank been up and running? __________________ Don Reefing since 1993 Current Tank info: 125 gallon DT , 125 gallon basement sump. Rw 15 & Rw 8. Panworld 150ps return. Reef Octopus 150 skimmer, 3 165w mars aqua led.

07/01/2013, 06:48 PM	#9
TomTheWicked Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Frednecksburg, VA Posts: 170	Are you using RO/DI water? Also, you're probably over-feeding but I'll let someone with more experience speak more directly to that. __________________ "If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is" Current Tank Info: 40B w/20G sump, custom stand

07/01/2013, 07:33 PM	#13
ahmer1781 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Quincy, MA but work in Tewksbury, MA Posts: 71	I have a 90 and feed only half a cube per day for my 8 fish along with some pellets, overfeeding sounds right. Do you have a CUC? __________________ starting up a 90 gallon with a 30 gallon sump

07/01/2013, 06:08 PM	#2
Griznock Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Tulsa,Oklahoma Posts: 121	what size of tank?

07/01/2013, 06:16 PM	#6
Clam guy Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 63	If the bio wheel and canister aren't cleaned frequently that could be part of your problem with the high nitrates. If ur gonna use them for mechanical filtration keep them clean.

07/01/2013, 06:45 PM	#7
tigershark80228 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10	Sorry, guys. Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I deleted the size tank when I was editing....it's a 30 gallon and its been up and running for about 2 years. Nitrates are always high and I always have a lot of green algae. I wasn't using the bio-wheel and canister together, just started using canister when bio-wheel impeller broke.

07/01/2013, 06:47 PM	#8
tigershark80228 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10	Feeding one cube of frozen brine shrimp in the am and one in the evening. I also put in some thawed spinach leaves for the Foxface tied to the LR.

07/01/2013, 07:03 PM	#10
Pet Detective Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 328	Nitrates are not a real issue as you been up & running for 2 years with no ill effect to your fish, why all of a sudden is it a problem now? My 250g FOWLR has tons of nitrates, I don't give it a second thought, it's a matter of more fish, waste & food than your or my system can rid itself of in a timely manner, they just keep building up, again no big deal, it's a non issue period. Starting a reef requires you to watch other parameters, calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, potassium etc. a bit of nitrates is incidental, keep in mind the fewer fish = less feeding = less waste = less maintenance = less nitrates, which still are nothing to worry about.

07/01/2013, 07:11 PM	#11
tigershark80228 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10	Yes, I buy RO H2O at my LFS for water changes. I want to be able to keep my water within parameters so I can add some more inverts and they don't die....all the crabs and a good number of snails and hermits all croak within a month or two of talk g the plunge. I drip acclimate them.

07/01/2013, 07:32 PM	#12
zoafarm Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 306	Don't quite. IMHO you are over feeding. This is contributing to your algae problem. I would cut way back on your feeding. I would test the LFS RO water for nitrates and phosphates...sometimes they push their filters too much. I know you are concentrating on Nitrates, but I bet your phosphates are high as well. And the two together equals algae. You can beat this problem.

07/01/2013, 07:59 PM	#14
oscarinw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Western Massachusetts Posts: 1,091	Your canister filter can also be a hidden problem. Very, let me repeat VERY periodic cleaning is necessary to keep 'trates under control. I agree with the others in that you are overfeeding.

07/01/2013, 08:45 PM	#16
tigershark80228 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10	Thanks. I'll cut back on the feeding and I put a phosphate pad in the canister today with my 10 gallon h2o change. And I'll test the lfs to h2o too. Thanks again.

07/01/2013, 08:49 PM	#17
phinfan8 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 97	I don't feed that much in my 160 gallon.

07/01/2013, 09:13 PM	#18
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	Fish can withstand poor water quailty more then coral. Also would not change more then 25 % per month. Whats used for water flow in thier? Any powerheads and do you have a lid on the tank?

07/02/2013, 02:59 AM	#19
wnppmy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 257	My system is smaller and over fed at the start. Always vigilance, extra water change in early stages. Mine are fed every other day and back to back Tues Wed. My feed is what's consumed under a minute but least 3 on feed days. Some live brine weekly very careful dose plankton. Good Luck!

07/02/2013, 06:08 AM	#21
SaltWater226 Registered Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Hell Posts: 352	get a phosban reactor to stop the algae

07/02/2013, 03:38 PM	#23
raybyrne67 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 353	I would think about getting a HOB protein skimmer and using the canister for activated carbon or phosguard. __________________ Ray, Current Tank Info: 75G, Salinity 1.025, Temp 80.5, Ca 430, Alk 9, Mg 1260, mixed reef, Radion XR30w Gen 2 x2, MP10w ES x2,Vertex 130, Eheim 1260 return, Apex, Tunze ATO

07/02/2013, 04:13 PM	#24
Tuton Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 348	My 55 with three fish gets 1/8 a cube twice a day....sounds about right for your system __________________ "In this hobby nothing good happens fast" Tank Info: 55 Gallon Mixed Reef, 20 gallon sump