didnt wait for it to cycle...

mattkroeker · 07/07/2013, 04:59 PM

im a newbie. i only had my live rocks (15 lbs) in the tank (29 gal) for two weeks before adding fish (two clowns) and coral also i got 20 lbs of live sand in the tank. im @ 4 weeks now. and everything seems to be running halfway smoothly so far. did a 5 gal water exchange today and last sunday.

is there anything i can do to correct the error of not waiting 8-12 weeks for the live rock to cycle? my nitrates and nitrites are both reading zero. as well as ammonia.

i picked up a 4oz bottle of StartSmart Complete (4oz) should i add any of this? would it benefit my live rocks? would it clear up my foggy tank? (hoping the change i did today will)

bellis31 · 07/07/2013, 05:06 PM

If it was truly live rock you may not see a cycle depending on how much die off you suffered from having the live rock out of water for a period of time.

Ammonia is the the thing you should be testing for if your at all concerned about the fish, this will hurt them the most.

If I were you I would test and wait for things to clear up. If you do find ammonia then do a water change but for the most part just keep an eye on it through testing.

Live rock can cycle very fast sometimes, BUT your bio load can over throw this in a new tank. Take it slow....

mattkroeker · 07/07/2013, 05:14 PM

[IMG]http://i40.*******.com/2mwrp7c.jpg[/IMG]

bellis31 · 07/07/2013, 05:14 PM

Looks good...

mattkroeker · 07/07/2013, 05:21 PM

Thanks for the response. I have been testing for ammonia every other day for the past week and its i believe zero. I have a API test kit and its colour is the about the same as lemon lime gatorade.
10 lbs of the 'live rock' was purchased inside of a LFS tank and the other 5lbs were 'dry live rock'. Should i buy more live rock from the LFS? would adding live rocks into this tank that already is cycled? be harmful ? I have no idea if my tank cycled (its 4 weeks old)

BlindZide · 07/07/2013, 05:23 PM

If you add the new rock a little at a time it shouldn't start another cycle and if it does it will be minimal.

Tank looks good man. Keep at it!

Sk8r · 07/07/2013, 05:36 PM

If you see ammonia, pull the fish and any inverts out to quarantine tank with new water immediate and wait for it to settle. Ammonia exposure can damage organs.

mattkroeker · 07/07/2013, 05:39 PM

ive heard that no nitrates and nitrites = no ammonia is that correct?
what would happen if my tank doesnt cycle?

tallball158 · 07/07/2013, 06:15 PM

Just through my experiences and several API test kits, they always have that lime green look, and it will always say you have ammonia. I would recommend getting a better test kit. If your rock was live, you might have a minimal cycle.

Breadman03 · 07/07/2013, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattkroeker

ive heard that no nitrates and nitrites = no ammonia is that correct?
what would happen if my tank doesnt cycle?

No, not necessarily. The nitrogen cycle starts with ammonia, which builds up until the bacteria that process it into nitrites build up enough to consume all of it. Then the same thing with nitrites, then nitrates. If the live rock you purchased had enough bacteria to process the ammonia generated by your livestock, there wouldn't necessarily be another cycle.

For example, when I moved, I kept my corals and LR in one tank and my fish in another tank using a canister filter with Seachem Matrix media. When I put everything into my 75, I didn't have a cycle because I used LR (and filter media) that was capable of supporting everything in my tank.

I wouldn't worry too much at this point as it has been populated for 2 weeks already, but an ammonia alert badge would make it easier for you to monitor for ammonia without having to test. I actually have 2 in my sump, mostly so that they are available for me to use in a QT for any new purchases.

mattkroeker · 07/07/2013, 06:51 PM

which ammonia test kit would you guys recommend besides api? and which ammonia alert badge would you recommend?

is the badge very accurate ? ( i like the sound of this type of product)
thanks

EddieJ · 07/07/2013, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattkroeker

which ammonia test kit would you guys recommend besides api? and which ammonia alert badge would you recommend?

is the badge very accurate ? ( i like the sound of this type of product)
thanks

The Seachem badge and test kit are excellent..

Fishphish69 · 07/07/2013, 06:58 PM

Tank looks good. Don't worry just do water changes.

mattkroeker · 07/07/2013, 07:03 PM

thanx guys i will change the water weekly and will try to get Seachem badge alert. Any suggestion is appreciated.

Sn8kbyt · 07/07/2013, 11:11 PM

I have an API and seachem test kit and used both when starting up my tank just to see if one was better than the other. The only difference I saw was when testing NO3.

"Lemon lime gatorade color" on an API test kit would indicate more than 0ppm less than .25ppm ammonia. I would go with what everyone else has said above, but by your description you have some ammonia in the tank.

Tank looks great though I like how you have it setup. Go slow, stay on top of testing, and be prepared for the worst. It would be a shame to lose any of the nice things you have in that tank.

brandon429 · 07/08/2013, 08:10 AM

There is no free ammonia here or the corals wouldn't open. Haze is most likely substrate silt

Palting · 07/08/2013, 08:51 AM

Well, you certainly rushed it. 4 week old tank, and you have 2 clowns, several softie coral, even what looks like a candycane coral.

Good news is nothing seems to have died so far, so you may have gotten lucky. But, don't push your luck. Sometimes it takes a while for fish and coral to succumb and die from bad conditions. Definitely do not buy any more coral nor fish until that ammonia reads zero, nitrites read zero, and you see some nitrate. I would suggest doing multiple large water changes to get that ammonia to read zero, feed really sparingly, treat the tank like an emergency QT.

mattkroeker · 07/08/2013, 05:45 PM

[IMG]http://i44.*******.com/2mq3vkk.jpg[/IMG]

ph, ammonia, nitrate

can anyone tell if my levels are okay?

bellis31 · 07/08/2013, 05:48 PM

PH can be from 8.0 to 8.3 so you look good there... Ammonia should always be 0 in a cycled tank and it looks like it is. Nitrates should be 0 - 5.0 and it looks like you have that covered also!!

mattkroeker · 07/08/2013, 06:06 PM

thanks! now i feel much better :-)

brandon429 · 07/08/2013, 09:38 PM

Matt thanks for those pics. I'm comparing API zero readings across a few different posters so that helps. Yours does indeed look zero. Other API readings posted looked greener which caused about ten extra pages of type lol but it was helpful to see your readings.

brandon429 · 07/08/2013, 09:41 PM

Your rocks appear to have been aged in great conditions

The coralline is exceptional. The time it takes to grow that much coralline is months/years underwater, without drying out, so thats how we know the bacteria were fully cycled. Closer inspection will reveal some pods, a few sabellid micro fan worms etc. its more than likely always been in saltwater as that appears to be cured ocean live rock which is what I have. The shrimp you have are an ammonia alert animal

They will die if you ever get any...if they live it speaks well of your tank conditions regarding ammonia its nice to know biological test mechanisms along with chemical ones

Sn8kbyt · 07/09/2013, 01:05 AM

Matt by your "gatorade" description I was also thinking greener and hence a higher reading. What I see is def 0-0-0 on an API test kit. Thanks for the pic!!

michfish5 · 07/09/2013, 05:15 PM

I noticed the rocks as well but I was wondering if they were RealReef rocks? They look so clean and there is so much purple. I plan on using RealReef in my own tank. My LFS insists that it will cycle much quicker than regular live rock with no hithchikers and less die off.

mattkroeker · 07/09/2013, 05:33 PM

good question - id like to know myself :-0 (noob alert)
can anyone tell me if mine is real or not? how do you know for sure?

my LFS told me the purple means its more mature - they picked it for me.

07/07/2013, 04:59 PM	#1
mattkroeker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	didnt wait for it to cycle... im a newbie. i only had my live rocks (15 lbs) in the tank (29 gal) for two weeks before adding fish (two clowns) and coral also i got 20 lbs of live sand in the tank. im @ 4 weeks now. and everything seems to be running halfway smoothly so far. did a 5 gal water exchange today and last sunday. is there anything i can do to correct the error of not waiting 8-12 weeks for the live rock to cycle? my nitrates and nitrites are both reading zero. as well as ammonia. i picked up a 4oz bottle of StartSmart Complete (4oz) should i add any of this? would it benefit my live rocks? would it clear up my foggy tank? (hoping the change i did today will)

07/07/2013, 05:06 PM	#2
bellis31 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sacramento, Ca Posts: 1,021	If it was truly live rock you may not see a cycle depending on how much die off you suffered from having the live rock out of water for a period of time. Ammonia is the the thing you should be testing for if your at all concerned about the fish, this will hurt them the most. If I were you I would test and wait for things to clear up. If you do find ammonia then do a water change but for the most part just keep an eye on it through testing. Live rock can cycle very fast sometimes, BUT your bio load can over throw this in a new tank. Take it slow.... __________________ 80g Custom + 29g Sump BM Curve 5 Skimmer - Eheim 1262 Return Pump 2 Vortech MP10wes + 2 Vortech MP40wes 2 Radion G3's + Apex Jr Controller + WXM

07/07/2013, 05:14 PM	#4
bellis31 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sacramento, Ca Posts: 1,021	Looks good... __________________ 80g Custom + 29g Sump BM Curve 5 Skimmer - Eheim 1262 Return Pump 2 Vortech MP10wes + 2 Vortech MP40wes 2 Radion G3's + Apex Jr Controller + WXM

07/07/2013, 05:23 PM	#6
BlindZide Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 1,273	If you add the new rock a little at a time it shouldn't start another cycle and if it does it will be minimal. Tank looks good man. Keep at it! __________________ ~Trent Biocube 14 Mixed Reef 75G LPS Reef

07/07/2013, 05:36 PM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	If you see ammonia, pull the fish and any inverts out to quarantine tank with new water immediate and wait for it to settle. Ammonia exposure can damage organs. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/07/2013, 05:21 PM	#5
mattkroeker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	Thanks for the response. I have been testing for ammonia every other day for the past week and its i believe zero. I have a API test kit and its colour is the about the same as lemon lime gatorade. 10 lbs of the 'live rock' was purchased inside of a LFS tank and the other 5lbs were 'dry live rock'. Should i buy more live rock from the LFS? would adding live rocks into this tank that already is cycled? be harmful ? I have no idea if my tank cycled (its 4 weeks old)

07/07/2013, 05:39 PM	#8
mattkroeker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	ive heard that no nitrates and nitrites = no ammonia is that correct? what would happen if my tank doesnt cycle? Last edited by mattkroeker; 07/07/2013 at 05:52 PM.

07/07/2013, 06:15 PM	#9
tallball158 Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: South Carolina Posts: 456	Just through my experiences and several API test kits, they always have that lime green look, and it will always say you have ammonia. I would recommend getting a better test kit. If your rock was live, you might have a minimal cycle.

07/07/2013, 06:51 PM	#11
mattkroeker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	which ammonia test kit would you guys recommend besides api? and which ammonia alert badge would you recommend? is the badge very accurate ? ( i like the sound of this type of product) thanks

07/07/2013, 06:58 PM	#13
Fishphish69 Registered Member. Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 31	Tank looks good. Don't worry just do water changes.

07/07/2013, 07:03 PM	#14
mattkroeker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	thanx guys i will change the water weekly and will try to get Seachem badge alert. Any suggestion is appreciated.

07/07/2013, 11:11 PM	#15
Sn8kbyt Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Manitowoc, WI Posts: 607	I have an API and seachem test kit and used both when starting up my tank just to see if one was better than the other. The only difference I saw was when testing NO3. "Lemon lime gatorade color" on an API test kit would indicate more than 0ppm less than .25ppm ammonia. I would go with what everyone else has said above, but by your description you have some ammonia in the tank. Tank looks great though I like how you have it setup. Go slow, stay on top of testing, and be prepared for the worst. It would be a shame to lose any of the nice things you have in that tank.

07/08/2013, 08:10 AM	#16
brandon429 Registered Member. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3,460	There is no free ammonia here or the corals wouldn't open. Haze is most likely substrate silt

07/08/2013, 08:51 AM	#17
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	Well, you certainly rushed it. 4 week old tank, and you have 2 clowns, several softie coral, even what looks like a candycane coral. Good news is nothing seems to have died so far, so you may have gotten lucky. But, don't push your luck. Sometimes it takes a while for fish and coral to succumb and die from bad conditions. Definitely do not buy any more coral nor fish until that ammonia reads zero, nitrites read zero, and you see some nitrate. I would suggest doing multiple large water changes to get that ammonia to read zero, feed really sparingly, treat the tank like an emergency QT. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam

07/08/2013, 05:45 PM	#18
mattkroeker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	[IMG]http://i44.*******.com/2mq3vkk.jpg[/IMG] ph, ammonia, nitrate can anyone tell if my levels are okay?

07/08/2013, 05:48 PM	#19
bellis31 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sacramento, Ca Posts: 1,021	PH can be from 8.0 to 8.3 so you look good there... Ammonia should always be 0 in a cycled tank and it looks like it is. Nitrates should be 0 - 5.0 and it looks like you have that covered also!! __________________ 80g Custom + 29g Sump BM Curve 5 Skimmer - Eheim 1262 Return Pump 2 Vortech MP10wes + 2 Vortech MP40wes 2 Radion G3's + Apex Jr Controller + WXM

07/08/2013, 06:06 PM	#20
mattkroeker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	thanks! now i feel much better :-)

07/08/2013, 09:38 PM	#21
brandon429 Registered Member. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3,460	Matt thanks for those pics. I'm comparing API zero readings across a few different posters so that helps. Yours does indeed look zero. Other API readings posted looked greener which caused about ten extra pages of type lol but it was helpful to see your readings.

07/08/2013, 09:41 PM	#22
brandon429 Registered Member. Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3,460	Your rocks appear to have been aged in great conditions The coralline is exceptional. The time it takes to grow that much coralline is months/years underwater, without drying out, so thats how we know the bacteria were fully cycled. Closer inspection will reveal some pods, a few sabellid micro fan worms etc. its more than likely always been in saltwater as that appears to be cured ocean live rock which is what I have. The shrimp you have are an ammonia alert animal They will die if you ever get any...if they live it speaks well of your tank conditions regarding ammonia its nice to know biological test mechanisms along with chemical ones Last edited by brandon429; 07/08/2013 at 09:48 PM.

07/09/2013, 01:05 AM	#23
Sn8kbyt Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Manitowoc, WI Posts: 607	Matt by your "gatorade" description I was also thinking greener and hence a higher reading. What I see is def 0-0-0 on an API test kit. Thanks for the pic!!

07/09/2013, 05:15 PM	#24
michfish5 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 167	I noticed the rocks as well but I was wondering if they were RealReef rocks? They look so clean and there is so much purple. I plan on using RealReef in my own tank. My LFS insists that it will cycle much quicker than regular live rock with no hithchikers and less die off.

07/09/2013, 05:33 PM	#25
mattkroeker Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	good question - id like to know myself :-0 (noob alert) can anyone tell me if mine is real or not? how do you know for sure? my LFS told me the purple means its more mature - they picked it for me. Last edited by mattkroeker; 07/09/2013 at 05:41 PM.