Sump/display ratio and plumbing theory???

Saltydrip · 08/07/2013, 05:40 AM

I don't run a skimmer so I'm partial to a fuge that sees 100% of the glow threw my system. I have about a 25gallon fuge under my 75g display. I run all my water threw the fuge so it all gets filtered. The system runs about 450-500gph so it's not going too crazy.

I notice a lot is larger systems running manifolds that plumb water into the fuge after the pump. That doesn't make sense to me. After its been thre the fuge it should return to the DT to pick up more waste. I see it as a loop before the DT that will always have a % that never gets back to the DT thus reducing the efficiency of the system.

Why is it done this way??

mr.maroonsalty · 08/07/2013, 06:06 AM

Follow the leader plumbing diagrams.

Fizz71 · 08/07/2013, 06:10 AM

I think the main reason is that a flow through a fuge does not mean the water coming out has a nitrate of 0. So it doesn't matter if all the sump water passes through it, just more than the macro can clean at one pass. It's REPEATED passes through the fuge that eventually reduces the overall nitrates.

It's like your skimmer, not ALL of the water coming back through the tank goes through the skimmer, but enough of it. Recirc skimmers process even LESS water an hour because it has been found that reprocessing the same water longer is more efficient.

thegrun · 08/07/2013, 07:08 AM

A slower water speed through the refugium actually increases (to a point) its efficiency as longer contact time with the algae and live rock bacteria is a good thing. The thing to keep in mind is that a large refugium can handle a lot more total flow than a smaller one. If you have a small refugium in proportion to your DT you should go with a lower flow. If you have a large fuge then a much higher flow is fine.

mr.maroonsalty · 08/07/2013, 07:32 AM

Sure, but it does make way more sense to use a drain manifold than borrow from the mp in more than one way. It's free, borrowing from the pump is not. If your goal is a fuge to feed your tank, and not so much an algae scrubber why would you want to send x% repeatedly through the mp; like the sock doesn't already dredge enough life from the system. A drain manifold has no operating cost; it's free. I do think, however, that most people do design their plumbing so that either the drain splits, or the mechanical sump exits through the fuge on it way back to the tank. Usually people split off the mp to feed reactors.

Saltydrip · 08/07/2013, 07:41 AM

I have been debating a drain manifold myself. I think that's the way ill be plumbing things when I move.

ca1ore · 08/07/2013, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrun

A slower water speed through the refugium actually increases (to a point) its efficiency as longer contact time with the algae and live rock bacteria is a good thing.

Frankly, I doubt it makes any difference at all with regard to nutrient removal. Try testing the water coming into the sump/fuge and then the water exiting and I'll eat my hat if there is any material difference. I think it is at Fizz71 suggests: REPEATED passes over time. I've kept FW plant tanks for years, and plants don't magically remove all nutrients from the water at once, they do it slowly as they grow.

Buy a main pump that provides enough flow thru your sump to feed a skimmer and maintain temperature in the DT, and save some electricity by not oversizing it.

08/07/2013, 05:40 AM	#1
Saltydrip Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,826	Sump/display ratio and plumbing theory??? I don't run a skimmer so I'm partial to a fuge that sees 100% of the glow threw my system. I have about a 25gallon fuge under my 75g display. I run all my water threw the fuge so it all gets filtered. The system runs about 450-500gph so it's not going too crazy. I notice a lot is larger systems running manifolds that plumb water into the fuge after the pump. That doesn't make sense to me. After its been thre the fuge it should return to the DT to pick up more waste. I see it as a loop before the DT that will always have a % that never gets back to the DT thus reducing the efficiency of the system. Why is it done this way?? __________________ Current tank 48" 75g DT w/ 55g sump/fuge.

08/07/2013, 06:06 AM	#2
mr.maroonsalty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: upstateny Posts: 2,504	Follow the leader plumbing diagrams. __________________ Back from the dead! Current Tank Info: 140 dt reef

08/07/2013, 06:10 AM	#3
Fizz71 FragSwapper Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Lawn, PA Posts: 5,800	I think the main reason is that a flow through a fuge does not mean the water coming out has a nitrate of 0. So it doesn't matter if all the sump water passes through it, just more than the macro can clean at one pass. It's REPEATED passes through the fuge that eventually reduces the overall nitrates. It's like your skimmer, not ALL of the water coming back through the tank goes through the skimmer, but enough of it. Recirc skimmers process even LESS water an hour because it has been found that reprocessing the same water longer is more efficient. __________________ --Fizz Current Tank Info: Current system is 8x2x2 240g peninsula setup with a single "chamber" 100g sump in the basement with an RDSB. All corals are 100% home grown from frags of fellow reefers (low natural reef impact).

08/07/2013, 07:32 AM	#5
mr.maroonsalty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: upstateny Posts: 2,504	Sure, but it does make way more sense to use a drain manifold than borrow from the mp in more than one way. It's free, borrowing from the pump is not. If your goal is a fuge to feed your tank, and not so much an algae scrubber why would you want to send x% repeatedly through the mp; like the sock doesn't already dredge enough life from the system. A drain manifold has no operating cost; it's free. I do think, however, that most people do design their plumbing so that either the drain splits, or the mechanical sump exits through the fuge on it way back to the tank. Usually people split off the mp to feed reactors. __________________ Back from the dead! Current Tank Info: 140 dt reef

08/07/2013, 07:41 AM	#6
Saltydrip Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,826	I have been debating a drain manifold myself. I think that's the way ill be plumbing things when I move. __________________ Current tank 48" 75g DT w/ 55g sump/fuge.

08/07/2013, 07:08 AM	#4
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	A slower water speed through the refugium actually increases (to a point) its efficiency as longer contact time with the algae and live rock bacteria is a good thing. The thing to keep in mind is that a large refugium can handle a lot more total flow than a smaller one. If you have a small refugium in proportion to your DT you should go with a lower flow. If you have a large fuge then a much higher flow is fine.