"Live" rock still live? (another cycle question)

gmyers0203 · 08/17/2013, 08:25 AM

Hey everyone, I have a fairly good understanding of what is involved in the cycle, especially with all the information in the threads on this forum.

I, however, felt that I needed to seek some advice.

Tank info: 80g DT with 30g sump (approx 100g total water volume)

I recently bought a set up locally from a guy who had the system running for about 2-1/2 to 3 months. The rock already had some coralline and green algae growing on it. I'm assuming that it should have had good bacteria growth in it at that point after the amount of time he had it running. I'm not certain as to whether or not he had fully cycled his tank.

When I bought the tank, he tore it down, and we kept the live rock in saltwater with maybe 15-20 minutes at most that it was out of water. Once I got it home, I set up a storage container with the saltwater, heater, and powerhead for the rock to stay in until I could get the tank set up.

Two weeks later, I was ready to fill the tank with saltwater and put the rock in. It's been about a week and I have been ghost feeding since I set it up. And when I say ghost feeding, I've done small amounts two or three times a day, and at times have just done cubes of brine shrimp.

My thoughts were that I had hopefully salvaged the bacteria in the rock and that it was still "live". Everyday, I have been measuring my basic parameters with an API test kit that I have had for two years. Each time, I kept getting 0 ppm for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I began to wonder if my test kit was bad, because I figured I should at least see some ammonia from all the food I'd been putting in there. (Skimmer is not running).

So because I'd read and also been told that API test kits can be inaccurate and not knowing if my reagents were expired, I ordered a Red Sea Marine Care test kit and tested my water this morning. Everything is still 0 ppm.

Am I wrong in that I should at least expect to see some ammonia? And I was hoping to see some nitrate if my rock was still "live" but nothing.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, I'm not in a rush. But I am confused.

Could it just be that the rock is live, but I haven't been feeding enough to show any traceable amount of nitrate? Or that I'm not feeding enough for the water volume to show any traceable amount of ammonia? Would you expect that I was able to keep the rock "live" having been kept wet even if it was in a dark storage container kept at about 76 degrees? I believe the saltwater was about 1.022.

Just as a side note, I have been feeding my 20 gallon QT for the same amount of time and have ammonia reading according to both test kits.

I apologize for yet another cycle thread, but wasn't sure how to search for my answers and my LFS agreed that I should at least see something at this point. Just wanted some more opinions.

Reefmedic79 · 08/19/2013, 05:15 PM

Yes, your liverock is still alive. Yes, it's possible that your not getting any nitrate or ammonia readings because your not feeding the rock enough, and there is no need to feed it a lot.

Fizz71 · 08/20/2013, 06:52 AM

My understanding of the organisms that consumes nitrate (in rock and sand) is that they are anaerobic (live where there is no oxygen). If you have enough live rock and only a little amount of nutrients being introduced the LR could have enough places to harbor enough anaerobic bacteria to keep up with it. Most of us eventually add more fish than the rock alone can handle and have to add either a DSB/RDSB type setup or other flora that consume it. Edit: Note...you could also have other flora (algea) consuming it.

So the simple answer is "yes"...it's possible the LR is keeping up with the nitrate.

And I kept rock alive and in the dark for MONTHS. It's the same rock in my system now and I never saw a glimpse of ammonia.

If you search on RC you'll also see people that have tested (or started to cycle) their systems by adding pure ammonia. If you want to really know for sure...you could try that. I've never done it.

thegrun · 08/20/2013, 07:35 AM

I suspect the rock is fully cycled so you should not see any ammonia or nitrites. There are likely enough denitrifying bacteria to deal with the nitrates, so they are also testing zero. You can add your cleanup crew, easy to care for hardy corals and your first fish after it clears quarantine. If you want to be absolutely sure your tank has cycled, add a teaspoon of pure ammonia to the tank and test. Your ammonia should spike immediately, but drop back to zero in 24-36 hours.

08/17/2013, 08:25 AM	#1
gmyers0203 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 83	"Live" rock still live? (another cycle question) Hey everyone, I have a fairly good understanding of what is involved in the cycle, especially with all the information in the threads on this forum. I, however, felt that I needed to seek some advice. Tank info: 80g DT with 30g sump (approx 100g total water volume) I recently bought a set up locally from a guy who had the system running for about 2-1/2 to 3 months. The rock already had some coralline and green algae growing on it. I'm assuming that it should have had good bacteria growth in it at that point after the amount of time he had it running. I'm not certain as to whether or not he had fully cycled his tank. When I bought the tank, he tore it down, and we kept the live rock in saltwater with maybe 15-20 minutes at most that it was out of water. Once I got it home, I set up a storage container with the saltwater, heater, and powerhead for the rock to stay in until I could get the tank set up. Two weeks later, I was ready to fill the tank with saltwater and put the rock in. It's been about a week and I have been ghost feeding since I set it up. And when I say ghost feeding, I've done small amounts two or three times a day, and at times have just done cubes of brine shrimp. My thoughts were that I had hopefully salvaged the bacteria in the rock and that it was still "live". Everyday, I have been measuring my basic parameters with an API test kit that I have had for two years. Each time, I kept getting 0 ppm for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. I began to wonder if my test kit was bad, because I figured I should at least see some ammonia from all the food I'd been putting in there. (Skimmer is not running). So because I'd read and also been told that API test kits can be inaccurate and not knowing if my reagents were expired, I ordered a Red Sea Marine Care test kit and tested my water this morning. Everything is still 0 ppm. Am I wrong in that I should at least expect to see some ammonia? And I was hoping to see some nitrate if my rock was still "live" but nothing. Any thoughts would be appreciated, I'm not in a rush. But I am confused. Could it just be that the rock is live, but I haven't been feeding enough to show any traceable amount of nitrate? Or that I'm not feeding enough for the water volume to show any traceable amount of ammonia? Would you expect that I was able to keep the rock "live" having been kept wet even if it was in a dark storage container kept at about 76 degrees? I believe the saltwater was about 1.022. Just as a side note, I have been feeding my 20 gallon QT for the same amount of time and have ammonia reading according to both test kits. I apologize for yet another cycle thread, but wasn't sure how to search for my answers and my LFS agreed that I should at least see something at this point. Just wanted some more opinions. __________________ Born 1/31/2015 \| 120 g Display \| 40 g Custom Sump \| Apex Lite \| RO Skimmer \| 2x MP40s \| Reefbreeders Photon 48 \| Transitioning to 120 \| 80g Deep Blue Edge rimless \| 30g sump \| Apex Lite \| SCA 303 \| Current Tank Info: 80 gallon Deep Blue Rimless mostly LPS at the moment

08/19/2013, 05:15 PM	#2
Reefmedic79 Life and Reef Saver Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Tavares, Florida Posts: 6,202	Yes, your liverock is still alive. Yes, it's possible that your not getting any nitrate or ammonia readings because your not feeding the rock enough, and there is no need to feed it a lot. __________________ ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸. ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> How much deeper would the ocean be if it didn't have sponges? P. Sherman 42 Wallaby Way Sid Current Tank Info: 40 Breeder, 20L Sump, 10G Fuge, JBJ A.T.O, 4" Reef Octopus, DIY Stand & Canopy, RapidLED Dimmable 36 Kit on 3 6" MakersLED Heatsink, MP10es

08/20/2013, 06:52 AM	#3
Fizz71 FragSwapper Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Lawn, PA Posts: 5,800	My understanding of the organisms that consumes nitrate (in rock and sand) is that they are anaerobic (live where there is no oxygen). If you have enough live rock and only a little amount of nutrients being introduced the LR could have enough places to harbor enough anaerobic bacteria to keep up with it. Most of us eventually add more fish than the rock alone can handle and have to add either a DSB/RDSB type setup or other flora that consume it. Edit: Note...you could also have other flora (algea) consuming it. So the simple answer is "yes"...it's possible the LR is keeping up with the nitrate. And I kept rock alive and in the dark for MONTHS. It's the same rock in my system now and I never saw a glimpse of ammonia. If you search on RC you'll also see people that have tested (or started to cycle) their systems by adding pure ammonia. If you want to really know for sure...you could try that. I've never done it. __________________ --Fizz Current Tank Info: Current system is 8x2x2 240g peninsula setup with a single "chamber" 100g sump in the basement with an RDSB. All corals are 100% home grown from frags of fellow reefers (low natural reef impact).

08/20/2013, 07:35 AM	#4
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	I suspect the rock is fully cycled so you should not see any ammonia or nitrites. There are likely enough denitrifying bacteria to deal with the nitrates, so they are also testing zero. You can add your cleanup crew, easy to care for hardy corals and your first fish after it clears quarantine. If you want to be absolutely sure your tank has cycled, add a teaspoon of pure ammonia to the tank and test. Your ammonia should spike immediately, but drop back to zero in 24-36 hours.