I think a big water change did me in

dtaranath · 09/16/2013, 09:01 PM

my fellow reefers,

So, here I am. Where nobody EVER wants to be. Over the past week, all my SPS has stopped growing and started to bleach. All my LPS is retracting. Inverts and fish seem to be fine. So much coral death is happening before my eyes, and I don't know how to stop it.

It started about 1 week ago. I removed the sump from my system to fix a baffle, using a temporary sump in its place. In the process, I ended up doing about a 30-40% water change. I checked temp and SG, and both were equal to the tank. However, I didn't check alkalinity. My alk is now reading 6.7, and I think it was around 8 before this. Although, I will admit, it has been some time since I checked my alk, so I'm not 100% sure.

All other parameters were within normal range (nitrates, phosphates, ammonia, nitrites, all zero). I even checked for stray voltage also, and that was zero. No exposure to chemicals. No sand beds that got stirred up.

Is there any way to get things back to normal? Should I slowly start adding alk back to the system? I'm afraid to do anything right now, including any more water changes. But at this rate, everything is going to die.

I'm posting this in this forum so hopefully all new reefers can learn from my mistake. I'm also hoping someone out there will be able to help me find some sort of solution, or direction to take.

Here's a BEFORE pic, taken about a week ago:

You don't want to see what it looks like now.

This is so depressing.

If any of you have any recommendations, please help me!!!

FsuNole · 09/16/2013, 09:30 PM

I have no experience in the matter but your tank was looking great! Hope someone is able to help you get it back!

pkirby · 09/17/2013, 04:59 AM

30-40% is a large water change... But I've done back to back 50% water changes without issue... Just like you and made sure salinity and temp matched and then went with it... I personally never had any problems with this... It could be a result of the water change, but I'd be nervous if the temp sump was clean or if there was residue or something from a cleaner on it...
Do you run carbon? If not I'd put some in there... I'd also pick up a polyfilter.
I'm sorry bud, your tank did look great! Crashes can happen to the best of us though.... Hopefully you can get it under control quickly :-/

Spyderturbo007 · 09/17/2013, 07:33 AM

Can you post a full battery of test results, including Nitrite, pH and Ammonia? You said you fixed your sump....What did you do and did it involve any chemicals?

I'm in agreement with pkirby. I would get some GAC and a PolyFilter in there ASAP to pull any type of contamination out of the tank.

Have any fish gone missing lately? Did you add live rock or do some aquascaping recently?

I would also recommend calibrating your refractometer if possible and double check your thermometer if you have access to a spare.

dtaranath · 09/17/2013, 07:52 AM

thank you pkirby and spyderturbo007. great advice. I have the GAC running, but i need to get a polyfilter.

There has been no missing fish, no new aquascaping, although the live rock in the sump got rustled up. in the sump, I had a baffle that came loose, so I used 100% silicone to reapply the baffle. During that time, I used a different "bypass" tank as a sump so the tank could continue to be in operation while the silicone dried (48 hours). I also recalibrated the refractometer to confirm that salinity was accurate.

I will keep you updated on progress. but it's still so depressing.

If you can think of anything else, please let me know. I truly appreciate it!

Ted_C · 09/17/2013, 08:16 AM

What was the water source for your water change? Could there have been changes in your water source?

Down here in Florida - our water company routinely (twice per year) switches from chloramines to chlorine to flush and disinfect the lines (and back to Chloramine). If we are not attentive to our RO/DI systems and get unfiltered ammonia (from the breakdown of chloramines) into our water changes or top-off water - this occurs.

It's most likely too late to check ammonia now - as it's all been consumed by your bacteria - but you may want to test your top off water if you can (and it was in the same batch).

mkoop · 09/17/2013, 09:51 AM

Yikes, I hope you get everything figured out in short order!

Spyderturbo007 · 09/17/2013, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted_C

What was the water source for your water change? Could there have been changes in your water source?

That's where I was going to suggest looking next. Excellent question Ted_C

Palting · 09/17/2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderturbo007

Can you post a full battery of test results, including Nitrite, pH and Ammonia? You said you fixed your sump....What did you do and did it involve any chemicals?

I'm in agreement with pkirby. I would get some GAC and a PolyFilter in there ASAP to pull any type of contamination out of the tank.

Have any fish gone missing lately? Did you add live rock or do some aquascaping recently?

I would also recommend calibrating your refractometer if possible and double check your thermometer if you have access to a spare.

This.

I had STN and a sudden die-off of coralline when I ran out of 2 part without realizing it, and the alk went below 7 from the usual steady 8dKH. It took several weeks to start recovery, but thankfully all the coral recovered. It was months before the coralline came back.

I would check the parameters, and slowly add alk to the system, and correct any other parameter that is off. Doing GAC and polyfilter is a double edged sword: it can pull out noxious substances, but it can also shock the system by correcting this too quickly. However, IMO, you have no choice but to do it.

njudson · 09/17/2013, 01:11 PM

Is the old sump back online now? What type of silicon did you use?

dtaranath · 09/17/2013, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted_C

What was the water source for your water change? Could there have been changes in your water source?

wow, great thought. I will definitely check that! thanks!

terrypercula · 09/17/2013, 09:54 PM

You gotta get the big three back in line. A big water change can be stressful to a system especially a well established one. Get your parameters back in order I think you'll be fine.

Spyderturbo007 · 09/18/2013, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtaranath

wow, great thought. I will definitely check that! thanks!

Oddly enough, I just read a post by PaulB where he lost almost all of his corals because the water company started adding Zinc Orthophosphate to the water to keep corrosion down in their pipes.

Ted_C · 09/18/2013, 11:20 AM

I also read that. However, PaulB has been in the hobby for 40+ years and he didn't establish a timeline when that may have happened. It could have happened 25 years ago. Reverse Osmosis has improved greatly in the last 10 years (and I would expect a RO membrane to remove zinc orhtophosphate).

fifthtoe · 09/18/2013, 11:30 AM

You mentioned 100% silicone. Even 100% silicone can have mold inhibitors in it. Are you sure what you used does not contain these? I've read it can kill coral and stuff. I've never had this happen to me personally though, just read stories about it.

dtaranath · 09/18/2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fifthtoe

You mentioned 100% silicone. Even 100% silicone can have mold inhibitors in it. Are you sure what you used does not contain these? I've read it can kill coral and stuff. I've never had this happen to me personally though, just read stories about it.

You know, it very well could be. I used GE Window/Door, because I have used that in the past without problem. I stayed away from Kitchen/bath because of the mold inhibitors, but it's very well possible there is a new formulation that I don't know about. Running Polyfilter now, GAC, and water changes, so hope to catch some things.

Cu455 · 09/18/2013, 07:16 PM

You should be a good sport and get an after picture up.

eacosta · 09/18/2013, 07:34 PM

I just recently used GE window/door for my sump. No problems in 3 weeks running now.

jamesbaur13 · 09/18/2013, 07:35 PM

I would test your fresh salt water mix.

I use good ole instant ocean. One thing I've noticed with it is alk is very high when mixed to 1.026. Mine tests out at 11dkh. A 40% WC would probably put my livestock in danger.

dtaranath · 09/18/2013, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cu455

You should be a good sport and get an after picture up.

lol. you're right, i should. it's too painful. but i guess i should take a pic so i never forget this.

Paul B · 09/21/2013, 09:35 AM

Quote:

I also read that. However, PaulB has been in the hobby for 40+ years and he didn't establish a timeline when that may have happened. It could have happened 25 years ago.

He told me that he doesn't remember when that happened but he thinks it was maybe 10 or 20 years ago, and it happened 3 times and at least one of those times he was using a RO/DI. Now he has a DI that removes zinc orthophosphate or at least it is supposed to.

Hobchoice1 · 09/21/2013, 04:01 PM

New product out by Algagen that is Phyto with Zooxanthellae. I used it with great results when I had a sponge release toxins into our Solana. If you cannot find it local, call them - they are an awesome company. (772) 978- 1395

Would also recommend adding something like Purigen, OrganitR or Chemipure to pull out anything that might have gotten into your system.

09/16/2013, 09:01 PM	#1
dtaranath Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 542	I think a big water change did me in my fellow reefers, So, here I am. Where nobody EVER wants to be. Over the past week, all my SPS has stopped growing and started to bleach. All my LPS is retracting. Inverts and fish seem to be fine. So much coral death is happening before my eyes, and I don't know how to stop it. It started about 1 week ago. I removed the sump from my system to fix a baffle, using a temporary sump in its place. In the process, I ended up doing about a 30-40% water change. I checked temp and SG, and both were equal to the tank. However, I didn't check alkalinity. My alk is now reading 6.7, and I think it was around 8 before this. Although, I will admit, it has been some time since I checked my alk, so I'm not 100% sure. All other parameters were within normal range (nitrates, phosphates, ammonia, nitrites, all zero). I even checked for stray voltage also, and that was zero. No exposure to chemicals. No sand beds that got stirred up. Is there any way to get things back to normal? Should I slowly start adding alk back to the system? I'm afraid to do anything right now, including any more water changes. But at this rate, everything is going to die. I'm posting this in this forum so hopefully all new reefers can learn from my mistake. I'm also hoping someone out there will be able to help me find some sort of solution, or direction to take. Here's a BEFORE pic, taken about a week ago: You don't want to see what it looks like now. This is so depressing. If any of you have any recommendations, please help me!!! __________________ ______________________ 220g mixed reef

09/17/2013, 07:52 AM	#5
dtaranath Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 542	thank you pkirby and spyderturbo007. great advice. I have the GAC running, but i need to get a polyfilter. There has been no missing fish, no new aquascaping, although the live rock in the sump got rustled up. in the sump, I had a baffle that came loose, so I used 100% silicone to reapply the baffle. During that time, I used a different "bypass" tank as a sump so the tank could continue to be in operation while the silicone dried (48 hours). I also recalibrated the refractometer to confirm that salinity was accurate. I will keep you updated on progress. but it's still so depressing. If you can think of anything else, please let me know. I truly appreciate it! __________________ ______________________ 220g mixed reef

09/17/2013, 01:11 PM	#10
njudson Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 610	Is the old sump back online now? What type of silicon did you use? __________________ Barebottom Nano Radion Pro Icecap 1k Gyre Icecap K1 Nano Skimmer Ocellaris pair / Potter's Angel / BTAs, Zoas and Montis Current Tank Info: IM Nuvo Fusion Lagoon 25

09/17/2013, 09:54 PM	#12
terrypercula Registered Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Buffalo,NY Posts: 4,354	You gotta get the big three back in line. A big water change can be stressful to a system especially a well established one. Get your parameters back in order I think you'll be fine. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: IM Nuvo Fusion 10, Kessil A160, Tunze Osmolator 3155, Ecotech Vortech MP10

09/18/2013, 07:35 PM	#19
jamesbaur13 Apsiring Alhcohlolic Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 772	I would test your fresh salt water mix. I use good ole instant ocean. One thing I've noticed with it is alk is very high when mixed to 1.026. Mine tests out at 11dkh. A 40% WC would probably put my livestock in danger. __________________ 120G AGA Dual Overflow, 40G B Sump, SRO-2000int, 2 Eheim 200w Heater, Eheim 1262 Return, BRS C & GFO React., BR-1000ss Biopellet React., Tunze 5017 ATO, 2 MP-40wes, DIY 76LED (36RB,24NW,6B,6CW,4Moon)

09/16/2013, 09:30 PM	#2
FsuNole Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Houston Posts: 196	I have no experience in the matter but your tank was looking great! Hope someone is able to help you get it back!

09/17/2013, 04:59 AM	#3
pkirby Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 408	30-40% is a large water change... But I've done back to back 50% water changes without issue... Just like you and made sure salinity and temp matched and then went with it... I personally never had any problems with this... It could be a result of the water change, but I'd be nervous if the temp sump was clean or if there was residue or something from a cleaner on it... Do you run carbon? If not I'd put some in there... I'd also pick up a polyfilter. I'm sorry bud, your tank did look great! Crashes can happen to the best of us though.... Hopefully you can get it under control quickly :-/

09/17/2013, 07:33 AM	#4
Spyderturbo007 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: PA Posts: 2,564	Can you post a full battery of test results, including Nitrite, pH and Ammonia? You said you fixed your sump....What did you do and did it involve any chemicals? I'm in agreement with pkirby. I would get some GAC and a PolyFilter in there ASAP to pull any type of contamination out of the tank. Have any fish gone missing lately? Did you add live rock or do some aquascaping recently? I would also recommend calibrating your refractometer if possible and double check your thermometer if you have access to a spare.

09/17/2013, 08:16 AM	#6
Ted_C Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Clearwater FL Posts: 1,923	What was the water source for your water change? Could there have been changes in your water source? Down here in Florida - our water company routinely (twice per year) switches from chloramines to chlorine to flush and disinfect the lines (and back to Chloramine). If we are not attentive to our RO/DI systems and get unfiltered ammonia (from the breakdown of chloramines) into our water changes or top-off water - this occurs. It's most likely too late to check ammonia now - as it's all been consumed by your bacteria - but you may want to test your top off water if you can (and it was in the same batch).

09/17/2013, 09:51 AM	#7
mkoop Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Madison WI Posts: 387	Yikes, I hope you get everything figured out in short order!

09/18/2013, 11:20 AM	#14
Ted_C Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Clearwater FL Posts: 1,923	I also read that. However, PaulB has been in the hobby for 40+ years and he didn't establish a timeline when that may have happened. It could have happened 25 years ago. Reverse Osmosis has improved greatly in the last 10 years (and I would expect a RO membrane to remove zinc orhtophosphate).

09/18/2013, 11:30 AM	#15
fifthtoe Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 274	You mentioned 100% silicone. Even 100% silicone can have mold inhibitors in it. Are you sure what you used does not contain these? I've read it can kill coral and stuff. I've never had this happen to me personally though, just read stories about it.

09/18/2013, 07:16 PM	#17
Cu455 Moved On Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 672	You should be a good sport and get an after picture up.

09/18/2013, 07:34 PM	#18
eacosta Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MD Posts: 135	I just recently used GE window/door for my sump. No problems in 3 weeks running now.

09/21/2013, 04:01 PM	#22
Hobchoice1 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 30	New product out by Algagen that is Phyto with Zooxanthellae. I used it with great results when I had a sponge release toxins into our Solana. If you cannot find it local, call them - they are an awesome company. (772) 978- 1395 Would also recommend adding something like Purigen, OrganitR or Chemipure to pull out anything that might have gotten into your system.