Getting back in to the hobby and need some guidance

AFK1911 · 09/20/2013, 08:36 PM

Hello all, I have been out of the hobby for about 8 years and I have been doing a lot of catching up on this wonderful site. I was previously registered, but I couldn't remember my user name and password so I just re-registered.

Anyway, I am in the process of gathering the equipment, and knowledege, for a new tank. My last tank was a 75 with a sump FOWLR. This time I want to keep various corals and it will only be a 36 gallon bow. I wish it could be bigger, but I don't have the room.

My main purpose for this post is to outline my plans to get it running, and would invite people to comment, or make suggestions as to weather it is a solid plan or not. Please let me know if there is anything you would do differently and why. Thanks in advance.

- I currently have about 40 lbs of dry rock. 10 lbs of Pukani from BRS, 10 lbs. of the bulk reef saver rock from BRS, and 20 pounds of dried rock I got from a buddy about 2 years ago that has been sitting in the basement. It is a mixture of dense base rock and Fiji. It all used to be live.
-1st I plan on scrubbing all of this rock with a stiff brush in some fresh RO/DI water to get all of the loose stuff off, and also pick stuff out of the rock if needed.
-Then I would like to arrange the rock in the display tank and fill it with newly mixed salt water. (made with RO/DI water and Instant Ocean salt, 1.026 specific gravity)
-Run my powerheads (that will remain in the tank long term;Koralia @850 GPH, and Koralia @ 600 GPH), and heater (set to 80 degrees, confirm with thermoneter),
-Test levels and watch for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, but more importantly, get phosphate down to .03 or lower.
-Once phosphate is consistantly at an acceptable level, drain tank and add live sand (40 lbs. CarribSea Ocean Direct), new salt water, and a small piece of newly aquired live rock for seeding corraline (spelling?) algea.
-At this time turn on my filter (Aquaclear 50 HOB filter) and my skimmer (AquaC Remora-S HOB). Obvioulsy keep the heater and power heads running.
-Keep lights off and watch for cycle to start. Possibly ghost feeding a small amount. Once nitrates are down to 0, add small CUC and start to cycle lights. (24" wide 2x65 watt power compacts, a little small for the tank because the tank is 30" wide, but I will upgrade them later.) Actinic for 10 hours, daylights for 8 hours.
-Slowly add fish while watching levels and letting bacteria grow.

I plan on doing weekly 10% water changes with RO/DI water. Daily top-offs will also be with RO/DI water.

In my Aquaclear 50 filter, I plan on running the sponge on the lowest level (washed with RO/DI daily), then carbon on the 2nd level, and finally Phosgurad on the 3rd level.

I also have a 9 watt UV Sterilizer that I need to get a pump for, but I am planning on running that when I start to add livestock.

I have no plans yet as to when I am going to start adding corals, I don;t know enough about keeping them yet, but with all of the great information on this site, I will work it in to my plan.

One part I am iffy about is curing the rock in the DT. The reason I am thinking about doing that is because I really want to take my time aquascaping the rock. If I cure it in a different container, I don't want any beneficial bacteria to die off while I am setting up the rock in the DT after it's done. It could take hours or days. Am I overthinking this aspect? I don't know. What do you think?

oscarinw · 09/20/2013, 10:02 PM

Everything ok up until arranging the rock. I would recommend laying the sandbed first, then the rock, then the freshly made saltwater and let it cycle. To make sure you are cycled you should keep an eye on the Ammonia and Nitrite to drop and stabilize at 0. With all dry rock and sand, that can take a while. Probably 3-6 weeks. Adding a source of ammonia will expedite that.
Forget about phosphates at this stage.
Keeping the filter running during this time might help the cycle as well. Just leave the actual filter cartridge out of the picture.
Keep salinity and temperature stable.
Once Ammonia and Nitrite fall to 0, perform a first water change of about 40% and introduce a small clean up crew. A subsequent 10% weekly WC is appropriate. Maybe a hermit and a snail only at this time.
Don't illuminate the tank if not necessary. And if you do it, only give it 3-4 hours of light at this stage.
RO/DI is a great investment so A+ on that.
Once the tank has been running after cycle for about a month, start increasing the light slowly keeping an eye open for algae blooms. Slow addition of livestock, correct feeding patterns and consistent water changes will be your best friends here. Hold on to the phosguard for now. Use it only if needed.
Regarding curing your rock on the DT, it is not recommendable. If it has been dry for years, then wouldn't have to be a big issue. If it's been a couple of days out of the water, then you should cure it in a separate container to avoid unnecessary pollution in your DT. That will be a potentially negative source of phosphates, so don't do it. Simply put it in a plastic container with saltwater a heater and a powerhead and wait for a cycle.
You can always cure it first and then aquascape with it at your pleasure. Just don't leave it out of the water for more than a few hours. Use Marco rocks' E-marco 400 mortar and you can let it set underwater.
I don't think you are overthinking the project. I think it's better to have a plan before taking the plunge.
One thing I am pretty safe on recommending is doing the rock first and then the sand... saver yourself time and grief and cycle it all at once.
For more specific recommendations let us know more about the current condition of the rock you will be using. How long it's been dry or if its wet, etc.
One last thought is maybe you are overshooting the amount of rock you are using. In general a lot of rock doesn't hurt but it does take up swimming space from your pets.

Good luck with things and keep us updated with your project.

dkeller_nc · 09/21/2013, 07:14 AM

From the standpoint of "curing" the dry rock in the display tank, yes, you can do it. An aquarium is a just a glass container vs. a plastic one, after all. Most of us would say it's a heck of a lot more convenient to cure rock in a plastic garbage can rather than an aquarium, but your plan makes sense if you simply can't accommodate the garbage can b/c of floor space.

I would change a couple of things about your plan. First, don't use saltwater to soak/cure your dry rock. Use RODI. Dead material on the rock will come off/be consumed by bacteria just as effectively in pure freshwater as saltwater, and there's no reason to spend the money on salt.

Wait at least 4 weeks with the rock in freshwater, heated and circulating, no light, and with occasional 50% changes. 8 weeks would be better. There is no need to add lanthanum chloride or anything else to this water so long as you change it every 4 or 5 days. Bacteria will do the job for you.

When you're ready to go, take your rock out, clean out the display tank, add your RODI and salt, let it mix for at least 3-4 hours, and add your rock in the arrangement you wish. Then, a couple of days later, add your live sand. You definitely want to add your rock in its final position before you add your sand. Otherwise, your rock may be supported on a bed of sand, and burrowing invert or fish can undermine it and cause a rockslide in your tank.

An alternative procedure if you're going to do some serious rockscaping with acrylic rods/epoxy is to build your structure in the tank before you add the water, and mix your salt separately in a mixing container, then add it to the tank.

Don't use phosguard in your filter or in your tank. Phodguard is an aluminum based material, and while it will bind phosphate, there is also the possibility of adding aluminum to your tank water that you don't want in there. For the same reason, don't use hydraulic cement or thorite to build your rock display. These materials are alumina-silicate based, and have the same potential long-term problems as phosguard for a reef tank. How much of a problem they might be depends a great deal on the pH swings that the tank goes through during curing/cycling, so it is simply better not to take the chance. Epoxy would be fine for rock structures if you need a glue/cement.

Then you have a decision to make. Adding true live rock to the tank will greatly assist in seeding the dead rock with bacteria, coralline algae, and amphipods, copepods, worms and other small creatures that make up the base of the biotope in a reef. However, you will lose any advantage for avoiding pests that you may have gained from using dead rock.

09/20/2013, 08:36 PM	#1
AFK1911 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 50	Getting back in to the hobby and need some guidance Hello all, I have been out of the hobby for about 8 years and I have been doing a lot of catching up on this wonderful site. I was previously registered, but I couldn't remember my user name and password so I just re-registered. Anyway, I am in the process of gathering the equipment, and knowledege, for a new tank. My last tank was a 75 with a sump FOWLR. This time I want to keep various corals and it will only be a 36 gallon bow. I wish it could be bigger, but I don't have the room. My main purpose for this post is to outline my plans to get it running, and would invite people to comment, or make suggestions as to weather it is a solid plan or not. Please let me know if there is anything you would do differently and why. Thanks in advance. - I currently have about 40 lbs of dry rock. 10 lbs of Pukani from BRS, 10 lbs. of the bulk reef saver rock from BRS, and 20 pounds of dried rock I got from a buddy about 2 years ago that has been sitting in the basement. It is a mixture of dense base rock and Fiji. It all used to be live. -1st I plan on scrubbing all of this rock with a stiff brush in some fresh RO/DI water to get all of the loose stuff off, and also pick stuff out of the rock if needed. -Then I would like to arrange the rock in the display tank and fill it with newly mixed salt water. (made with RO/DI water and Instant Ocean salt, 1.026 specific gravity) -Run my powerheads (that will remain in the tank long term;Koralia @850 GPH, and Koralia @ 600 GPH), and heater (set to 80 degrees, confirm with thermoneter), -Test levels and watch for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, but more importantly, get phosphate down to .03 or lower. -Once phosphate is consistantly at an acceptable level, drain tank and add live sand (40 lbs. CarribSea Ocean Direct), new salt water, and a small piece of newly aquired live rock for seeding corraline (spelling?) algea. -At this time turn on my filter (Aquaclear 50 HOB filter) and my skimmer (AquaC Remora-S HOB). Obvioulsy keep the heater and power heads running. -Keep lights off and watch for cycle to start. Possibly ghost feeding a small amount. Once nitrates are down to 0, add small CUC and start to cycle lights. (24" wide 2x65 watt power compacts, a little small for the tank because the tank is 30" wide, but I will upgrade them later.) Actinic for 10 hours, daylights for 8 hours. -Slowly add fish while watching levels and letting bacteria grow. I plan on doing weekly 10% water changes with RO/DI water. Daily top-offs will also be with RO/DI water. In my Aquaclear 50 filter, I plan on running the sponge on the lowest level (washed with RO/DI daily), then carbon on the 2nd level, and finally Phosgurad on the 3rd level. I also have a 9 watt UV Sterilizer that I need to get a pump for, but I am planning on running that when I start to add livestock. I have no plans yet as to when I am going to start adding corals, I don;t know enough about keeping them yet, but with all of the great information on this site, I will work it in to my plan. One part I am iffy about is curing the rock in the DT. The reason I am thinking about doing that is because I really want to take my time aquascaping the rock. If I cure it in a different container, I don't want any beneficial bacteria to die off while I am setting up the rock in the DT after it's done. It could take hours or days. Am I overthinking this aspect? I don't know. What do you think?

09/20/2013, 10:02 PM	#2
oscarinw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Western Massachusetts Posts: 1,091	Everything ok up until arranging the rock. I would recommend laying the sandbed first, then the rock, then the freshly made saltwater and let it cycle. To make sure you are cycled you should keep an eye on the Ammonia and Nitrite to drop and stabilize at 0. With all dry rock and sand, that can take a while. Probably 3-6 weeks. Adding a source of ammonia will expedite that. Forget about phosphates at this stage. Keeping the filter running during this time might help the cycle as well. Just leave the actual filter cartridge out of the picture. Keep salinity and temperature stable. Once Ammonia and Nitrite fall to 0, perform a first water change of about 40% and introduce a small clean up crew. A subsequent 10% weekly WC is appropriate. Maybe a hermit and a snail only at this time. Don't illuminate the tank if not necessary. And if you do it, only give it 3-4 hours of light at this stage. RO/DI is a great investment so A+ on that. Once the tank has been running after cycle for about a month, start increasing the light slowly keeping an eye open for algae blooms. Slow addition of livestock, correct feeding patterns and consistent water changes will be your best friends here. Hold on to the phosguard for now. Use it only if needed. Regarding curing your rock on the DT, it is not recommendable. If it has been dry for years, then wouldn't have to be a big issue. If it's been a couple of days out of the water, then you should cure it in a separate container to avoid unnecessary pollution in your DT. That will be a potentially negative source of phosphates, so don't do it. Simply put it in a plastic container with saltwater a heater and a powerhead and wait for a cycle. You can always cure it first and then aquascape with it at your pleasure. Just don't leave it out of the water for more than a few hours. Use Marco rocks' E-marco 400 mortar and you can let it set underwater. I don't think you are overthinking the project. I think it's better to have a plan before taking the plunge. One thing I am pretty safe on recommending is doing the rock first and then the sand... saver yourself time and grief and cycle it all at once. For more specific recommendations let us know more about the current condition of the rock you will be using. How long it's been dry or if its wet, etc. One last thought is maybe you are overshooting the amount of rock you are using. In general a lot of rock doesn't hurt but it does take up swimming space from your pets. Good luck with things and keep us updated with your project.

09/21/2013, 07:14 AM	#3
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	From the standpoint of "curing" the dry rock in the display tank, yes, you can do it. An aquarium is a just a glass container vs. a plastic one, after all. Most of us would say it's a heck of a lot more convenient to cure rock in a plastic garbage can rather than an aquarium, but your plan makes sense if you simply can't accommodate the garbage can b/c of floor space. I would change a couple of things about your plan. First, don't use saltwater to soak/cure your dry rock. Use RODI. Dead material on the rock will come off/be consumed by bacteria just as effectively in pure freshwater as saltwater, and there's no reason to spend the money on salt. Wait at least 4 weeks with the rock in freshwater, heated and circulating, no light, and with occasional 50% changes. 8 weeks would be better. There is no need to add lanthanum chloride or anything else to this water so long as you change it every 4 or 5 days. Bacteria will do the job for you. When you're ready to go, take your rock out, clean out the display tank, add your RODI and salt, let it mix for at least 3-4 hours, and add your rock in the arrangement you wish. Then, a couple of days later, add your live sand. You definitely want to add your rock in its final position before you add your sand. Otherwise, your rock may be supported on a bed of sand, and burrowing invert or fish can undermine it and cause a rockslide in your tank. An alternative procedure if you're going to do some serious rockscaping with acrylic rods/epoxy is to build your structure in the tank before you add the water, and mix your salt separately in a mixing container, then add it to the tank. Don't use phosguard in your filter or in your tank. Phodguard is an aluminum based material, and while it will bind phosphate, there is also the possibility of adding aluminum to your tank water that you don't want in there. For the same reason, don't use hydraulic cement or thorite to build your rock display. These materials are alumina-silicate based, and have the same potential long-term problems as phosguard for a reef tank. How much of a problem they might be depends a great deal on the pH swings that the tank goes through during curing/cycling, so it is simply better not to take the chance. Epoxy would be fine for rock structures if you need a glue/cement. Then you have a decision to make. Adding true live rock to the tank will greatly assist in seeding the dead rock with bacteria, coralline algae, and amphipods, copepods, worms and other small creatures that make up the base of the biotope in a reef. However, you will lose any advantage for avoiding pests that you may have gained from using dead rock.