New to the hobby!!

Jesoccer94 · 09/30/2013, 09:59 PM

Hello everyone my name is james and I am just now entering the hobby I'm only into it 5 days and I'm loving it. I have a 20 gallon long tank with 30 lbs of live sand and 22 lbs of live rock, running a 30 gallon marine land filter with a hydro wave maker. I couldn't wait to put fish in so I did the fourth day. I have two clowns who are awesome and two blue yellowtail damsels who are not doing so well it seems like. Oh n also I'm running a marine land 24-36in light with timer built in that has 1600 lumens or something.

hollister · 09/30/2013, 10:17 PM

It takes a few weeks to cycle a new setup. During this time you want no stock. Chances are they will die.

oscarinw · 09/30/2013, 10:20 PM

You are adding fish too soon, too quickly... Try to wait for the cycle of your tank to complete and test for ammonia and nitrites. If any are present, you should take some drastic measures. Read the stickies at the top of the 'New To The Hobby' section.
Good luck

Calappidae · 09/30/2013, 10:21 PM

You were at a good start with the rock, sand, and equiptment... then you added your fish...

Tanks need to cycle for around 2 weeks.. then you add your hardy damsels, hermit crabs, snails,

1 week later. Less hardier fish like blennies, gobies, clowns

another week later... less hardy invertebrates like fire shrimp, cleaner shrimp, crabs,

ANOTHER week later.. and you know what your doing... you can try some corals and such...

if the tank is running for 6 whole months without problems, then anemones could be attempted.

This is a slow process hobby... you better check your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph every single day and add some beneficial bacteria.

Glad your enjoying it, this is one of those.. "Work slow, earn reward meanwhile and after" type hobbies

P.S. keep an eye out for that damsel, they are called "Dam"sels for a good reason as they can turn into nasty little things later on and are a pain to catch.

Jesoccer94 · 10/01/2013, 02:56 AM

Well I hope I didn't majorly mess up, the guy at the fish store said adding fish to the tank would speed the cycling process up and recommended it for my set up fml. What should I do from here to ensure my tanks health and fishes health if possible. Thanks for all the help btw

pkirby · 10/01/2013, 05:39 AM

monitor your levels closely. If Ammonia or Nitrite start climbing be prepared to do a water change. Nitrate isn't as much of a concern IMO since you're only dealing with fish at this point. Assuming the live rock was cured you may make it through with a very minor cycle. It may be a good idea though to add beneficial bacteria like Instant Ocean Bio-Spira. If you choose to do this check the bottle and try to find the newest you can...
Your system just went from 0 fish to 4... which is pretty drastic! But as long as you're able to keep Ammonia and Nitrite down you should be OK, it's just going to be a bit of a rough ride for your fish unfortunately.

Fizz71 · 10/01/2013, 06:37 AM

If your live rock was fully cured and teaming with bacteria you might be able to pull it off with 2 fish--4 fish is probably really pushing it. Especially since you have no clean up crew in there so anything you feed that they don't eat as well as any detritus the fish produce will take longer to break down.

Like others have said...monitor ammonia and nitrite DAILY. Please use a liquid or powder based test kits...no test strips or stick on jobs. ANY sign of either and we'll need to deal with it either with water changes or chemicals (which I don't really like to use). Watch nitrate too...seeing that is actually a GOOD sign as long as it doesn't get too high.

As for your LFS saying it helps with the cycle...well...he's right...but he's also about 10 years behind... We try to avoid using fish to cycle because it's bad for the fish and not necessary. It's great for the LFS though because if they die you'll just buy more. It's a win-win for them. Most people use dead shrimp or pure ammonia to get a cycle going.

I am from the philosophy of cycling not being necessary if you have good quality fully cured live rock....BUT...I wouldn't condone 4 fish into a 20g system at once. Plus you need a CUC in there BEFORE (or with) your first fish.

Jesoccer94 · 10/01/2013, 07:08 AM

So 100 percent get test kit and test daily and if need be water changes and im also going to get that bacteria stuff pkirby was talking about. would you all recommend me flushing the damsels so i would only have two fish cause i mean i payed alot more for the clowns and definitely would rather them live it out you know.
PS im so glad i joined this forum i have learned so much more in the past 24 hours then i have in all my research on this hobby.

FTDelta · 10/01/2013, 07:28 AM

First and formost... stop and slow down! Read and research everything in setting up a successful reef tank. Already you're making mistakes.

Do you ahve a QT? Do you have a good quality test kit? Did you cure your live rock? Did you use tap water? If so, not a good idea. Get a RO/DI unit for water source.

Everything you're doing is typical of a beginner rushing into this hobby without even a single piece of inkling of what's involved.

Cycling your tank using fish is considered inhumane.

24 hours is not enough for you to really understand the whats, whys, and the hows of this hobby. This is far more complicated than running a fresh water tank. SLOW DOWN!!

FTDelta · 10/01/2013, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesoccer94

Well I hope I didn't majorly mess up, the guy at the fish store said adding fish to the tank would speed the cycling process up and recommended it for my set up fml. What should I do from here to ensure my tanks health and fishes health if possible. Thanks for all the help btw

Time for you to find another fish store. All he cares about is making a profit. He don't give a crap if you succeed or not.

Calappidae · 10/01/2013, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesoccer94

So 100 percent get test kit and test daily and if need be water changes and im also going to get that bacteria stuff pkirby was talking about. would you all recommend me flushing the damsels so i would only have two fish cause i mean i payed alot more for the clowns and definitely would rather them live it out you know.
PS im so glad i joined this forum i have learned so much more in the past 24 hours then i have in all my research on this hobby.

Never flush or kill aquatic life.. try to sell it, or return it.

pkirby · 10/01/2013, 08:17 AM

PLEASE do not simply flush the damsels... if you cannot return them to the fish store see if someone on your local forum (if you haven't found one, find one) would be willing to either take them off your hands or possibly even if they have a QT let you keep them in their QT for a couple weeks. to give your tank a chance at building up the bacteria it needs to handle the biological load.

Fizz71 · 10/01/2013, 09:00 AM

I don't think you'll find too many people in here that would flush a live healthy fish. I'd take them back to the LFS and if you REALLY want them they might hold them for you.

Keep in mind damsels are VERY territorial and clowns are also damsels (although the Occ or Percs you have are not as aggressive). 2 YT damsels in a 20g will be very aggressive towards anything else you add later. They may be cute little things now, but they will be devils later on.

Jesoccer94 · 10/01/2013, 10:50 AM

the flushing thing was uncalled for and i apologize for even thinking about tht. didnt mean it as something i was going to do or anything im just freaking out because i have alot of money invested as do you all im sure and i would like to succeed and i dont really no what to do from here.

Calappidae · 10/01/2013, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesoccer94

the flushing thing was uncalled for and i apologize for even thinking about tht. didnt mean it as something i was going to do or anything im just freaking out because i have alot of money invested as do you all im sure and i would like to succeed and i dont really no what to do from here.

Actually, its illegal to flush or release even saltwater livetock into a river as chances are, they lay eggs and the new borns adapt to the new water and take over.

Jesoccer94 · 10/01/2013, 11:00 AM

yeah i could see that being illegal

Jesoccer94 · 10/01/2013, 11:12 AM

the only reason i cycled with fish is because the local pet store said to i wasnt trying to be inhumane or anything im the exact opposite.
so from the knowledge of the forum i have gathered this
Step one slow down haven't touched tank in 2 days except to test the water
step two research which i have been doing
step three what should i do about the poor fish should i give the damsels back to the pet store
step four would the bacteria you buy at a pet store be a good fit for my tank
step five after i figure out what to do from here i will slow the blank down!
PS that pet store is no longer the pet store i will be shopping at
thanks and sry for all the noob mistakes

my live rock was fully cured

Calappidae · 10/01/2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesoccer94

the only reason i cycled with fish is because the local pet store said to i wasnt trying to be inhumane or anything im the exact opposite.
so from the knowledge of the forum i have gathered this
Step one slow down haven't touched tank in 2 days except to test the water
step two research which i have been doing
step three what should i do about the poor fish should i give the damsels back to the pet store
step four would the bacteria you buy at a pet store be a good fit for my tank
step five after i figure out what to do from here i will slow the blank down!
PS that pet store is no longer the pet store i will be shopping at
thanks and sry for all the noob mistakes

For a beginner your doing extremely good. just a small mistake that a lot of people make. I would return the damsel because of it's aggression.

When adding bacteria your (somewhat) speeding the cycle... when we cycle our tanks we are trying to stabilize ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

The bacteria turns ammonia into nitrite, and nitrite into nitrate, and then gets rid of nitrate. This is called the nitrogen cycle. The live rock has stuff already living in it.. and things that died during shipping.. when you add you rock and sand there is a little bit of ammonia for the bacteria to feed on from the living/dead life already in it. After about 2 weeks the bacteria should catch up with the current ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.. and everytime we add a new fish the bacteria needs to catch up with that too. Reason why we add few fish at a time at a slow rate so the bacteria keeps up with it and there isn't huge ammonia spikes killing fish slowly.

Jesoccer94 · 10/01/2013, 12:02 PM

Thanks i am going to buy the bacteria and some more test strips when i get off. and i bought the live rock from a different pet store than the bad one i keep refering to and the live sand so it should have all the good stuff it needs. thats where i will be taking my business to now forsure.
ps i did alot of research and thats where i got to before the fish then i went to pet palace and they said that it would be faster cycling if i got fish which now i realize was them selling a newb some fish for a tank that wasnt ready even though in the back of my head i new i read to wait at least 2 weeks before adding anything. i just got played!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calappidae

For a beginner your doing extremely good. just a small mistake that a lot of people make. I would return the damsel because of it's aggression.

When adding bacteria your (somewhat) speeding the cycle... when we cycle our tanks we are trying to stabilize ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

The bacteria turns ammonia into nitrite, and nitrite into nitrate, and then gets rid of nitrate. This is called the nitrogen cycle. The live rock has stuff already living in it.. and things that died during shipping.. when you add you rock and sand there is a little bit of ammonia for the bacteria to feed on from the living/dead life already in it. After about 2 weeks the bacteria should catch up with the current ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.. and everytime we add a new fish the bacteria needs to catch up with that too. Reason why we add few fish at a time at a slow rate so the bacteria keeps up with it and there isn't huge ammonia spikes killing fish slowly.

BonnieMiller · 10/01/2013, 12:06 PM

Hi
yes you definitely have to have patience for a reef aquarium....our 70 gal reef has been up for almost 2 months now...we did not add fish till 2 or 3 days ago...we have 9 chromis fish in it...and a few turbo snails and blue legged crabs....we have a order of snails and crabs coming in the morning....

Calappidae · 10/01/2013, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieMiller

Hi
yes you definitely have to have patience for a reef aquarium....our 70 gal reef has been up for almost 2 months now...we did not add fish till 2 or 3 days ago...we have 9 chromis fish in it...and a few turbo snails and blue legged crabs....we have a order of snails and crabs coming in the morning....

IMHO too many chromis at one time especially in a 70 gal

Fizz71 · 10/01/2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesoccer94

Thanks i am going to buy the bacteria and some more test strips when i get off. and i bought the live rock from a different pet store than the bad one i keep refering to and the live sand so it should have all the good stuff it needs. thats where i will be taking my business to now forsure.
ps i did alot of research and thats where i got to before the fish then i went to pet palace and they said that it would be faster cycling if i got fish which now i realize was them selling a newb some fish for a tank that wasnt ready even though in the back of my head i new i read to wait at least 2 weeks before adding anything. i just got played!!!

...as I said before I HIGHLY recommend a liquid or powder based test kit. I don't trust "test strips" and I think others would agree (please do). If you want to keep it cheap go with API test kits, but Salifert would be better. I've used both (and others).

FTDelta · 10/01/2013, 01:34 PM

Trade off your damsel for something you can use. Definitely find another fish store to do business with.

pkirby · 10/01/2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizz71

...as I said before I HIGHLY recommend a liquid or powder based test kit. I don't trust "test strips" and I think others would agree (please do). If you want to keep it cheap go with API test kits, but Salifert would be better. I've used both (and others).

I DO agree to use liquid tests or powder based... the test strips are fine IMO for freshwater setups... but in saltwater we're trying to monitor things closer and more accurately...

Terefel · 10/01/2013, 02:31 PM

With my first tank I used the test strips - though they're convenient, I thought they were kind of a pain to read and perhaps not all that accurate. Salifert test kits have a solid reputation.

09/30/2013, 10:21 PM	#4
Calappidae Harlequin Shrimp Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Somewhere Posts: 3,814	You were at a good start with the rock, sand, and equiptment... then you added your fish... Tanks need to cycle for around 2 weeks.. then you add your hardy damsels, hermit crabs, snails, 1 week later. Less hardier fish like blennies, gobies, clowns another week later... less hardy invertebrates like fire shrimp, cleaner shrimp, crabs, ANOTHER week later.. and you know what your doing... you can try some corals and such... if the tank is running for 6 whole months without problems, then anemones could be attempted. This is a slow process hobby... you better check your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph every single day and add some beneficial bacteria. Glad your enjoying it, this is one of those.. "Work slow, earn reward meanwhile and after" type hobbies P.S. keep an eye out for that damsel, they are called "Dam"sels for a good reason as they can turn into nasty little things later on and are a pain to catch. __________________ Joe

10/01/2013, 06:37 AM	#7
Fizz71 FragSwapper Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Lawn, PA Posts: 5,800	If your live rock was fully cured and teaming with bacteria you might be able to pull it off with 2 fish--4 fish is probably really pushing it. Especially since you have no clean up crew in there so anything you feed that they don't eat as well as any detritus the fish produce will take longer to break down. Like others have said...monitor ammonia and nitrite DAILY. Please use a liquid or powder based test kits...no test strips or stick on jobs. ANY sign of either and we'll need to deal with it either with water changes or chemicals (which I don't really like to use). Watch nitrate too...seeing that is actually a GOOD sign as long as it doesn't get too high. As for your LFS saying it helps with the cycle...well...he's right...but he's also about 10 years behind... We try to avoid using fish to cycle because it's bad for the fish and not necessary. It's great for the LFS though because if they die you'll just buy more. It's a win-win for them. Most people use dead shrimp or pure ammonia to get a cycle going. I am from the philosophy of cycling not being necessary if you have good quality fully cured live rock....BUT...I wouldn't condone 4 fish into a 20g system at once. Plus you need a CUC in there BEFORE (or with) your first fish. __________________ --Fizz Current Tank Info: Current system is 8x2x2 240g peninsula setup with a single "chamber" 100g sump in the basement with an RDSB. All corals are 100% home grown from frags of fellow reefers (low natural reef impact).

10/01/2013, 09:00 AM	#13
Fizz71 FragSwapper Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Lawn, PA Posts: 5,800	I don't think you'll find too many people in here that would flush a live healthy fish. I'd take them back to the LFS and if you REALLY want them they might hold them for you. Keep in mind damsels are VERY territorial and clowns are also damsels (although the Occ or Percs you have are not as aggressive). 2 YT damsels in a 20g will be very aggressive towards anything else you add later. They may be cute little things now, but they will be devils later on. __________________ --Fizz Current Tank Info: Current system is 8x2x2 240g peninsula setup with a single "chamber" 100g sump in the basement with an RDSB. All corals are 100% home grown from frags of fellow reefers (low natural reef impact).

10/01/2013, 11:12 AM	#17
Jesoccer94 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Louisville, ky Posts: 84	the only reason i cycled with fish is because the local pet store said to i wasnt trying to be inhumane or anything im the exact opposite. so from the knowledge of the forum i have gathered this Step one slow down haven't touched tank in 2 days except to test the water step two research which i have been doing step three what should i do about the poor fish should i give the damsels back to the pet store step four would the bacteria you buy at a pet store be a good fit for my tank step five after i figure out what to do from here i will slow the blank down! PS that pet store is no longer the pet store i will be shopping at thanks and sry for all the noob mistakes my live rock was fully cured Last edited by Jesoccer94; 10/01/2013 at 11:23 AM.

09/30/2013, 10:17 PM	#2
hollister Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,037	It takes a few weeks to cycle a new setup. During this time you want no stock. Chances are they will die.

09/30/2013, 10:20 PM	#3
oscarinw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Western Massachusetts Posts: 1,091	You are adding fish too soon, too quickly... Try to wait for the cycle of your tank to complete and test for ammonia and nitrites. If any are present, you should take some drastic measures. Read the stickies at the top of the 'New To The Hobby' section. Good luck

10/01/2013, 02:56 AM	#5
Jesoccer94 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Louisville, ky Posts: 84	Well I hope I didn't majorly mess up, the guy at the fish store said adding fish to the tank would speed the cycling process up and recommended it for my set up fml. What should I do from here to ensure my tanks health and fishes health if possible. Thanks for all the help btw

10/01/2013, 05:39 AM	#6
pkirby Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 408	monitor your levels closely. If Ammonia or Nitrite start climbing be prepared to do a water change. Nitrate isn't as much of a concern IMO since you're only dealing with fish at this point. Assuming the live rock was cured you may make it through with a very minor cycle. It may be a good idea though to add beneficial bacteria like Instant Ocean Bio-Spira. If you choose to do this check the bottle and try to find the newest you can... Your system just went from 0 fish to 4... which is pretty drastic! But as long as you're able to keep Ammonia and Nitrite down you should be OK, it's just going to be a bit of a rough ride for your fish unfortunately.

10/01/2013, 07:08 AM	#8
Jesoccer94 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Louisville, ky Posts: 84	So 100 percent get test kit and test daily and if need be water changes and im also going to get that bacteria stuff pkirby was talking about. would you all recommend me flushing the damsels so i would only have two fish cause i mean i payed alot more for the clowns and definitely would rather them live it out you know. PS im so glad i joined this forum i have learned so much more in the past 24 hours then i have in all my research on this hobby.

10/01/2013, 07:28 AM	#9
FTDelta Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central NY Posts: 1,124	First and formost... stop and slow down! Read and research everything in setting up a successful reef tank. Already you're making mistakes. Do you ahve a QT? Do you have a good quality test kit? Did you cure your live rock? Did you use tap water? If so, not a good idea. Get a RO/DI unit for water source. Everything you're doing is typical of a beginner rushing into this hobby without even a single piece of inkling of what's involved. Cycling your tank using fish is considered inhumane. 24 hours is not enough for you to really understand the whats, whys, and the hows of this hobby. This is far more complicated than running a fresh water tank. SLOW DOWN!!

10/01/2013, 08:17 AM	#12
pkirby Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 408	PLEASE do not simply flush the damsels... if you cannot return them to the fish store see if someone on your local forum (if you haven't found one, find one) would be willing to either take them off your hands or possibly even if they have a QT let you keep them in their QT for a couple weeks. to give your tank a chance at building up the bacteria it needs to handle the biological load.

10/01/2013, 10:50 AM	#14
Jesoccer94 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Louisville, ky Posts: 84	the flushing thing was uncalled for and i apologize for even thinking about tht. didnt mean it as something i was going to do or anything im just freaking out because i have alot of money invested as do you all im sure and i would like to succeed and i dont really no what to do from here.

10/01/2013, 11:00 AM	#16
Jesoccer94 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Louisville, ky Posts: 84	yeah i could see that being illegal

10/01/2013, 12:06 PM	#20
BonnieMiller Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Louisville, Kentucky USA Posts: 25	Hi yes you definitely have to have patience for a reef aquarium....our 70 gal reef has been up for almost 2 months now...we did not add fish till 2 or 3 days ago...we have 9 chromis fish in it...and a few turbo snails and blue legged crabs....we have a order of snails and crabs coming in the morning....

10/01/2013, 01:34 PM	#23
FTDelta Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central NY Posts: 1,124	Trade off your damsel for something you can use. Definitely find another fish store to do business with.

10/01/2013, 02:31 PM	#25
Terefel Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Newport Beach, CA Posts: 303	With my first tank I used the test strips - though they're convenient, I thought they were kind of a pain to read and perhaps not all that accurate. Salifert test kits have a solid reputation.