is this brittle star reef and fish safe?

RicoReef · 10/24/2013, 12:49 PM

ok so i found out that two months after i put in my last piece of LR that it had 2 hitchhikers, a mantis shrimp and a brittle star. I have gotten mixed reviews about brittle and serpent stars with the only constant being that green serpents are the devil.

i found this in my tank yesterday and not sure if i should be happy or ready to scour my rock work for him and pull him out asap.

I have also gotten mixed reviews on the mantis. i am more comfortable giving him away than keeping him in my tank. is there a way to trap them? not too happy about taking out my live rock and dipping it in RO water to get him out. his lair is in with one of my feather dusters.

thanks,

Calappidae · 10/24/2013, 03:36 PM

Any hitchhiking micro brittles are harmless.

(if) they get a foot in diameter there is a very small risk of gobies or slow, bottom dwelling fish being eaten.

oscarinw · 10/24/2013, 10:20 PM

Look for the inverted top bottle trap method for the mantis removal. Seems to be popular.

Good luck with things

Calappidae · 10/24/2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscarinw

Look for the inverted top bottle trap method for the mantis removal. Seems to be popular.

Good luck with things

[IMG]http://i44.*******.com/2ymt9mu.jpg[/IMG]

Basicly like this.

robotman · 10/25/2013, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicoReef

ok so i found out that two months after i put in my last piece of LR that it had 2 hitchhikers, a mantis shrimp and a brittle star. I have gotten mixed reviews about brittle and serpent stars with the only constant being that green serpents are the devil.

i found this in my tank yesterday and not sure if i should be happy or ready to scour my rock work for him and pull him out asap.

I have also gotten mixed reviews on the mantis. i am more comfortable giving him away than keeping him in my tank. is there a way to trap them? not too happy about taking out my live rock and dipping it in RO water to get him out. his lair is in with one of my feather dusters.

thanks,

what ive read is the usualy hitchehiker mantis is harmless, trap him and leave him in the sump if you have one.

johnike · 10/25/2013, 04:25 AM

Rico, I have a Mantis trap laying around if you need it.

RicoReef · 10/25/2013, 08:09 AM

thanks everyone!!! i tried the inverted bottle trap last night with mysis shrimp as bait and i only caught my sandsifting snails and one of my chromis. i left in there today while im at work, patience seems to be a theme with this hobby. lol.

RicoReef · 10/25/2013, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnike

Rico, I have a Mantis trap laying around if you need it.

thanks John!!!! i may very well take you up on that offer if the inverted bottle trap doesn't work out. I am going to keep trying throughout the weekend, if i dont catch him i will definitely message you.

thanks again.

Calappidae · 10/25/2013, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robotman

what ive read is the usualy hitchehiker mantis is harmless, trap him and leave him in the sump if you have one.

We talk about this in the stomatopod forums often, Its mainly the indivigual's personallity. Hitchhiking mantis shrimp usually are all smasher.. smashers use their claws to crack the shells of hard prey such as bivalves, hermits, crabs, lobsters, etc and to mine out rockwork.

Spearers which are never really seen as hitchhikers (they can't mine out rocks and hide deep in them... their claws are not ment for it so they live in the substrate or build their home out of rubble... unless one finds a pre-made home to live in) Spearers attack softer body prey such as fish.

A smasher can sometimes live with fish for awhile since it isn't their "main" diet, but there is always that risk of them attacking a fish as they are still predators. If well fed, and if that mantis has a nice personallity, they can sometimes be welcomed into any home aquarium.

RicoReef · 10/25/2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calappidae

We talk about this in the stomatopod forums often, Its mainly the indivigual's personallity. Hitchhiking mantis shrimp usually are all smasher.. smashers use their claws to crack the shells of hard prey such as bivalves, hermits, crabs, lobsters, etc and to mine out rockwork.

Spearers which are never really seen as hitchhikers (they can't mine out rocks and hide deep in them... their claws are not ment for it so they live in the substrate or build their home out of rubble... unless one finds a pre-made home to live in) Spearers attack softer body prey such as fish.

A smasher can sometimes live with fish for awhile since it isn't their "main" diet, but there is always that risk of them attacking a fish as they are still predators. If well fed, and if that mantis has a nice personallity, they can sometimes be welcomed into any home aquarium.

that's more or less what i have read in my research, however, i have had 2 cleaner shrimp disappear and a good amount of my snails disappearing leaving only their shell. this is over a period of about 2 months. i have a feeling this guy is a little aggressive. he is still very small though, maybe only an inch. i want to get him out before he becomes a bigger problem. I am even thinking of keeping him with a damsel or two in a 5 gallon i may just set up at work until he gets bigger.

robotman · 10/25/2013, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicoReef

that's more or less what i have read in my research, however, i have had 2 cleaner shrimp disappear and a good amount of my snails disappearing leaving only their shell. this is over a period of about 2 months. i have a feeling this guy is a little aggressive. he is still very small though, maybe only an inch. i want to get him out before he becomes a bigger problem. I am even thinking of keeping him with a damsel or two in a 5 gallon i may just set up at work until he gets bigger.

deff don't kill him, I know many people on here who would pay for him to be put in a tank by himself ^_^

Calappidae · 10/25/2013, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicoReef

that's more or less what i have read in my research, however, i have had 2 cleaner shrimp disappear and a good amount of my snails disappearing leaving only their shell. this is over a period of about 2 months. i have a feeling this guy is a little aggressive. he is still very small though, maybe only an inch. i want to get him out before he becomes a bigger problem. I am even thinking of keeping him with a damsel or two in a 5 gallon i may just set up at work until he gets bigger.

Like said, it depends on the indivigual mantis.

Sometimes you can get this:

Or sometimes (if not most of the time) get this..:

Calappidae · 10/25/2013, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robotman

deff don't kill him, I know many people on here who would pay for him to be put in a tank by himself ^_^

Agreed, It would be a horrible waste of a good mantis to kill it... they are amazing creatures once you get to know them.. Both of mine come out of their burrows to see me whenever I walk in the room.

If you don't want it, Many people will happily take it off your hands.

johnike · 10/25/2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicoReef

thanks John!!!! i may very well take you up on that offer if the inverted bottle trap doesn't work out. I am going to keep trying throughout the weekend, if i dont catch him i will definitely message you.

thanks again.

No worries, let me know if you need it.

RicoReef · 10/31/2013, 08:35 AM

Ok, so just to give everyone an update, I tried the bottle trap for about a week, and no luck. I did end up just caving and dipping the rock I had in RO water and it took 2 hours to finally get him to climb out. I put him in my breeder box to try and keep him alive. I was thinking about about putting him in a 5 gallon aquarium in my office for now. he looked lethargic at first but seemed to be doing a little better after about an hour or so. unfortunately two days later he died before i could set up the 5 gallon. dont know if it was too much stress or what.

Roachant · 10/31/2013, 11:37 AM

Maybe those zoanthids in there with him killed him, they are poisonous. ;-)

RicoReef · 10/31/2013, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roachant

Maybe those zoanthids in there with him killed him, they are poisonous. ;-)

Really!?!?!? I had no idea! Poisonous to the touch or do they secrete something? They are the only ones that havent been doing too good. Should I remove them entirely since they havent revived yet?

oscarinw · 10/31/2013, 10:28 PM

I think he may have been joking around.

Beandawg · 11/01/2013, 12:43 AM

Palytoxin. Look it up.

Reefer54 · 11/01/2013, 01:05 AM

dont touch them then your eyes...

but he was joking

Roachant · 11/01/2013, 04:03 AM

Yes, they do secrete palytoxins which can be pretty nasty to us but I am unsure about the extent of poisoning to other sea creatures. It is a possibility if the zoas were not happy and producing toxins in the breeder net that the mantis was affected being in such close proximity.
Althought, two hours in r/o water is what most likely did him in.

Saltliquid · 11/01/2013, 06:35 AM

Some zoas have enough toxin to kill quite a few adults in each polyp but it has to get in through a cut or similar usually, though some will go in through your pores.
They are one of the most toxic of all life forms.
If they stress in a closed environment, their stress response may kill most everything.
Oh and if a brittle sea star has a spiky appearance in any way, get rid of it!

10/24/2013, 03:36 PM	#2
Calappidae Harlequin Shrimp Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Somewhere Posts: 3,814	Any hitchhiking micro brittles are harmless. (if) they get a foot in diameter there is a very small risk of gobies or slow, bottom dwelling fish being eaten. __________________ Joe

10/31/2013, 11:37 AM	#16
Roachant Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saint - Hubert, Quebec, Canada Posts: 71	Maybe those zoanthids in there with him killed him, they are poisonous. ;-) __________________ My fishes breath smells like fish food. Current Tank Info: 40 gallon breeder with 25 gallon sump, coralife skimmer 125, 120 watt led fixture

11/01/2013, 01:05 AM	#20
Reefer54 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Avon Posts: 1,087	dont touch them then your eyes... but he was joking __________________ R54 Current Tank Info: 36 x 36 x 25 Cube, mixed reef, A360WE x 3, A350N x 1, 40GB sump, RDSB, Remote LR Cryptic, 2 WP-40's, ummm....

11/01/2013, 04:03 AM	#21
Roachant Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saint - Hubert, Quebec, Canada Posts: 71	Yes, they do secrete palytoxins which can be pretty nasty to us but I am unsure about the extent of poisoning to other sea creatures. It is a possibility if the zoas were not happy and producing toxins in the breeder net that the mantis was affected being in such close proximity. Althought, two hours in r/o water is what most likely did him in. __________________ My fishes breath smells like fish food. Current Tank Info: 40 gallon breeder with 25 gallon sump, coralife skimmer 125, 120 watt led fixture

10/24/2013, 10:20 PM	#3
oscarinw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Western Massachusetts Posts: 1,091	Look for the inverted top bottle trap method for the mantis removal. Seems to be popular. Good luck with things

10/25/2013, 04:25 AM	#6
johnike Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bureau County Illinois Posts: 5,406	Rico, I have a Mantis trap laying around if you need it.

10/25/2013, 08:09 AM	#7
RicoReef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 15	thanks everyone!!! i tried the inverted bottle trap last night with mysis shrimp as bait and i only caught my sandsifting snails and one of my chromis. i left in there today while im at work, patience seems to be a theme with this hobby. lol.

10/31/2013, 10:28 PM	#18
oscarinw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Western Massachusetts Posts: 1,091	I think he may have been joking around.

11/01/2013, 12:43 AM	#19
Beandawg I see whatchu did there. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Central CT Posts: 666	Palytoxin. Look it up.

11/01/2013, 06:35 AM	#22
Saltliquid Registered Member. Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 911	Some zoas have enough toxin to kill quite a few adults in each polyp but it has to get in through a cut or similar usually, though some will go in through your pores. They are one of the most toxic of all life forms. If they stress in a closed environment, their stress response may kill most everything. Oh and if a brittle sea star has a spiky appearance in any way, get rid of it!