MP60 in a 500g

Osama · 11/30/2013, 09:13 AM

My new setup has four MP60 pumps for internal circulation in my 500g setup. They work fine but after I put the sand in I am unable to use them because of the sand floating up even at the lower speeds on the pumps. I started with sand grain of 0.5 to 1.5 mm that was too fine so I added on top of it 1.0 to 2.0 mm sand and that is better but still I get serious vortex uplifts of sand under the pumps and at higher speeds a serious disturbance of sand bed .. Any suggestion on how to best protect the sand bed while still have the ability of running these pumps at any desired speed ( tank dimensions 10.833 feet long by thirty inches wide and thirty inches deep as well.)
Pump sitting quite high and a bit lower about six inches on opposite side

kfisc · 11/30/2013, 10:26 AM

Awesome tank! I'm sure you've thought of substantially lowering the depth of the sandbed in the immediate vicinity of the pumps?

Osama · 11/30/2013, 10:53 AM

Thanks I have tried that and even a half inch of sand was getting disturbed.. I do not want to raise the pumps anymore as I have plenty of circulation from the main header returns. I am contemplating adding a rock structure in the vicinity of the pumps. Right now is pure sand. I wanted to improve MP60 performance before getting rocks in those areas. I'll wait and see if I get other ideas as well and may thanks

ca1ore · 11/30/2013, 01:11 PM

Did you rinse the sand prior to putting it into the tank? If you did not the surface disturbance from the vortechs may simple be releasing fines in the sand bed.

Osama · 11/30/2013, 01:50 PM

The bottom sand layer is the 0.5 mm grain size & was not washed the top surface is the 1-2 mm and was washed. MP60 maybe too strong & not designed to be used with sand beds??? or just has to be raised by more than 15 inches above a sand bed.. Not practical in my case to have my MP pumps higher than where they are..

smb2415 · 11/30/2013, 01:55 PM

Osama, I'm going to have a very similar setup. My 550 (7'x3'x42" tall) with mp60 on each end or both on be end, need to play with that. Then supplement with mp40 on sides where needed. I opted for a DSB using carb sea special grade ocean floor #00050 with grain of 1-2mm. If I have a similar problem I'm planning on spreading some course sand over that area, using some shells, small rock structure. A single rock could change the flow enough to stop the turbulence.

What you your plans for lights and skimmer?

Osama · 11/30/2013, 02:19 PM

smb: For lights I am using 160W maxspect 27" razor (5 ovrer main tank and one on each frag & refuge tanks). For skimmer my installer/purchaser-LFS uses in his store and sold me on a custom skimmer by Aquarium engineer . Cannot comment on performance as my system is in the setting up stage. Running for two weeks and not all equipment is connected yet..
Picture of skimmer FYI

Regarding the MP 60 I have 4 in my main tank one in each corner on either side of my overflows. I will be working with rock formations under the MPs and see how that works out
can see my setup/progress here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2347859

ca1ore · 11/30/2013, 02:35 PM

Well, I use a MP60 on one end of my 7 ft 265 and though it certainly does move some sand, I do not get any in the water column. Using well washed special grade reef floor sand and pump is about 18 inches above the sand. Osama, what I suspect is happening in your tank is that the pump is moving around the top layer of the sand and allowing the finer bottom layer to then get sprayed around.

smb2415 · 11/30/2013, 02:37 PM

Osama, that one heck of a skimmer! I considering using the bk supermarin 300. As for lights I want led but my depth is challenging so I'm still undecided n that one.

Your build is looking great. Following along. I hope to be adding water next week. My build can be found in my contact info.

Osama · 11/30/2013, 02:53 PM

ca1 & smb My first layer of fine sand is Carib Sea AragaMax Select #00932 that was too fine at 0.5-1.5mm and the package arrived stating it is 0.5-1.0 not 1.5 mm as advertised.
The coarser grain / top layer is Carib Sea - Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand. 1-2mm Much better for the flow desired.
My finer sand is not exposed as I turned down my MP60s till I have an arrangement of rock that will prevent the pump from exposing the finer layer... Work in progress and trying out all ideas,.. Thanks..
Also having pumps at both ends for a total of four maybe I will be able to maximize the speed only on two at a time... More to follow in future.. Meanwhile I will test any reasonable ideas.. Thanks again to both and I appreciate your thoughts

11/30/2013, 09:13 AM	#1
Osama Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Palatine NW suburb of Chicago Posts: 1,026	MP60 in a 500g My new setup has four MP60 pumps for internal circulation in my 500g setup. They work fine but after I put the sand in I am unable to use them because of the sand floating up even at the lower speeds on the pumps. I started with sand grain of 0.5 to 1.5 mm that was too fine so I added on top of it 1.0 to 2.0 mm sand and that is better but still I get serious vortex uplifts of sand under the pumps and at higher speeds a serious disturbance of sand bed .. Any suggestion on how to best protect the sand bed while still have the ability of running these pumps at any desired speed ( tank dimensions 10.833 feet long by thirty inches wide and thirty inches deep as well.) Pump sitting quite high and a bit lower about six inches on opposite side

11/30/2013, 10:26 AM	#2
kfisc Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,020	Awesome tank! I'm sure you've thought of substantially lowering the depth of the sandbed in the immediate vicinity of the pumps?

11/30/2013, 10:53 AM	#3
Osama Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Palatine NW suburb of Chicago Posts: 1,026	Thanks I have tried that and even a half inch of sand was getting disturbed.. I do not want to raise the pumps anymore as I have plenty of circulation from the main header returns. I am contemplating adding a rock structure in the vicinity of the pumps. Right now is pure sand. I wanted to improve MP60 performance before getting rocks in those areas. I'll wait and see if I get other ideas as well and may thanks

11/30/2013, 01:11 PM	#4
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Did you rinse the sand prior to putting it into the tank? If you did not the surface disturbance from the vortechs may simple be releasing fines in the sand bed.

11/30/2013, 01:50 PM	#5
Osama Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Palatine NW suburb of Chicago Posts: 1,026	The bottom sand layer is the 0.5 mm grain size & was not washed the top surface is the 1-2 mm and was washed. MP60 maybe too strong & not designed to be used with sand beds??? or just has to be raised by more than 15 inches above a sand bed.. Not practical in my case to have my MP pumps higher than where they are..

11/30/2013, 01:55 PM	#6
smb2415 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Wallingford, CT Posts: 738	Osama, I'm going to have a very similar setup. My 550 (7'x3'x42" tall) with mp60 on each end or both on be end, need to play with that. Then supplement with mp40 on sides where needed. I opted for a DSB using carb sea special grade ocean floor #00050 with grain of 1-2mm. If I have a similar problem I'm planning on spreading some course sand over that area, using some shells, small rock structure. A single rock could change the flow enough to stop the turbulence. What you your plans for lights and skimmer?

11/30/2013, 02:19 PM	#7
Osama Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Palatine NW suburb of Chicago Posts: 1,026	smb: For lights I am using 160W maxspect 27" razor (5 ovrer main tank and one on each frag & refuge tanks). For skimmer my installer/purchaser-LFS uses in his store and sold me on a custom skimmer by Aquarium engineer . Cannot comment on performance as my system is in the setting up stage. Running for two weeks and not all equipment is connected yet.. Picture of skimmer FYI Regarding the MP 60 I have 4 in my main tank one in each corner on either side of my overflows. I will be working with rock formations under the MPs and see how that works out can see my setup/progress here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2347859

11/30/2013, 02:35 PM	#8
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Well, I use a MP60 on one end of my 7 ft 265 and though it certainly does move some sand, I do not get any in the water column. Using well washed special grade reef floor sand and pump is about 18 inches above the sand. Osama, what I suspect is happening in your tank is that the pump is moving around the top layer of the sand and allowing the finer bottom layer to then get sprayed around.

11/30/2013, 02:37 PM	#9
smb2415 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Wallingford, CT Posts: 738	Osama, that one heck of a skimmer! I considering using the bk supermarin 300. As for lights I want led but my depth is challenging so I'm still undecided n that one. Your build is looking great. Following along. I hope to be adding water next week. My build can be found in my contact info.

11/30/2013, 02:53 PM	#10
Osama Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Palatine NW suburb of Chicago Posts: 1,026	ca1 & smb My first layer of fine sand is Carib Sea AragaMax Select #00932 that was too fine at 0.5-1.5mm and the package arrived stating it is 0.5-1.0 not 1.5 mm as advertised. The coarser grain / top layer is Carib Sea - Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand. 1-2mm Much better for the flow desired. My finer sand is not exposed as I turned down my MP60s till I have an arrangement of rock that will prevent the pump from exposing the finer layer... Work in progress and trying out all ideas,.. Thanks.. Also having pumps at both ends for a total of four maybe I will be able to maximize the speed only on two at a time... More to follow in future.. Meanwhile I will test any reasonable ideas.. Thanks again to both and I appreciate your thoughts