are all these fish ok together in a 40 gal breader

[davidaguilarr32]

Heres my live stock list wanted to know if these are going to be peacefull with one another iv done a lot of research and I hope I nailed it hope to get everyones opinion what do you think
2 ocellaris clownfish
1 blue spotted watchmen goby
1 blue mandarin
1Blue sea star
1Dwarf zebra hermit crab
1 emerald crab
1 cleaner shrimp
And maybe a saddle valentinie puffer

Also the tank is going to be fish with live rock only

[danimallaminad]

if by blue sea star you mean a linkia star than no, they are very hard to feed and need a big aquarium to roam. The fish minus the puffer should be fine, for the mandarin you should wait awhile because you want your pod population very healthy and flourishing to have one. The puffer may be okay, i have never kept one but I can't see anything extremely wrong, except it might eat the crabs and hermits.

[mcpiii1124]

You should be fine i have my blue linkia in a 30- granite he is only 3 inches leg to leg but i have had him almost 6 months no issues. He is going in my 125 in a few weeks tho.

[MondoBongo]

i would not put a mandarin in a tank that small, any type of dragonet for that matter.

their feeding requirements are not well suited for a home that size. even if they are allegedly eating frozen/prepared.

-edit-

ESPECIALLY not with a puffer.

[PirateToast]

Why not with the puffer?

Edit:

This shows them as compatible: http://www.marinecompatibilityguide....astervalentini

Unless your argument is not enough food?

[PirateToast]

Furthermore... liveaquaria shows minimum size for green mandarins as 30 gallons. Their estimates seem to match up with RC's most of the time, they seem pretty responsible. As long as OP has a plan to get them enough food (e.g. growing pods in another tank), I don't see the issue?

[hogfanreefer]

Originally Posted by PirateToast

Why not with the puffer?

Edit:

This shows them as compatible: http://www.marinecompatibilityguide....astervalentini

Unless your argument is not enough food?

I think it's the invertebrates that are not compatible with the puffer.

[Bpb]

If you're able to feed the mandarin that's fine but you'll either need a refugium, or to purchase pods every couple months to reload the population it will no doubt clear out, regardless if it eats frozen food. Even a frozen trained mandarin hunts pods.

[Reefmedic79]

I second or third the opinion of not putting a mandarin or a puffer in the tank.

It will likely be pretty expensive to constantly restock you pod population short of setting up your own culturing set-up. It would also compete with a puffer for food, as well as the puffer will likely eat your clean up crew, i.e. any crab or snail, that would need constant replenishment. Puffers can also get mean and territorial as they get bigger, even ones that are deemed peaceful.

The general opinion from experienced reefers to keep a mandarin, is a tank that is 8-12 months old with 60-100lbs of liverock. This is to ensure success, without the need for supplemental feeding. Though many have had success with less.

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by PirateToast

Why not with the puffer?

Edit:

This shows them as compatible: http://www.marinecompatibilityguide....astervalentini

Unless your argument is not enough food?

my main argument for the mandy is not enough food. i don't care what live aquaria says about their tank sizes. their mission is to sell fish, and many times they are on the optimistic side of estimates. especially for specialized feeders like dragonets.

but with the puffer because of how laid back the mandarins are. if puffer gets aggressive or territorial, or if you're trying to train the mandy to eat frozen/prepared it will get out competed very quickly by a puffer.

mainly the tank size though. that's just way small. the smallest i would really feel comfortable putting a dragonet in is a 75 with about a 20ish gallon sump on it and lots of rock. even in that setup you're going to want to supplement them to make sure they're eating.

[PirateToast]

Gah, I'm kind of a newbie, so I don't want to disagree, but I think your points are a bit off based on the research I've done.

All signs seem to point to the Mandarin and the Puffer being perfectly compatible together. All info indicates they are perfectly fine in a 40 gallon tank. However, this assumes that there is ample food, which would have to be supplied externally. I think we all agree with hogfanreefer, that the puffer and invertebrates won't work.

I know you mentioned not caring about live aquaria. One of the top examples I saw was a blue tang, RC recommends 75 gallons for it. Live aquaria recommends 180 gallons. I think this indicates that they are promoting responsible reef keeping. Which makes sense, if you want repeat customers, you should keep people satisfied.

Either way, the original question is that the complete mix OP asked about won't really work.

[BlueFyre]

IMO the idea that a mandarin needs 100s of gallons to survive just do not seem to be the case. It's easy to train them to eat prepared foods. I have had mine in a 65 gallon (same foot print) for 8 months. He was skinny when I got him now he is a little sausage. I also have red scooter (another dragonet) that is doing very well. Yup 2 dragonets in my 65 gallon that are not starving but seem to be doing very well. I have had the scooter for over a year.

Mine eat frozen, pellets, some flakes and repashy. Live aquaria is an excellent starting place when figuring out about what size tank a fish needs. Mandarins are not easy but are a lot easier than some make them out to be.



EDIT I added my scooter when the tank was 3 months old, the mandy when it was 6 months old. I have yet to add any pods to the tank.

I also know of other sites when dragonets in tanks as small as 10 gallons. Now this is a tough set up due to all the feeding BUT it has been done, many times.

[Khemul]

Originally Posted by PirateToast

Why not with the puffer?

Edit:

This shows them as compatible: http://www.marinecompatibilityguide....astervalentini

Unless your argument is not enough food?

Here's the thing with puffers, ALL puffers have a wide range of potential personalities that range from innocent angel to homicidal maniac. It's what gives them their charm. They are all individuals and prone to their own quirks and habits. Some are more prone to certain areas of that range then others. Tobies tend more towards the friendly side, so odds are the fish are safe (inverts are a complete toss-up, although Tobies do give the best odds at compatibility), but there is always the chance with any puffer of an extreme personality.

In my experience, try to make sure it eats just about anything, since it is the picky eaters that tend to get desperate and start playing the puffer past-time of 'is it edible'. Also, make sure there is plenty for it to explore. This is usually more of a problem for freshwater puffers then saltwater, since live-rock displays usually automatically fill this requirement. But either way, a bored puffer is a dangerous creature.

[Tuton]

personally I would skip the mandarin, as they eat all day every day and in a tank of that size it is likely to starve....
I had a scooter blenny starve that was eating frozen food....
The toby puffers tend to behave better if they are well fed...
Get them eating algae sheets and frequently feed them frozen food so they don't try to sample their tankmates....

[MondoBongo]

Sure "it has been done" successfully a handful of times. It has also failed many more.

I wouldn't rely on it reliably eating frozen. They exhibit a wide range of personal preferences. Even eating prepared it is not ideal due to their grazing.

You're making your life harder than needed in a 40 for a dragonet.

[FTDelta]

You can get a Mandarin BUT I'd wait until your tank is at least 1 year old. By then you will have ample supply of pods for food. If you plan on having a refugium or sump, you can raise pods in there. Again, I'd wait until your tank is fully matured of at least a year.

As far as the blue Linkia star (I'm going to assume you have a Linkia Sea Star , I wouldn't get one for they will starve once his food source they need to survive is depleted. Not to mention they get about a foot scross - too big for a tank your size. Instead why not get a Blue Tuxedo Urchin instead. They stay fairly small (2 inches max) as long as you secure your rockwork. Otherwise if you don't you'll have a rockslide in your tank.

Puffer fish need larger tanks and as a couple folks mentioned - they're not compatible with inverts.

[hogfanreefer]

Originally Posted by PirateToast

I know you mentioned not caring about live aquaria. One of the top examples I saw was a blue tang, RC recommends 75 gallons for it. Live aquaria recommends 180 gallons. I think this indicates that they are promoting responsible reef keeping. Which makes sense, if you want repeat customers, you should keep people satisfied.

For the record, the RC recommendation for an Atlantic Blue tang is a 6', 125 gallon tank. Only difference between that and a 180 is depth and width which as I understand is less important than tank length for tangs.

As far as I can tell, that's the only instance where RC recommendations are smaller than LA. I respect LA a lot and do business with them all the time but I think I'll stick with the RC hobbyists that don't have any interest other than the hobby.

[PirateToast]

Originally Posted by hogfanreefer

For the record, the RC recommendation for an Atlantic Blue tang is a 6', 125 gallon tank. Only difference between that and a 180 is depth and width which as I understand is less important than tank length for tangs.

As far as I can tell, that's the only instance where RC recommendations are smaller than LA. I respect LA a lot and do business with them all the time but I think I'll stick with the RC hobbyists that don't have any interest other than the hobby.

Ah you're right, I was looking at the wrong tang on the list. I'm not going to look through every fish, I just thought it was interesting that RC's recommendation was less conservative for one of the more popular fish.

I just try to cross reference everything. Like I like to see information confirmed on a few different sites, but heavily weigh RC of course.

[FTDelta]

Most tangs need longer and larger tanks to thrive best. Kole & Bristletooth can do well in tanks of 55 - 100 gallons due to their smallish size.

[Cu455]

My puffer and mandarin do fine togeather. The puffer doesn't bother my snails or crabs. If you want one I would give it a try. If you are worried about your clean up crew buy larger specimens. The puffer you want stays relatively small and has a small mouth.


Sometimes I see them hunt togeather.