Canister Filter Position

HB Fash · 01/06/2014, 10:06 PM

Can a canister filter, in particular the Fluval 106, be placed on the same level as the aquarium.
I am setting up a work top Nano and trying to maximise space in the aquarium.
Drilling down under the counter is not an option (yet) and am wondering if the canister being on the same level would cause an issue?

Maxxumless · 01/06/2014, 10:37 PM

Yes, as long as the siphoning portion of the filter is U shaped (so that a siphon can occur). I've had a few Fluval's and they all work as long as there's a siphon (top of tank is higher than top of Fluval). Personally, I'd look into a HOB instead of a canister if this is going to house corals. It's a myth that sponges act like "nitrate" factory's. Mechanical filtration doesn't put nitrates into a system, it simply traps what is already there so you can get it out before it does begin to breakdown. Canisters were not meant to be opened up every few days to be cleaned out and I guarantee you, that will get old fast. With a HOB filter, you'd be able to use it as a little fuge with some Purigen or ChemiPure along with some macro algae and a little light (DIY). If you don't want a fuge, cleaning out the sponge on a HOB filter is far more easy than with a canister, and it doesn't take up much room either.

If this is going to be a FOWLR, then disregard what I've said

HB Fash · 01/06/2014, 10:53 PM

initially going for fish only, unsure about corals and keeping them. Currently looking into all types of filters including hang on filters.
space above where i plan to place the aquarium is an issue so unsure if HOB will fit. Going for a 12" high tank to slide into 15" gap. Found lots of lighting that will sit on top of the tank in that small area but unsure if there would be room for a HOB. I would need to find one with minimal height above the tank that is why im looking into canisters that could sit next to the tank.
Just came across the Aquael minikani which has a pump that is placed in the tank but it does not advise if it can be used on marine aquariums

Maxxumless · 01/06/2014, 11:28 PM

And you've looked at all-in-one tanks like the Nuvo series? You could use some of that furniture moving stuff (the material not the plastic disks) and put that under the tank so you could pull it out from the space to remove the media tray (I'd buy the inTank after market basket btw). I dont know what size 'cuby' this is fitting into, but you might be able to stick a (or couple) LED bar's onto the top of whereever you're inserting the tank. That could maximize the available space for you too. A JBJ ATO could be hung on the back (Amazon sells a hob holder for aqualifter pump) for a top-off system and 1gallon jug. If you'd like links to what I'm talking about it wouldn't be a bother...

HB Fash · 01/06/2014, 11:35 PM

I'm going for a 24 x 12 x 12" tank. Looked into in tank but with a protein skimmer in there as well I don't want to use up to much space. Granted an I t and one may fit snugly in a corner if I can find a compact enough one

Maxxumless · 01/06/2014, 11:52 PM

Well, that leaves the 14G BioCube, the 12G JBJ, 8G JBJ Nano Cube, Innovative marine 4G & 8G Nano's, Aqueon Evolve Kit, then there are some specialized (expensive) options, and then all the smaller tanks without any frills (no filtration area). Skimmer's are nice, but they aren't required for nano's and that goes doubly for FOWLR tanks. The BioCube and JBJ tanks can have skimmers, but IMO the ones meant for them aren't great and more of a pain than a help. You'd have to modify them to take better skimmers and all of these will stick up higher than the tanks themselves (way higher in come cases). These skimmers aren't cheap either. In most cases 2-4 gallon water changes every week will cost you much less and clean your water far better than most skimmers.

If you're willing to buy a stand, I'd look closely at the BioCube 29G w/ HQI for around $550 if the room is going to be temperature controlled. The 29 has a LOT of mod's that can help you with ATOs, skimmers, and lighting options for the future.

HB Fash · 01/07/2014, 12:15 AM

Not going for any named aquarium just a standard 24x12x12 glass build.
I have looked into small skimmers and have found a few that would do for the volume of the tank.

are you saying that i do not need a skimmer in a fish only tank with live rock? and what about filtration? im guessing that this is necessary.

Maxxumless · 01/07/2014, 12:41 AM

HOB skimmers, which I think you're looking at, almost always will put bubbles into your display. I can think of three that are better than others, but they come with compromises. The AquaC Remora Nano I think has a surface skimmer option that will reduce bubbles, but it's big - IMO it's an eyesore. Then there's the AquaMaxx HOB-1 and Reef Octopus BH2000 which are both $200+ (and not small). The Eshopps PSK-100H gets good reviews, but I don't have any experience with it.

A 15G aquarium that has 4g water changes every 2 weeks, has a HOB filter with ChemiPure Elite, SeaChem Matrix, & blue/white pre-filter (changed every week), and maybe 8lbs or so of LR would be more than adequate. If you plan on not doing water changes that often, I would get one of the skimmers I mentioned.

Just don't pile up the rock in there. Leave space in the back and sides and use a two part aquarium safe cement to build a reefscape that will look nice. Rocks that are just piled up will cause a lot of problems down the road due to them trapping a lot of detritus.

HB Fash · 01/08/2014, 02:17 PM

OK so came across the aquael minikani 80 canister.
http://www.aquael.com/index.php?opti...id=321&lang=en
I asked the company if it would be suitable for marine aquariums and was informed that they do not know of any but there is nothing to stop me as long as i have ceramic filtration within the canister.
As far as i can tell there is a carbon filter, sponge filter, Zeolite filter and ceramic.
The following is a quote from the email I recieved from them.
They recommend that one filter media – zeolite you can change for ceramic.
As the cartridge already has ceramic in it i was thinking that either their range of nitromax or phosmax media would be a good choice but am unsure.
the cartridge would cost me in the region of £45 and the new media that i have just mentioned are £15 and £18 respectively.
Cost is an issue and have been considering internal filters that are cheaper than external ones but take up valuable space in the aquarium, especially when setting up a nano.
Fluval do have a nano filter that would just about cover the size of my tank 15 gallons and is slim, 2" depth. with the addition of carbon in this filter, which is an option and my live rock, 1000L/H power head and internal protein skimmer would that suffice.
I would consider HOB filtration but i would have to know exactly how high above my aquarium this would reach before purchasing as I would only have 3" between the top of my tank and some kitchen units.

Maxxumless · 01/08/2014, 04:52 PM

I think I can visualize the area, but a picture would be better.

If you cannot, within reason, mess with a HOB filter (like having to move the tank to get to it), then yea, a canister filter may be better in your situation. If you can get to the back, then a Hagen AquaClear 30 or 50 would be my choice. I measured one of mine (QT) and it sticks up 1,5" and 2,2" with the little flow lever. I'd also recommend the Ecoxotic 12.5 Inch Stunner 6W 12000K/445nm Blue LED Strip for your lights as it can be attached to just about anything, is bright, inexpensive, & can be upgraded with a few more strips if you want to house corals later.

If you have your heart set on the canister you'll want to use a sponge > SeaChem Matrix > ChemiPure Elite (& > SeaChem Purigen Optional if there is space). The same would go for an AquaClear, media wise. The included media on the canister is meant for fresh water, not salt, even though it could be used (except Zeolite which contains aluminum I believe). The media I mentioned is pretty standard stuff and widely used by aquarists around the world - no surprises and will have a long life compared to the freshwater media you mentioned. ChemiPure lasts months, Purigen can be regenerated many times, and Matrix doesn't disintegrate over time.

How are you going to deal with evaporation? A glass or acrylic top will slow it down, but it won't prevent it (which is bad anyway). A HOB filter will accelerate it.

HB Fash · 01/08/2014, 08:08 PM

heart is not set on a canister by no means i am just weighing up the options.
was planning on an acrylic top to slow evaporation down. obviously making adjustments to allow for HOB if required. I would also cut the acrylic to allow the light better penetration or would this not be required on a clear acrylic lid?

HB Fash · 01/08/2014, 08:08 PM

Oh forgot to say the filter you suggested aquaclear 30 or even the 50 would be a good fit many thanks

Maxxumless · 01/08/2014, 08:26 PM

Yea, I'd go acrylic too. Easier to cut/mill, lighter, and stops less light. 3" isn't much to play with, but it can be done. Love to see how it turns out for you - post a pic when you're setup.

HB Fash · 01/08/2014, 08:49 PM

At work for the next few days so when i have time i will begin set up. slowly purchasing as i go. last few things to get, a filter and lighting. Both your suggestions there are good ideas and reasonably priced her in UK.
only wished i kept my Juwel Trigon 190 that would have made a great marine tank but I got rid of it prior to house move

HB Fash · 01/08/2014, 09:24 PM

The filter media you suggest earlier in this post, how do you store it within the filter? do you need to buy permeable bags or just pile up in the filter?

Maxxumless · 01/08/2014, 09:32 PM

I think you can buy them sized for the 30 or 50 and they come with two per pack. One for half bag of ChemiPure Elite and the other for SeaChem Matrix. Purigen, if you use it, has it's own bag. Some people say that it's overkill to use Purigen and ChemiPure, but I find that ChemiPure is excellent at removing chemicals while Purigen is an excellent water polisher (thus it being the final stage of filtration).

01/06/2014, 10:06 PM	#1
HB Fash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: UK Posts: 32	Canister Filter Position Can a canister filter, in particular the Fluval 106, be placed on the same level as the aquarium. I am setting up a work top Nano and trying to maximise space in the aquarium. Drilling down under the counter is not an option (yet) and am wondering if the canister being on the same level would cause an issue?

01/06/2014, 10:37 PM	#2
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	Yes, as long as the siphoning portion of the filter is U shaped (so that a siphon can occur). I've had a few Fluval's and they all work as long as there's a siphon (top of tank is higher than top of Fluval). Personally, I'd look into a HOB instead of a canister if this is going to house corals. It's a myth that sponges act like "nitrate" factory's. Mechanical filtration doesn't put nitrates into a system, it simply traps what is already there so you can get it out before it does begin to breakdown. Canisters were not meant to be opened up every few days to be cleaned out and I guarantee you, that will get old fast. With a HOB filter, you'd be able to use it as a little fuge with some Purigen or ChemiPure along with some macro algae and a little light (DIY). If you don't want a fuge, cleaning out the sponge on a HOB filter is far more easy than with a canister, and it doesn't take up much room either. If this is going to be a FOWLR, then disregard what I've said

01/06/2014, 10:53 PM	#3
HB Fash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: UK Posts: 32	initially going for fish only, unsure about corals and keeping them. Currently looking into all types of filters including hang on filters. space above where i plan to place the aquarium is an issue so unsure if HOB will fit. Going for a 12" high tank to slide into 15" gap. Found lots of lighting that will sit on top of the tank in that small area but unsure if there would be room for a HOB. I would need to find one with minimal height above the tank that is why im looking into canisters that could sit next to the tank. Just came across the Aquael minikani which has a pump that is placed in the tank but it does not advise if it can be used on marine aquariums

01/06/2014, 11:28 PM	#4
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	And you've looked at all-in-one tanks like the Nuvo series? You could use some of that furniture moving stuff (the material not the plastic disks) and put that under the tank so you could pull it out from the space to remove the media tray (I'd buy the inTank after market basket btw). I dont know what size 'cuby' this is fitting into, but you might be able to stick a (or couple) LED bar's onto the top of whereever you're inserting the tank. That could maximize the available space for you too. A JBJ ATO could be hung on the back (Amazon sells a hob holder for aqualifter pump) for a top-off system and 1gallon jug. If you'd like links to what I'm talking about it wouldn't be a bother...

01/06/2014, 11:35 PM	#5
HB Fash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: UK Posts: 32	I'm going for a 24 x 12 x 12" tank. Looked into in tank but with a protein skimmer in there as well I don't want to use up to much space. Granted an I t and one may fit snugly in a corner if I can find a compact enough one

01/06/2014, 11:52 PM	#6
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	Well, that leaves the 14G BioCube, the 12G JBJ, 8G JBJ Nano Cube, Innovative marine 4G & 8G Nano's, Aqueon Evolve Kit, then there are some specialized (expensive) options, and then all the smaller tanks without any frills (no filtration area). Skimmer's are nice, but they aren't required for nano's and that goes doubly for FOWLR tanks. The BioCube and JBJ tanks can have skimmers, but IMO the ones meant for them aren't great and more of a pain than a help. You'd have to modify them to take better skimmers and all of these will stick up higher than the tanks themselves (way higher in come cases). These skimmers aren't cheap either. In most cases 2-4 gallon water changes every week will cost you much less and clean your water far better than most skimmers. If you're willing to buy a stand, I'd look closely at the BioCube 29G w/ HQI for around $550 if the room is going to be temperature controlled. The 29 has a LOT of mod's that can help you with ATOs, skimmers, and lighting options for the future.

01/07/2014, 12:15 AM	#7
HB Fash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: UK Posts: 32	Not going for any named aquarium just a standard 24x12x12 glass build. I have looked into small skimmers and have found a few that would do for the volume of the tank. are you saying that i do not need a skimmer in a fish only tank with live rock? and what about filtration? im guessing that this is necessary.

01/07/2014, 12:41 AM	#8
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	HOB skimmers, which I think you're looking at, almost always will put bubbles into your display. I can think of three that are better than others, but they come with compromises. The AquaC Remora Nano I think has a surface skimmer option that will reduce bubbles, but it's big - IMO it's an eyesore. Then there's the AquaMaxx HOB-1 and Reef Octopus BH2000 which are both $200+ (and not small). The Eshopps PSK-100H gets good reviews, but I don't have any experience with it. A 15G aquarium that has 4g water changes every 2 weeks, has a HOB filter with ChemiPure Elite, SeaChem Matrix, & blue/white pre-filter (changed every week), and maybe 8lbs or so of LR would be more than adequate. If you plan on not doing water changes that often, I would get one of the skimmers I mentioned. Just don't pile up the rock in there. Leave space in the back and sides and use a two part aquarium safe cement to build a reefscape that will look nice. Rocks that are just piled up will cause a lot of problems down the road due to them trapping a lot of detritus.

01/08/2014, 02:17 PM	#9
HB Fash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: UK Posts: 32	OK so came across the aquael minikani 80 canister. http://www.aquael.com/index.php?opti...id=321&lang=en I asked the company if it would be suitable for marine aquariums and was informed that they do not know of any but there is nothing to stop me as long as i have ceramic filtration within the canister. As far as i can tell there is a carbon filter, sponge filter, Zeolite filter and ceramic. The following is a quote from the email I recieved from them. They recommend that one filter media – zeolite you can change for ceramic. As the cartridge already has ceramic in it i was thinking that either their range of nitromax or phosmax media would be a good choice but am unsure. the cartridge would cost me in the region of £45 and the new media that i have just mentioned are £15 and £18 respectively. Cost is an issue and have been considering internal filters that are cheaper than external ones but take up valuable space in the aquarium, especially when setting up a nano. Fluval do have a nano filter that would just about cover the size of my tank 15 gallons and is slim, 2" depth. with the addition of carbon in this filter, which is an option and my live rock, 1000L/H power head and internal protein skimmer would that suffice. I would consider HOB filtration but i would have to know exactly how high above my aquarium this would reach before purchasing as I would only have 3" between the top of my tank and some kitchen units.

01/08/2014, 04:52 PM	#10
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	I think I can visualize the area, but a picture would be better. If you cannot, within reason, mess with a HOB filter (like having to move the tank to get to it), then yea, a canister filter may be better in your situation. If you can get to the back, then a Hagen AquaClear 30 or 50 would be my choice. I measured one of mine (QT) and it sticks up 1,5" and 2,2" with the little flow lever. I'd also recommend the Ecoxotic 12.5 Inch Stunner 6W 12000K/445nm Blue LED Strip for your lights as it can be attached to just about anything, is bright, inexpensive, & can be upgraded with a few more strips if you want to house corals later. If you have your heart set on the canister you'll want to use a sponge > SeaChem Matrix > ChemiPure Elite (& > SeaChem Purigen Optional if there is space). The same would go for an AquaClear, media wise. The included media on the canister is meant for fresh water, not salt, even though it could be used (except Zeolite which contains aluminum I believe). The media I mentioned is pretty standard stuff and widely used by aquarists around the world - no surprises and will have a long life compared to the freshwater media you mentioned. ChemiPure lasts months, Purigen can be regenerated many times, and Matrix doesn't disintegrate over time. How are you going to deal with evaporation? A glass or acrylic top will slow it down, but it won't prevent it (which is bad anyway). A HOB filter will accelerate it.

01/08/2014, 08:08 PM	#11
HB Fash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: UK Posts: 32	heart is not set on a canister by no means i am just weighing up the options. was planning on an acrylic top to slow evaporation down. obviously making adjustments to allow for HOB if required. I would also cut the acrylic to allow the light better penetration or would this not be required on a clear acrylic lid?

01/08/2014, 08:26 PM	#13
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	Yea, I'd go acrylic too. Easier to cut/mill, lighter, and stops less light. 3" isn't much to play with, but it can be done. Love to see how it turns out for you - post a pic when you're setup.

01/08/2014, 08:49 PM	#14
HB Fash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: UK Posts: 32	At work for the next few days so when i have time i will begin set up. slowly purchasing as i go. last few things to get, a filter and lighting. Both your suggestions there are good ideas and reasonably priced her in UK. only wished i kept my Juwel Trigon 190 that would have made a great marine tank but I got rid of it prior to house move

01/08/2014, 09:24 PM	#15
HB Fash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: UK Posts: 32	The filter media you suggest earlier in this post, how do you store it within the filter? do you need to buy permeable bags or just pile up in the filter?

01/08/2014, 09:32 PM	#16
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	I think you can buy them sized for the 30 or 50 and they come with two per pack. One for half bag of ChemiPure Elite and the other for SeaChem Matrix. Purigen, if you use it, has it's own bag. Some people say that it's overkill to use Purigen and ChemiPure, but I find that ChemiPure is excellent at removing chemicals while Purigen is an excellent water polisher (thus it being the final stage of filtration).