Any bare bottom tank fans?

solojrbb · 01/07/2014, 02:59 AM

Over the years I've had my share of different sorts and sizes of tanks. Some were gravel beds, some were gravel and substrate, some were sustate, and some were sand or sand and substate. How ever as my tanks got older and i would do battle with the nitrates monster and when I built my 180 a friend told me to leave it bare bottom. I thought he was crazy, and to be honest i'm still not crazy about it. How ever I am a heave feeder and do my share of water changes. One thing I did notice, was my nitrates were not even noticeable with this bare bottom. No waste or uneaten food. I have read that fine sand is the way to go, but that is gonna take a pretty penny to put 4-6 inches across the entire bottom of a 180. Now that I do think about it,the gravel and substrate is loose enough to hold waste and rotting food, hence us having to vacuum our gravel. I think I will use the sand method, but for now I am really pleased at how clean my water has been. anyone else use the bare bottom method and have good results?

njdevilsfan · 01/07/2014, 07:39 AM

switched my 210'from 6 - 10 inch sand bed to bare bottom
it's the greatest thing I have ever done to my tank
I love the way my zoas look and acans and the rest of my lps look on the bottom

bromdad · 01/07/2014, 08:50 AM

I prefer bare bottom. If you don't keep an overload of fish then there is no problem with nitrates. The amount of time you can keep the tank safely after a power failure is extended by multiples. No vacuuming the bed. A refugium will support many of the beneficial creatures found in a sand bed. I have seen reefers with deep sand beds keep a nice aquarium for 7-8 years but once it gets polluted, the entire bed has to be removed.

greaps · 01/07/2014, 09:01 AM

Bare Bottom Fan here.

1. I like the look, purple coralline algae covers bottom.
2. I like heavy flow
3. I like low nutrient environment

I have a 6 gallon nano, bare bottom, with only a light, a power-head, and a heater, I do 10-20% water change every 2-3 weeks and have no cyano, clean water. Tank is lightly stocked, 1 clown, and one cleaner shrimp, 1 snail, SPS / birdsnest ( from a 1 inch frag, now 6 inches across) LPS ( frogspawn reproducing / splitting ) and Zoas, spreading out.

When I eventually setup a 120-180, depending on what I find used, I will definitely be going bare bottom again. Only I plan to build a low egg crate rack to hold my rock work, keeping the glass bottom even more open to power head current.

My number 1 suggestion if going bare bottom is to make sure you have cured rocks ahead of time, you wont believe what rocks shed. And they shed for months.

Politiceaux · 01/07/2014, 09:08 AM

This thread had a unique idea for bare bottom, IMO. I'm going to try it with my upcoming setup. More of a natural look but bare bottom benefits. Win/win.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2291647

ken6217 · 01/07/2014, 09:08 AM

I had a sandbed in my 90 gallon heavily stocked SPS tank. Had some big angels in there as well. I was doing about 10-15% water changes every two weeks and eventually I got a lot of cyno / slime algae. I could not get rid of it.

I decided to syphon out all of my sand over a couple week period. Bang! All of the issues went away.

Since then, all of my tanks are bare bottom. I do like the look of a sanded, but I like no algae better.

Ken

NastyZ · 01/07/2014, 09:09 AM

Love BB I used to have a shallow sand bed but couldn't keep it as clean as I wanted so I made the switch not to mention I love high flow my tank is only a yr old and has been BB for 8 months

syrinx · 01/07/2014, 09:29 AM

Many fish are brighter colored over sand- rabbitfish and tangs in particular. Bare bottom is fine for corals, less so for the other critters.

ken6217 · 01/07/2014, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syrinx

Many fish are brighter colored over sand- rabbitfish and tangs in particular. Bare bottom is fine for corals, less so for the other critters.

So you are saying bare bottom is not fine for fish? What do you base that on?

wideawake · 01/07/2014, 09:51 AM

I have a hard time keeping my bare bottom tank clean. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

ken6217 · 01/07/2014, 10:29 AM

I don't think it's a matter of right or wrong. It's more of a it is what it is.

If it was detritus or uneaten food, you just siphon it out. For green algae, scraping I guess, even though I see that's what you are doing. It may come back again, but if you get it out and keep up with it as you would on the sides and front, it will stay out.

What about those Kent Marine or similar scrapers with a short handle for leverage. Maybe get on a stool so that you can get in easily and get at it as a good angle.
Ken

wideawake · 01/07/2014, 08:36 PM

I think it's mostly fish poo and dead algae. As I only feed as much as the fish would eat and they are very aggressive when feeding time and est everything I put in.

I have 3 big wavemakers to move water around but I still can't get the right placement yet.

Bezz · 01/07/2014, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wideawake

I think it's mostly fish poo and dead algae. As I only feed as much as the fish would eat and they are very aggressive when feeding time and est everything I put in.

I have 3 big wavemakers to move water around but I still can't get the right placement yet.

That's the reason I keep a BB.

With BB, you can siphon the detritus out quite easily. If you have sand, the detritus will still be there, but it will be very difficult to get it out. And if not removed, detritus will built up in the sand and cause other issues.

ca1ore · 01/07/2014, 09:31 PM

Not a BB fan at all. My goal is to try to replicate as closely as possible the natural reef and I have yet to see a BB reef in the wild

Plus I keep sand wrasses so I need sand. Just my opinion, but BB tanks always end up just looking messy to me.

wideawake · 01/07/2014, 09:40 PM

Yeah, it looks messy as hell. But mine has a floor plan of 8'x3', not enough dough to buy some good sand. Huhu

syrinx · 01/08/2014, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken6217

So you are saying bare bottom is not fine for fish? What do you base that on?

It is fine for fish that do not require substrate. My point is that fish often do not show their full color with a bare bottom tank. So it is not a health issue, rather a display issue. I have had many experiences where a tank would go to, or from barebottom, and the difference in fish coloration can be dramatic.

NastyZ · 01/08/2014, 05:28 PM

My fish look the exact same as they did when I had sand in fact I think my kole tang look it now has a reddish/orange out lining

Steveb · 01/08/2014, 06:12 PM

You might take a look at the last post in this thread as an option

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...vertine+bottom

NastyZ · 01/08/2014, 07:03 PM

^^ that looks awesome but the only thing id be worried about is stuff building up under the tile unless you silicone it in or seal it somehow

TimberTDI · 01/09/2014, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nastyz

^^ that looks awesome but the only thing id be worried about is stuff building up under the tile unless you silicone it in or seal it somehow

+1

ormet · 01/09/2014, 02:34 AM

I don't buy that fish color thing for a second. Also im a diver, i have been on plenty of reefs where there is no sand to be seen. That "natural sandy ecosystem" look is not fact, its preference. Nothing wrong with having a preference for sand!

I love BB for ease of maintenance but i sometimes really want sand for keeping certain fish such as burrowing wrasses, shrimp/goby pairs and Scooter blennys, thats for sure.

The most important thing when going BB is to provide high flow. If not, the glass bottom will be filled with green algae from my experience.

If believing a white substrate would magically color your fish, do what i did and add white acrylic on the bottom:

wideawake · 01/09/2014, 07:31 AM

Ormet,
What are your methods of directing high flow to the aquarium floor?

syrinx · 01/09/2014, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ormet

I don't buy that fish color thing for a second. Also im a diver, i have been on plenty of reefs where there is no sand to be seen. That "natural sandy ecosystem" look is not fact, its preference. Nothing wrong with having a preference for sand!

I love BB for ease of maintenance but i sometimes really want sand for keeping certain fish such as burrowing wrasses, shrimp/goby pairs and Scooter blennys, thats for sure.

The most important thing when going BB is to provide high flow. If not, the glass bottom will be filled with green algae from my experience.

If believing a white substrate would magically color your fish, do what i did and add white acrylic on the bottom:

Believe what you want- but the results are documentable, and repeatable. As I said- it is "some" fish that exhibit this reaction. You are correct that any white substrate will work well to correct this . Case in point- the gold spot rabbitfish Siganus guttatus, commonly will change color to match its surroundings. When over the sand- it is platinum-when over live rock it mutes, and against a black background it will lose all pattern. On a bare bottom tank, or tank with black gravel, it seldom shows it true coloration. The same is true for most of the silver based signus, ex; virgatus, punctatus,and doliatus. There are several tangs and a couple angels that exhibit this as well. I have no issues whatsoever with BB tanks- and run many. With proper flow there is never detritus on the bottom, and it does assist in having a low nutrient SPS reef. However, your choice not to believe facts, dilutes the veracity of all of your advice.

syrinx · 01/09/2014, 05:49 PM

I will also add this comment-while I have not personally experienced it, there is also room for the thought that some fish may show better coloration without sand. As you said-as a diver, some fish never are against a white background. These fish may well wash out with a white substrate-but I have not documented this.

AcroporAddict · 01/09/2014, 07:20 PM

I have a 465 gallon SPS tank that has been set up bare bottom as new. I originally did this so I could run my Vortech MP60s at full tilt. It got really old always redistributing the substrate after the Vortechs blew it around. One thing I have learned is it is always easier (and cleaner) to add substrate to a BB tank than it is to remove substrate from an existing tank. Old substrate attached to the LR will spill onto he tank bottom for months after you get the main stuff.

I love my BB tank. I have 4x MP60s and a ton of in-tank flow, and the bottom stays spotless, with the only cleaning of the bottom being pulling out pieces of coral that get knocked off by the fish. The bottom is a hybrid PVC/glass bottom, and I like the gray of the PVC bottom more than a bare glass bottom.

Fish coloration seems good, but I can't tell if I have any difference there vs a white sand bottom.

I also believe that nutrients are more manageable this way. For example, I converted my 300 from a substrate tank to a BB type a year or so before moving everything to this 465, and if you understand what ORP is, you will know how to correlate this with the presence of a substrate. My average ORP levels on this tank went up by 100 points after removing the substrate. That tells you a lot about how much organics a substrate even at 1-1.5 inches of depth can hold.

Here are a couple videos of the tank, first from 9/12 shortly after setup, and the second eleven months later, on 8/13.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab2Ib7aFN84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDEHvCqg9Y

01/07/2014, 02:59 AM	#1
solojrbb Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Anderson, South Carolina Posts: 324	Any bare bottom tank fans? Over the years I've had my share of different sorts and sizes of tanks. Some were gravel beds, some were gravel and substrate, some were sustate, and some were sand or sand and substate. How ever as my tanks got older and i would do battle with the nitrates monster and when I built my 180 a friend told me to leave it bare bottom. I thought he was crazy, and to be honest i'm still not crazy about it. How ever I am a heave feeder and do my share of water changes. One thing I did notice, was my nitrates were not even noticeable with this bare bottom. No waste or uneaten food. I have read that fine sand is the way to go, but that is gonna take a pretty penny to put 4-6 inches across the entire bottom of a 180. Now that I do think about it,the gravel and substrate is loose enough to hold waste and rotting food, hence us having to vacuum our gravel. I think I will use the sand method, but for now I am really pleased at how clean my water has been. anyone else use the bare bottom method and have good results? __________________ Silence is Bliss But Duct Tape is Silver Current Tank Info: 29 Gallon Biocube, 180 Gallon, glass, drilled aquarium, 3 Radium MHs, Reef Octopus, forget the right size, the one bigger than this tank, 75 gallon homemade sump/fuge, Tunze wave makers, Tunze auto top-off, Blueline pump, BARE BOTTOM Reef Tank

01/07/2014, 07:39 AM	#2
njdevilsfan Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: texas Posts: 658	switched my 210'from 6 - 10 inch sand bed to bare bottom it's the greatest thing I have ever done to my tank I love the way my zoas look and acans and the rest of my lps look on the bottom __________________ SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES - NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS Current Tank Info: 210lps,75anemone,60frag,20

01/07/2014, 09:29 AM	#8
syrinx Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: champaign Posts: 3,160	Many fish are brighter colored over sand- rabbitfish and tangs in particular. Bare bottom is fine for corals, less so for the other critters. __________________ My views are based on 49years as an aquarist, 25 years as a pro reef consultant, 10 years of owning a LFS, and the results of thousands of customers tanks. But I am always learning.

01/07/2014, 09:31 PM	#14
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Not a BB fan at all. My goal is to try to replicate as closely as possible the natural reef and I have yet to see a BB reef in the wild Plus I keep sand wrasses so I need sand. Just my opinion, but BB tanks always end up just looking messy to me. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

01/08/2014, 06:12 PM	#18
Steveb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: TX Posts: 1,090	You might take a look at the last post in this thread as an option http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...vertine+bottom __________________ Steve My Tanks 50x30 ABS Tub & a 48x24 frag tank at the moment Steve's Reef 265 Build In Progress

01/07/2014, 08:50 AM	#3
bromdad Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 62	I prefer bare bottom. If you don't keep an overload of fish then there is no problem with nitrates. The amount of time you can keep the tank safely after a power failure is extended by multiples. No vacuuming the bed. A refugium will support many of the beneficial creatures found in a sand bed. I have seen reefers with deep sand beds keep a nice aquarium for 7-8 years but once it gets polluted, the entire bed has to be removed.

01/07/2014, 09:01 AM	#4
greaps Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 500	Bare Bottom Fan here. 1. I like the look, purple coralline algae covers bottom. 2. I like heavy flow 3. I like low nutrient environment I have a 6 gallon nano, bare bottom, with only a light, a power-head, and a heater, I do 10-20% water change every 2-3 weeks and have no cyano, clean water. Tank is lightly stocked, 1 clown, and one cleaner shrimp, 1 snail, SPS / birdsnest ( from a 1 inch frag, now 6 inches across) LPS ( frogspawn reproducing / splitting ) and Zoas, spreading out. When I eventually setup a 120-180, depending on what I find used, I will definitely be going bare bottom again. Only I plan to build a low egg crate rack to hold my rock work, keeping the glass bottom even more open to power head current. My number 1 suggestion if going bare bottom is to make sure you have cured rocks ahead of time, you wont believe what rocks shed. And they shed for months.

01/07/2014, 09:08 AM	#5
Politiceaux Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 225	This thread had a unique idea for bare bottom, IMO. I'm going to try it with my upcoming setup. More of a natural look but bare bottom benefits. Win/win. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2291647

01/07/2014, 09:08 AM	#6
ken6217 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 2,179	I had a sandbed in my 90 gallon heavily stocked SPS tank. Had some big angels in there as well. I was doing about 10-15% water changes every two weeks and eventually I got a lot of cyno / slime algae. I could not get rid of it. I decided to syphon out all of my sand over a couple week period. Bang! All of the issues went away. Since then, all of my tanks are bare bottom. I do like the look of a sanded, but I like no algae better. Ken

01/07/2014, 09:09 AM	#7
NastyZ Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Atascadero ca Posts: 664	Love BB I used to have a shallow sand bed but couldn't keep it as clean as I wanted so I made the switch not to mention I love high flow my tank is only a yr old and has been BB for 8 months

01/07/2014, 09:51 AM	#10
wideawake Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Malaysia Posts: 31	I have a hard time keeping my bare bottom tank clean. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong.

01/07/2014, 10:29 AM	#11
ken6217 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 2,179	I don't think it's a matter of right or wrong. It's more of a it is what it is. If it was detritus or uneaten food, you just siphon it out. For green algae, scraping I guess, even though I see that's what you are doing. It may come back again, but if you get it out and keep up with it as you would on the sides and front, it will stay out. What about those Kent Marine or similar scrapers with a short handle for leverage. Maybe get on a stool so that you can get in easily and get at it as a good angle. Ken

01/07/2014, 08:36 PM	#12
wideawake Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Malaysia Posts: 31	I think it's mostly fish poo and dead algae. As I only feed as much as the fish would eat and they are very aggressive when feeding time and est everything I put in. I have 3 big wavemakers to move water around but I still can't get the right placement yet.

01/07/2014, 09:40 PM	#15
wideawake Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Malaysia Posts: 31	Yeah, it looks messy as hell. But mine has a floor plan of 8'x3', not enough dough to buy some good sand. Huhu

01/08/2014, 05:28 PM	#17
NastyZ Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Atascadero ca Posts: 664	My fish look the exact same as they did when I had sand in fact I think my kole tang look it now has a reddish/orange out lining

01/08/2014, 07:03 PM	#19
NastyZ Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Atascadero ca Posts: 664	^^ that looks awesome but the only thing id be worried about is stuff building up under the tile unless you silicone it in or seal it somehow

01/09/2014, 02:34 AM	#21
ormet Just one more frag Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 332	I don't buy that fish color thing for a second. Also im a diver, i have been on plenty of reefs where there is no sand to be seen. That "natural sandy ecosystem" look is not fact, its preference. Nothing wrong with having a preference for sand! I love BB for ease of maintenance but i sometimes really want sand for keeping certain fish such as burrowing wrasses, shrimp/goby pairs and Scooter blennys, thats for sure. The most important thing when going BB is to provide high flow. If not, the glass bottom will be filled with green algae from my experience. If believing a white substrate would magically color your fish, do what i did and add white acrylic on the bottom: __________________ 345g tank in planning. Current Tank Info: 225 litres SPS

01/09/2014, 07:31 AM	#22
wideawake Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Malaysia Posts: 31	Ormet, What are your methods of directing high flow to the aquarium floor?

01/09/2014, 05:49 PM	#24
syrinx Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: champaign Posts: 3,160	I will also add this comment-while I have not personally experienced it, there is also room for the thought that some fish may show better coloration without sand. As you said-as a diver, some fish never are against a white background. These fish may well wash out with a white substrate-but I have not documented this. __________________ My views are based on 49years as an aquarist, 25 years as a pro reef consultant, 10 years of owning a LFS, and the results of thousands of customers tanks. But I am always learning.

01/09/2014, 07:20 PM	#25
AcroporAddict There is no substitute. Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southeast Posts: 2,269	I have a 465 gallon SPS tank that has been set up bare bottom as new. I originally did this so I could run my Vortech MP60s at full tilt. It got really old always redistributing the substrate after the Vortechs blew it around. One thing I have learned is it is always easier (and cleaner) to add substrate to a BB tank than it is to remove substrate from an existing tank. Old substrate attached to the LR will spill onto he tank bottom for months after you get the main stuff. I love my BB tank. I have 4x MP60s and a ton of in-tank flow, and the bottom stays spotless, with the only cleaning of the bottom being pulling out pieces of coral that get knocked off by the fish. The bottom is a hybrid PVC/glass bottom, and I like the gray of the PVC bottom more than a bare glass bottom. Fish coloration seems good, but I can't tell if I have any difference there vs a white sand bottom. I also believe that nutrients are more manageable this way. For example, I converted my 300 from a substrate tank to a BB type a year or so before moving everything to this 465, and if you understand what ORP is, you will know how to correlate this with the presence of a substrate. My average ORP levels on this tank went up by 100 points after removing the substrate. That tells you a lot about how much organics a substrate even at 1-1.5 inches of depth can hold. Here are a couple videos of the tank, first from 9/12 shortly after setup, and the second eleven months later, on 8/13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab2Ib7aFN84 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDEHvCqg9Y