Virgin to salt water

Abbie79 · 01/15/2014, 11:08 PM

I've been keeping fresh water fish for decades, and even had a breeding program attempting to consistently reproduce a quantitative trait in freshwater angels. I had to take a break from fishkeeping for a few years, and now I am looking to set up a nano (or smallish) saltwater tank for the first time ever. I'm ignorant about equipment so I'm hoping you guys can offer me some suggestions for an aquarium kit or package to get me started. Something I can purchase all in one for the main components. Something under 30g but more than 5 that has all the bells and whistles that will familiarize me with the components needed for a saltwater tank. I also need to know what additional equipment will be necessary. Like a salinity measure? What type of substrate? Should I start with live rock? I'm a total newb to this!! I'd like to start with the tank, obviously, and get it cycled, and then I'm hoping to add an antenna goby, and some dwarf seahorses.

Maxxumless · 01/15/2014, 11:21 PM

The Oceanic 29g BioCube HQI is probably as close as it gets to all-in-one system there is, but it has one flaw. The HQI is an excellent light source for keeping just about any coral you'll want, but it runs hot and it's pricey in the long run. It runs around $550 with tank, light, and stand.

Personally, I'd go with dead rock and take my time reef scaping with two part putty and when that's done, add some live sand, saltwater, BIO-Spira, dead shrimp, wait a week, optionally add some pods, few days later add some snails... wait a week, start adding fish and corals.

LR comes with some perks like a range of bacteria and life, but it also comes with algae, some bad hitchhikers, and the LR that doesn't, has had all the life scraped off it.

Abbie79 · 01/15/2014, 11:30 PM

That sounds like a build right up my alley. You wouldn't think there were hitchhikers on live sand or plants in a freshwater build, but there are many! I like the idea of building from dead rock (clean), and then adding the bacteria.
Does the biocube you mentioned have every mechanical component needed to run a saltwater tank?

rfgonzo · 01/15/2014, 11:44 PM

Small Nano can be a PITA for someone new to the hobby, I have been in the hobby for 13 years and personally would not go under a 40gal DT with a 20gal sump. The smaller the tank the harder it is to keep stable and things can and will go bad quick if you don't keep up on it and know how to respond.

Yes, you should use LR or dry rock and cure the rock before you cycle,
To measure your salinity you can get a hydrometer or to be more accurate a refractometer.
As far as substrate it's up to you, you can go BB, Sand, CC or DSB I would do some reading on the pro's and con's of all.
You will also want test kits, Heater, Protein skimmer, lights, ATO,
Good luck to you!!!!

rfgonzo · 01/15/2014, 11:50 PM

Also, What are you planning on keeping? Fish, Soft coral, LPS or SPS? This will also help in determining on lights and filtration.

Whiterabbitrage · 01/15/2014, 11:57 PM

Welcome to saltwater! I agree with Maxxumless, completely, especially about the dead rock. It does not need to be cycled, and it becomes live rock after a few months. It also lets you have complete control over what gets into your tank. No hitch hikers! It's awesome stuff. I agree with rfgonzo about the size though. Reef chemistry can change awfully quickly and a larger tank will give you some wiggle room. But if you have your heart set on it, 29 should be ok if you know you are going to keep on top of things.

You know you can google that brand of cube Maxx mentioned and check it out yourself?

Abbie79 · 01/16/2014, 12:02 AM

I plan on keeping ultimately an antenna goby, and some dwarf seahorses. I'd like to have some lps, but I'm not sure what the compatibility spectrum is for the dwarf seahorses. Basically, I want to build my coral foundation around ultimately keeping seahorses, and goby.

Abbie79 · 01/16/2014, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiterabbitrage

Welcome to saltwater! I agree with Maxxumless, completely, especially about the dead rock. It does not need to be cycled, and it becomes live rock after a few months. It also lets you have complete control over what gets into your tank. No hitch hikers! It's awesome stuff. I agree with rfgonzo about the size though. Reef chemistry can change awfully quickly and a larger tank will give you some wiggle room. But if you have your heart set on it, 29 should be ok if you know you are going to keep on top of things.

You know you can google that brand of cube Maxx mentioned and check it out yourself?

I've googled. The problem is I'm not familiar enough with the equipment needed to know if I'm getting everything I need in a package.

rfgonzo · 01/16/2014, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbie79

I plan on keeping ultimately an antenna goby, and some dwarf seahorses. I'd like to have some lps, but I'm not sure what the compatibility spectrum is for the dwarf seahorses. Basically, I want to build my coral foundation around ultimately keeping seahorses, and goby.

With seahorses you need a low flow tank and most LPS will need a moderate flow

Whiterabbitrage · 01/16/2014, 12:37 AM

Sea horses? Oh that's very different then. The Oceanic HQI has a metal halide and you don't want that with sea horses. They don't need bright light and all that heat. The Coralife bio cube doesn't come with a heater or protein skimmer. So maybe check out the Red Sea Max 130? It has everything. They call it " plug and play" system since its all inclusive. It's a little bigger than you wanted at 34 gallons but it has everything you need except salt and water!

Maxxumless · 01/16/2014, 12:39 AM

rfgonzo is correct, bigger is usually better, but this particular tank has several perks. The first is, it's roomy in the back. An auto-top-off (JBJ) can be added and a reservoir placed in the stand that will last the entire week. This tank is not complete, though many local fish shops will sell this particular tank as a complete kit. If you don't want to go with LPS and just do the sea horse thing, then the regular BioCube is fine for about $200 less. Things I'd recommend you get with it would be...

JBJ ATO (5g jug, Aqualifter Pump w/ piping)
Eheim Heater
10-15LB's of dead rock
2 part epoxy putty
50g Reef Crystals Sea Salt
Refractometer
API Saltwater Master Test Kit
Digital Thermometer
Magnet Algae Cleaner (not sure which is best for Oceanic)
Oceanic Biocube 29 Media Basket by inTank
Tunze Nano DOC Protein Skimmer 9002
LED Moonlight

As you see the list gets pretty long. Regardless of which tank you choose, there will be a lot that isn't included. I didn't add a powerhead b/c you mentioned sea horses. I'd also look into Seachem Matrix for it's superior ability vs LR in biological filtration - as a bonus, it doesn't crumble away in the back of your tank like live rock would.

igot2gats · 01/16/2014, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxxumless

Personally, I'd go with dead rock and take my time reef scaping with two part putty and when that's done, add some live sand, saltwater, BIO-Spira, dead shrimp, wait a week, optionally add some pods, few days later add some snails... wait a week, start adding fish and corals.

LR comes with some perks like a range of bacteria and life, but it also comes with algae, some bad hitchhikers, and the LR that doesn't, has had all the life scraped off it.

Not only this, but you really don't have the time to come up with ideas for aquascaping when you get live rock.

You can still aquascape live rock, but it just has to be in the water.

On the other hand with dead rock - you have all the time you need to play around with it out of the water to create the scape you want.

Just something to think about. It just just comes down to preference.

I would also suggest a Biocube if you're going to go for a Nano tank. They're pretty much 'plug n play' systems.

Ikserk · 01/16/2014, 09:56 AM

on the seahorses, most species also live in cooler waters. most sea horse tanks are maintained @ 74 degrees Fahrenheit. It's usually recommended that a reef tank be somewhere in the 78-80 range. As such, most seahorses are kept in a species tank with low light, 74F, low flow and lots of macro algae and other saltwater plants to which the seahorses can anchor themselves

FTDelta · 01/16/2014, 09:59 AM

IMO, sea horses are best left for those with experience, not for beginner. I'd wait til you get some experience before venturing into seahorses due to their delicate feeding requirements.

01/15/2014, 11:08 PM	#1
Abbie79 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 4	Virgin to salt water I've been keeping fresh water fish for decades, and even had a breeding program attempting to consistently reproduce a quantitative trait in freshwater angels. I had to take a break from fishkeeping for a few years, and now I am looking to set up a nano (or smallish) saltwater tank for the first time ever. I'm ignorant about equipment so I'm hoping you guys can offer me some suggestions for an aquarium kit or package to get me started. Something I can purchase all in one for the main components. Something under 30g but more than 5 that has all the bells and whistles that will familiarize me with the components needed for a saltwater tank. I also need to know what additional equipment will be necessary. Like a salinity measure? What type of substrate? Should I start with live rock? I'm a total newb to this!! I'd like to start with the tank, obviously, and get it cycled, and then I'm hoping to add an antenna goby, and some dwarf seahorses.

01/15/2014, 11:57 PM	#6
Whiterabbitrage Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,338 Blog Entries: 1	Welcome to saltwater! I agree with Maxxumless, completely, especially about the dead rock. It does not need to be cycled, and it becomes live rock after a few months. It also lets you have complete control over what gets into your tank. No hitch hikers! It's awesome stuff. I agree with rfgonzo about the size though. Reef chemistry can change awfully quickly and a larger tank will give you some wiggle room. But if you have your heart set on it, 29 should be ok if you know you are going to keep on top of things. You know you can google that brand of cube Maxx mentioned and check it out yourself? __________________ ~Morgan Current Tank Info: 150 gall, 30 gall sump; 30 gall refugium

01/16/2014, 12:37 AM	#10
Whiterabbitrage Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,338 Blog Entries: 1	Sea horses? Oh that's very different then. The Oceanic HQI has a metal halide and you don't want that with sea horses. They don't need bright light and all that heat. The Coralife bio cube doesn't come with a heater or protein skimmer. So maybe check out the Red Sea Max 130? It has everything. They call it " plug and play" system since its all inclusive. It's a little bigger than you wanted at 34 gallons but it has everything you need except salt and water! __________________ ~Morgan Current Tank Info: 150 gall, 30 gall sump; 30 gall refugium

01/15/2014, 11:21 PM	#2
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	The Oceanic 29g BioCube HQI is probably as close as it gets to all-in-one system there is, but it has one flaw. The HQI is an excellent light source for keeping just about any coral you'll want, but it runs hot and it's pricey in the long run. It runs around $550 with tank, light, and stand. Personally, I'd go with dead rock and take my time reef scaping with two part putty and when that's done, add some live sand, saltwater, BIO-Spira, dead shrimp, wait a week, optionally add some pods, few days later add some snails... wait a week, start adding fish and corals. LR comes with some perks like a range of bacteria and life, but it also comes with algae, some bad hitchhikers, and the LR that doesn't, has had all the life scraped off it.

01/15/2014, 11:30 PM	#3
Abbie79 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 4	That sounds like a build right up my alley. You wouldn't think there were hitchhikers on live sand or plants in a freshwater build, but there are many! I like the idea of building from dead rock (clean), and then adding the bacteria. Does the biocube you mentioned have every mechanical component needed to run a saltwater tank?

01/15/2014, 11:44 PM	#4
rfgonzo Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,280	Small Nano can be a PITA for someone new to the hobby, I have been in the hobby for 13 years and personally would not go under a 40gal DT with a 20gal sump. The smaller the tank the harder it is to keep stable and things can and will go bad quick if you don't keep up on it and know how to respond. Yes, you should use LR or dry rock and cure the rock before you cycle, To measure your salinity you can get a hydrometer or to be more accurate a refractometer. As far as substrate it's up to you, you can go BB, Sand, CC or DSB I would do some reading on the pro's and con's of all. You will also want test kits, Heater, Protein skimmer, lights, ATO, Good luck to you!!!!

01/15/2014, 11:50 PM	#5
rfgonzo Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,280	Also, What are you planning on keeping? Fish, Soft coral, LPS or SPS? This will also help in determining on lights and filtration.

01/16/2014, 12:02 AM	#7
Abbie79 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 4	I plan on keeping ultimately an antenna goby, and some dwarf seahorses. I'd like to have some lps, but I'm not sure what the compatibility spectrum is for the dwarf seahorses. Basically, I want to build my coral foundation around ultimately keeping seahorses, and goby.

01/16/2014, 12:39 AM	#11
Maxxumless To the Max... Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,364	rfgonzo is correct, bigger is usually better, but this particular tank has several perks. The first is, it's roomy in the back. An auto-top-off (JBJ) can be added and a reservoir placed in the stand that will last the entire week. This tank is not complete, though many local fish shops will sell this particular tank as a complete kit. If you don't want to go with LPS and just do the sea horse thing, then the regular BioCube is fine for about $200 less. Things I'd recommend you get with it would be... JBJ ATO (5g jug, Aqualifter Pump w/ piping) Eheim Heater 10-15LB's of dead rock 2 part epoxy putty 50g Reef Crystals Sea Salt Refractometer API Saltwater Master Test Kit Digital Thermometer Magnet Algae Cleaner (not sure which is best for Oceanic) Oceanic Biocube 29 Media Basket by inTank Tunze Nano DOC Protein Skimmer 9002 LED Moonlight As you see the list gets pretty long. Regardless of which tank you choose, there will be a lot that isn't included. I didn't add a powerhead b/c you mentioned sea horses. I'd also look into Seachem Matrix for it's superior ability vs LR in biological filtration - as a bonus, it doesn't crumble away in the back of your tank like live rock would.

01/16/2014, 09:56 AM	#13
Ikserk Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 72	on the seahorses, most species also live in cooler waters. most sea horse tanks are maintained @ 74 degrees Fahrenheit. It's usually recommended that a reef tank be somewhere in the 78-80 range. As such, most seahorses are kept in a species tank with low light, 74F, low flow and lots of macro algae and other saltwater plants to which the seahorses can anchor themselves

01/16/2014, 09:59 AM	#14
FTDelta Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central NY Posts: 1,124	IMO, sea horses are best left for those with experience, not for beginner. I'd wait til you get some experience before venturing into seahorses due to their delicate feeding requirements.