New tank setup questions with "fully cured" live rock from lfs

shermanator · 02/26/2014, 12:55 PM

Hi, I'm new here. My wife and I are setting up our first ever marine tank. I've read Martin Moe's handbook, read the Paletta book about setting up from scratch, most all of the threads I could find here on setting up, and talked to my lfs people extensive (who seem decent but not always consistent with the books and forum). And I still have some questions...

We have a 55 gal tank with AquaClear 70, AquaC Remora Pro HOB skimmer (no sump). I'm going to add a HOB refugium next month (to spread out all the initial expenses).

After a month of planning, I bought 45 lbs of live rock from the lfs and RO water last week. They said the rock was fully cured and it spent about 45 minutes out of water. I put the rock into the tank with the heater, filter, powerhead, and skimmer going. It's still bear bottom, but I'm planning a shallow sand bed.

It's now been 7 days and I have seen no ammonia spike (I've measured every day), which I know is possible when using cured live rock. I did not add a raw shrimp -- should I do this to make sure there is a cycle? Nitrite has also been 0 daily. However, over the past few days, the nitrate has been increasing and is now ~15 ppm. I'm going to do a 20% water change this weekend.

Question 1: I'm planning on adding the substrate this weekend as well. Or should I wait? I assume the sand bed will help lower nitrate?

Question 2: I already have some aiptasia growing, when can I add some peppermint shrimp to kill them?

Question 3: My lfs says with no ammonia I can add a couple clowns, but I'm hesitant and don't want to kill or stress the poor things. They said if they died they would replace them, but I still don't like the idea of adding them yet. When do I know it's safe when using already cured live rock that I have not seen cycle?

Thanks and sorry for the long post. I'll certainly have other questions, and we really appreciate the help.

Thanks,
Matt

bigdawg22164 · 02/26/2014, 01:01 PM

Dont add any live stock until alll water parameters are good. For aptasia use kalk paste.

ReeferBill · 02/26/2014, 01:05 PM

It takes time,keep reading to gain the knowledge and learn from other peoples mistakes.

Sk8r · 02/26/2014, 01:15 PM

We also have (free) a list of articles on problems.
As a rule, expect a roughly 4 week cycle with all live rock and dry sand.

Then let hermits and snails patrol your newly cycled tanks 4 weeks by themselves.

Meanwhile, quarantine your first fish 4 weeks.

Corals can go in as the fish does, granted you've taken measures (Autotopoff and test kits and supplement supplies and adequate lighting) to take care of them. If you add stony coral you should start tests and supplements from the beginning.

As a rule, one at a time. One fish. One small coral. start next fish in quarantine---add him 4 weeks later. Do that and you should have little trouble.

mpeaden2 · 02/26/2014, 02:52 PM

You should try to find out how mature the live rock is. Fully mature live rock (loaded with pods ect..) you won't see much of a cycle if any to be concerned about. I wouldn't count on the shrimp to eliminate you're aptasia prob. No need to add anything dead to create ammonia. Add hardy fish slowly and keep monitoring params. Good luck!

julie180 · 02/26/2014, 03:12 PM

Go ahead and add some raw shrimp. This will get your cycle started.
Good call on not adding livestock yet. You need to see a cycle happen before adding them.
As for sand, go ahead an add it now, its going to cloud up the water for a little while. New sand bed will do little for nitrate reduction.
Since you are just starting, take out the rock with aptasia and break off the piece they are on or use Kalk. No peppermint shrimp until your done with cycle.

shermanator · 02/26/2014, 03:20 PM

Thanks for all of the help!

When I add the sand, should I turn off the filter and skimmer (and powerhead)? I've read that there is wear on the motor/blades with the suspended particulates. But I've also read (I think), that they should be left on. If it matters, I'll be adding CaribSea Aragamax Aragonite as the substrate (which I have washed 2x).

Thanks again.

mpeaden2 · 02/26/2014, 03:23 PM

Yes! Please turn off everything! Or you will have a mess that will take a lot of time to settle. After a day or so turn back on

mpeaden2 · 02/26/2014, 03:24 PM

Hope that wasn't live sand u washed

shermanator · 02/26/2014, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpeaden2

Hope that wasn't live sand u washed

No, not live sand. But I washed it in saltwater which I assume would be OK for live sand? Speaking of live sand, it seems to be a topic of debate, but is it worth adding some? I probably need more substrate anyhow.

mpeaden2 · 02/26/2014, 03:28 PM

Depends on how patient you are. Live sand cuts out a lot of 'waiting time' I always have spent the extra on live sand but by no means is it necessary

mpeaden2 · 02/26/2014, 03:31 PM

IMHO that fuge ur talking about is completely unnecessary as well. Unless u use it for cheato or some other macro algae. Ur live rock and SB will be all u need

mpeaden2 · 02/26/2014, 03:32 PM

Be sure to skim like there's no tomorrow

chicagoreefer20 · 02/26/2014, 03:40 PM

Live sand seems moot if you already have high quality live rock.

I'd suggest "feeding" the tank with some fish food - cycling is the process of waiting for enough beneficial bacteria to populate your tank to handle the bioload. Since your bioload is near zero your bacteria on the live rock is probably more than suffcient to wipe out any decay from the rock. Feeding the tank a little will simulate having some livestock - measure how fast it takes for the ammonia to be processed. Or throw in a piece of raw shrimp

shermanator · 02/26/2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpeaden2

IMHO that fuge ur talking about is completely unnecessary as well. Unless u use it for cheato or some other macro algae. Ur live rock and SB will be all u need

I was going to use it for macro algae and maybe a deep sand bed in there. I also wanted to add more (ugly/cheap) live rock to it (because my wife doesn't want more rock in the main tank, but it's slightly under 1 lb per gallon right now).

I was going to get the large AquaFuge. My only concern was that it's not that cheap for it's smallish size (5-6 gallons for the large) so maybe it really isn't worth it?

shermanator · 02/26/2014, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagoreefer20

Live sand seems moot if you already have high quality live rock.

I'd suggest "feeding" the tank with some fish food - cycling is the process of waiting for enough beneficial bacteria to populate your tank to handle the bioload. Since your bioload is near zero your bacteria on the live rock is probably more than suffcient to wipe out any decay from the rock. Feeding the tank a little will simulate having some livestock - measure how fast it takes for the ammonia to be processed. Or throw in a piece of raw shrimp

Thanks. I'm going to do the shrimp. Seems like fun to watch it decay (beats watching the aiptasia grow -- most of that is on one small rock, so I think I'll chuck it or do a freshwater rinse).

EricBuzz · 02/26/2014, 06:22 PM

HOB fuge is really not worth it. All you will be doing is creating a place for pods to grow, but I agree that your live rock should handle that for you.

Save the money...

02/26/2014, 12:55 PM	#1
shermanator Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 854	New tank setup questions with "fully cured" live rock from lfs Hi, I'm new here. My wife and I are setting up our first ever marine tank. I've read Martin Moe's handbook, read the Paletta book about setting up from scratch, most all of the threads I could find here on setting up, and talked to my lfs people extensive (who seem decent but not always consistent with the books and forum). And I still have some questions... We have a 55 gal tank with AquaClear 70, AquaC Remora Pro HOB skimmer (no sump). I'm going to add a HOB refugium next month (to spread out all the initial expenses). After a month of planning, I bought 45 lbs of live rock from the lfs and RO water last week. They said the rock was fully cured and it spent about 45 minutes out of water. I put the rock into the tank with the heater, filter, powerhead, and skimmer going. It's still bear bottom, but I'm planning a shallow sand bed. It's now been 7 days and I have seen no ammonia spike (I've measured every day), which I know is possible when using cured live rock. I did not add a raw shrimp -- should I do this to make sure there is a cycle? Nitrite has also been 0 daily. However, over the past few days, the nitrate has been increasing and is now ~15 ppm. I'm going to do a 20% water change this weekend. Question 1: I'm planning on adding the substrate this weekend as well. Or should I wait? I assume the sand bed will help lower nitrate? Question 2: I already have some aiptasia growing, when can I add some peppermint shrimp to kill them? Question 3: My lfs says with no ammonia I can add a couple clowns, but I'm hesitant and don't want to kill or stress the poor things. They said if they died they would replace them, but I still don't like the idea of adding them yet. When do I know it's safe when using already cured live rock that I have not seen cycle? Thanks and sorry for the long post. I'll certainly have other questions, and we really appreciate the help. Thanks, Matt

02/26/2014, 01:05 PM	#3
ReeferBill Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,906	It takes time,keep reading to gain the knowledge and learn from other peoples mistakes. __________________ I never realized I had to be a Chemist and a Marine Biologist to maintain a Reef Aquarium!

02/26/2014, 01:15 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	We also have (free) a list of articles on problems. As a rule, expect a roughly 4 week cycle with all live rock and dry sand. Then let hermits and snails patrol your newly cycled tanks 4 weeks by themselves. Meanwhile, quarantine your first fish 4 weeks. Corals can go in as the fish does, granted you've taken measures (Autotopoff and test kits and supplement supplies and adequate lighting) to take care of them. If you add stony coral you should start tests and supplements from the beginning. As a rule, one at a time. One fish. One small coral. start next fish in quarantine---add him 4 weeks later. Do that and you should have little trouble. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/26/2014, 02:52 PM	#5
mpeaden2 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 70	You should try to find out how mature the live rock is. Fully mature live rock (loaded with pods ect..) you won't see much of a cycle if any to be concerned about. I wouldn't count on the shrimp to eliminate you're aptasia prob. No need to add anything dead to create ammonia. Add hardy fish slowly and keep monitoring params. Good luck! __________________ 90 gal. \|29 gal sump\|2 x AI SOL Blue\|Apex Neptune\|2 x Sicce Power Heads\|Reef Octopus 150\|MagDrive 12

02/26/2014, 03:23 PM	#8
mpeaden2 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 70	Yes! Please turn off everything! Or you will have a mess that will take a lot of time to settle. After a day or so turn back on __________________ 90 gal. \|29 gal sump\|2 x AI SOL Blue\|Apex Neptune\|2 x Sicce Power Heads\|Reef Octopus 150\|MagDrive 12

02/26/2014, 01:01 PM	#2
bigdawg22164 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 101	Dont add any live stock until alll water parameters are good. For aptasia use kalk paste.

02/26/2014, 03:12 PM	#6
julie180 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Raymore, MO Posts: 2,556	Go ahead and add some raw shrimp. This will get your cycle started. Good call on not adding livestock yet. You need to see a cycle happen before adding them. As for sand, go ahead an add it now, its going to cloud up the water for a little while. New sand bed will do little for nitrate reduction. Since you are just starting, take out the rock with aptasia and break off the piece they are on or use Kalk. No peppermint shrimp until your done with cycle.

02/26/2014, 03:20 PM	#7
shermanator Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 854	Thanks for all of the help! When I add the sand, should I turn off the filter and skimmer (and powerhead)? I've read that there is wear on the motor/blades with the suspended particulates. But I've also read (I think), that they should be left on. If it matters, I'll be adding CaribSea Aragamax Aragonite as the substrate (which I have washed 2x). Thanks again.

02/26/2014, 03:24 PM	#9
mpeaden2 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 70	Hope that wasn't live sand u washed __________________ 90 gal. \|29 gal sump\|2 x AI SOL Blue\|Apex Neptune\|2 x Sicce Power Heads\|Reef Octopus 150\|MagDrive 12

02/26/2014, 03:28 PM	#11
mpeaden2 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 70	Depends on how patient you are. Live sand cuts out a lot of 'waiting time' I always have spent the extra on live sand but by no means is it necessary __________________ 90 gal. \|29 gal sump\|2 x AI SOL Blue\|Apex Neptune\|2 x Sicce Power Heads\|Reef Octopus 150\|MagDrive 12

02/26/2014, 03:31 PM	#12
mpeaden2 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 70	IMHO that fuge ur talking about is completely unnecessary as well. Unless u use it for cheato or some other macro algae. Ur live rock and SB will be all u need __________________ 90 gal. \|29 gal sump\|2 x AI SOL Blue\|Apex Neptune\|2 x Sicce Power Heads\|Reef Octopus 150\|MagDrive 12

02/26/2014, 03:32 PM	#13
mpeaden2 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 70	Be sure to skim like there's no tomorrow __________________ 90 gal. \|29 gal sump\|2 x AI SOL Blue\|Apex Neptune\|2 x Sicce Power Heads\|Reef Octopus 150\|MagDrive 12

02/26/2014, 03:40 PM	#14
chicagoreefer20 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 199	Live sand seems moot if you already have high quality live rock. I'd suggest "feeding" the tank with some fish food - cycling is the process of waiting for enough beneficial bacteria to populate your tank to handle the bioload. Since your bioload is near zero your bacteria on the live rock is probably more than suffcient to wipe out any decay from the rock. Feeding the tank a little will simulate having some livestock - measure how fast it takes for the ammonia to be processed. Or throw in a piece of raw shrimp

02/26/2014, 06:22 PM	#17
EricBuzz Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Saddle Brook, NJ Posts: 53	HOB fuge is really not worth it. All you will be doing is creating a place for pods to grow, but I agree that your live rock should handle that for you. Save the money...