Cloudy Water in Relatively New Tank

[Scott07]

Hi Everyone,

Hoping someone can put my mind at rest here.... I'll try and keep it brief, but feel free to ask questions and I'll respond as quickly as I can.

Background: 20 gallon Long tank, is about 4.5-5 months old at this point. Running Chemi Pure (not elite) from the beginning, PhosGuard (added about 3 weeks ago), a small skimmer (producing dark, thick, brownish skimmate) all in an AquaClear 110 HOB (about 2/3 is filter media and foam, and other 1/3 holds the skimmer). Also have an AquaClear 70 mod'd into a fuge indipendently lit and containing chaeto and some live rock rubble.

Problem: I seem to be in a cycle over the last month or so where I will do a water change (do these weekly w/ reef crystals and RODI), the water will be clear after the water change... and then about 2-3 days later will start to become cloudy. Cloudiness is white in color... and not scarry bad yet (i've seen a lot worse), but is very noticable when looking from end to end (the long way) through the tank/water column. I'm leaning towards bacterial bloom... as they seem to happen like clockwork 2-3 days after I do a water change (changing about 3-4 gallons per week).

Questions:
-why am I experiencing this cloudiness weekly? Are water changes just helping clear up otherwise cloudy water? Or is a bacterial bloom occurring when I'm adding fresh salt water?
-Is this dangerous to inhabitants? (2 snowlake clowns)
-Should I attempt to correct this by doing more, or fewer water changes? Or let it pass on its own?

What's changed recently:
-addition of PhosGuard about 3 weeks ago (did not initially make water cloudy)
-making my own RODI water and mixing w/ reef crystals. Was previously buying from LFS.. which I am told was also using reef crystals.

Parameters:
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-0 (API test kit... so all I can be sure of is under 5ppm)
Phosphate-0.04
Ph-8.2
Calcium-about 440
Mg-about 1280
Carbonate Hardness-8-9


Well... looks like i did NOT succeed in keeping it brief... I appologize for that. Any theories, or just simple re-assurance (if warranted) is greatly greatly appreciated!!

[saltyair]

A few things off hand
could be a bacterial bloom - not uncommon in new set-ups. Are you dosing or start with an additive? How much are you feeding perday? You might also have to change out your carbon/chemipure. Are you using a reactor? or is the carbon in a high flow area?

I would push your WC per week @ 5 gal

[Scott07]

Originally Posted by saltyair

A few things off hand
could be a bacterial bloom - not uncommon in new set-ups. Are you dosing or start with an additive? How much are you feeding perday? You might also have to change out your carbon/chemipure. Are you using a reactor? or is the carbon in a high flow area?

I would push your WC per week @ 5 gal

Thanks for the response!! I am dosing 2-part. Using Seachem Reef Complete for calc. and mg., and Aqua Vitro (seachem's premium line ohhh ahhh lol) Eight.Four for alk/ph.

I am feeding twice per day... pellets when I get home from work, or around noon if gf is off work that day, and pe mysis around dinner time... alternating daily between fresh garlic, and selcon w/ frozen food (only juse 3 or 4 drops on the frozen).

Chemipure was changed out... hmmm at the same time as the PhosGuard was added... so 3 weeks ago, and is in the Aquaclear110, so i've got to believe it's getting plenty of flow through it.

I am not using a reactor... as I've only been in the hobby about a year.. and frankly the idea of a reactor is still a little scarry lol.

I'll go ahead and up my w/c volume this weekend. Let me know if there's any other info you'd like!

[saltyair]

i would cut down on the frozen food to once or twice a week - since you only have 2 clowns. Do you have a cuc?
Do you have corals? sps/lps?

[Scott07]

Originally Posted by saltyair

i would cut down on the frozen food to once or twice a week - since you only have 2 clowns. Do you have a cuc?
Do you have corals? sps/lps?

Ok, can do on the frozen food. That probably makes it easier on me too. CUC consists of approx. 15 blue leg hermits, maybe 5 or 6 astrea snails, 2 or 3 trochus snails, and about 5 or 6 cerith snails.

Corals consist of mostly softies, LPS, mushrooms, etc... however i do have a few frags of some Acros. and all future additions will be SPS.

[Fishyoga]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but didn't want to start a new one in case my problem is relevant...
Tank is 10g, no reef life yet, just 5 asst snails and one wrasse (yes I know, too big for that small a tank). For the past week, I have had a cloudiness, persisting through water changes. I use reef crystals (bought a pail hoping to introduce a frag or two in the coming months), and keep the SG at 1.022, temp about 80. The tank is all stock equipment form a Marineland 10g kit, so I don't know what to say about the lighting or filter, other than I keep to the filter change guidelines of every two weeks.
The cloudiness is like a mist- it's not just 'generally cloudy' but you can actually see it swirling in the tank like a very fine mist (?).
Water Chemistry:
pH- 8.0
NH4- .025 or less
NO2- 0
NO3- 0
PO4- .025 or less
alk - 10 sometimes a hair more
Ca - 450
Mg - 1350
Is there anything I'm missing from this?

Edit: As a side not, my wrasse seems to be doing fine, swimming about, eating when I feed him. The snails seem a bit slow though...

[Scott07]

Originally Posted by Fishyoga

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but didn't want to start a new one in case my problem is relevant...
Tank is 10g, no reef life yet, just 5 asst snails and one wrasse (yes I know, too big for that small a tank). For the past week, I have had a cloudiness, persisting through water changes. I use reef crystals (bought a pail hoping to introduce a frag or two in the coming months), and keep the SG at 1.022, temp about 80. The tank is all stock equipment form a Marineland 10g kit, so I don't know what to say about the lighting or filter, other than I keep to the filter change guidelines of every two weeks.
The cloudiness is like a mist- it's not just 'generally cloudy' but you can actually see it swirling in the tank like a very fine mist (?).
Water Chemistry:
pH- 8.0
NH4- .025 or less
NO2- 0
NO3- 0
PO4- .025 or less
alk - 10 sometimes a hair more
Ca - 450
Mg - 1350
Is there anything I'm missing from this?

Edit: As a side not, my wrasse seems to be doing fine, swimming about, eating when I feed him. The snails seem a bit slow though...

Just giving my thoughts here.... don't think I can solve your problem... as I obviously have the same or similar and would've already solved it myself if I could lol. However, I do notice the one similarity between our two issues is the salt mix. I had thought about this before... did some research on "bad batches"... and ultimately ruled it out. What are the odds the first bucket of salt I would buy would be the problem? Especially when it's so widely used.

Another possibility I've been considering is that something in the salt mix doesn't get along or 'play nice' with something i'm dosing. No clue if this is even possible... but I do dose a small amt. of my alk/ph solution almost daily (about a 10 gal. dosage in roughly 22 or 23 gal. of water).. in order to keep my Carbonate Hardness up. I find that if I neglect to do this... it'll be on the low side of 8 within a day or two... so I like to keep it closer to the high 8 low 9 range.

Do you dose anything currently? If so what brand/product are you using? It would be nice to either rule out... or put more weight on another possibility. I do very much get the feeling that this will pass.... and all life in the tank seems to be thriving. I'd just like to understand what's going on.... and if it's related to anything I'm doing...

[Berje]

Originally Posted by Fishyoga

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but didn't want to start a new one in case my problem is relevant...
Tank is 10g, no reef life yet, just 5 asst snails and one wrasse (yes I know, too big for that small a tank). For the past week, I have had a cloudiness, persisting through water changes. I use reef crystals (bought a pail hoping to introduce a frag or two in the coming months), and keep the SG at 1.022, temp about 80. The tank is all stock equipment form a Marineland 10g kit, so I don't know what to say about the lighting or filter, other than I keep to the filter change guidelines of every two weeks.
The cloudiness is like a mist- it's not just 'generally cloudy' but you can actually see it swirling in the tank like a very fine mist (?).
Water Chemistry:
pH- 8.0
NH4- .025 or less
NO2- 0
NO3- 0
PO4- .025 or less
alk - 10 sometimes a hair more
Ca - 450
Mg - 1350
Is there anything I'm missing from this?

Edit: As a side not, my wrasse seems to be doing fine, swimming about, eating when I feed him. The snails seem a bit slow though...

Sometimes if your salt gets moisture in it before being mixed it will turn the water cloudy.

[Fishyoga]

Originally Posted by Scott07

I had thought about this before... did some research on "bad batches"... and ultimately ruled it out. What are the odds the first bucket of salt I would buy would be the problem?

Do you dose anything currently? I'd just like to understand what's going on.... and if it's related to anything I'm doing...

I had the cloudy when I used up my last salt (was in a box), the next batch came from a pail I just bought.
I don't actually dose anything yet, as I have no corals in, though I do have a single button polyp. now that I think about, he has been closed up the last 2 days.
As I said, the weirdest part is that you can see it swirl like a mist in the water.

[bertoni]

SG at 1.022 is very low for a reef tank. The canonical ocean average is around 1.0264. I'd probably raise the SG over a week or so, personally, but that might not be the issue.

[Fishyoga]

^^ Agreed on the SG, but as I only have the one Button Polyp, I didn't think it would be that much a problem. Would it be better to keep a higher salinity just because? I do know there is a lot of opinion around salt concentration.

[bertoni]

There's no evidence that any organism from the ocean is going to do better with a low SG like that. Some brackish water animals will, and animals from the Red Sea might be better off with an even higher SG, but 1.0264 is what I would target.

[Scott07]

Update: came home and checked my parameters. Calcium is at 440, carbonate hardness 8, magnesium 1000. My new hypothesis is that low Mg is causing imbalance, and some sort of precipitation or inability to hold calcium, alk, or something else in solution.

Does this make sense to anyone else? Am I headed down the right path here? I will likely go out and purchase a Mg supplement tomorrow to try and correct the imbalance.

[bertoni]

I'd double-check the magnesium result, but it is a bit low. Upping the level to 1275 ppm or so might help the cloudiness, but I wouldn't guarantee that.

[saltyair]

Low mag would not create cloudy water. Some alk products do cloudy the water for a short time.
Are u using reef salt?
But I do think if you stop feeding frozen food everyday and just feed a few pellet s per day your tank will clear up.
You might also want to increase flow

Originally Posted by Scott07

Update: came home and checked my parameters. Calcium is at 440, carbonate hardness 8, magnesium 1000. My new hypothesis is that low Mg is causing imbalance, and some sort of precipitation or inability to hold calcium, alk, or something else in solution.

Does this make sense to anyone else? Am I headed down the right path here? I will likely go out and purchase a Mg supplement tomorrow to try and correct the imbalance.

[pscott99]

Too much food for two clowns. I would feed them every other day.

[Scott07]

Ok, I will try cutting back on frozen food to every other day or so. I've tried to be cautious to avoid the typical mistake of over feeding as a lot of ppl seem to want to do. One cube of pe mysis usually lasts 4 or 5 days, but I will definitely give cutting back on frozen a shot.

Yes, I am using reef crystals mixed to 1.024 as my target salinity, but will likely raise this to 1.025 with water change this weekend.

The cloudiness is better today, but still not crystal clear. Some of my concern with cutting back on frozen is that my peppermint shrimp seems to like to try and steal food from my duncan head when there isn't much to scrounge... Or maybe he's just lazy lol. Regardless, I value the opinions here and will try cutting back.

Thank you all for the replies and the help! I'll let you know how it goes.

[pscott99]

My clowns love small pellets. I alternate to feed less frozen also. Just a point also i was talking about a full small cube as a feeding. You sound like you are feeding "part" cubes somehow ??