cost to opperate MH Vs LED

[john08007]

Has anyone done any research on the cost savings of an LED over a MH? I have a 24'x24"x30" Deep tank, I was planning on using my 2 175W Metal halides for lighting that I have from a previous tank . Now that I am thinking about it I may be better with 1 or 2 Kessil LED lamps. I know my Metal halide ballasts buzz pretty good and I am thinking that the energy savings of the Kessil's will pay for themselves in no time. Not to mention the heat that is added to the tank from the MH's, I also have an apex controller that would work with the Kessil's

[firebirdude]

Jesus Christ. Are we really about to do this again?

[ganjero]

Find the KWH in you area and use this calculator http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/tank-electrical

Doing it myself with the standard 12 cents per KWH 2 175w ran 8hrs day will cost $85.17 a year and $10.22 a month. Two Kessil (350 or 360) running at 90w each will cost $43.8 a year and $5.26 a moth.

[hoaglanddiver]

are you sure 175s will get you "punch" at the bottom? would think you would need really good reflectors (lumenmax elite?).. I have a 31" deep and ran 2x250w MH... I'm now running radion xr30w pro x 2. MHs at 250w each at 10hr/day at 30 days/mo at 10.5 cents/kWh, I was running, $15.75/mo in lighting. however, now running $11.34/mo w/ LED.. lastly, w/ MH you have bulb replacement at least one time a yr -- more like 1.25 times per yr.. each bulb $80 plus shipping. no bulb replace w/ LED.

[solarwrx]

im running led's and now switching back to hqi's dont expect any major growth with sps.

leds do work i have had my for 4 months but littleto no growth at all on lps

if i have to replace bulbs once a year at 30.00 a year x2 60.00 and 70.00 more a year in energy

new hqi light was 300.00 off ebay 3 year would cost 400.00 about the same cost as a hi end led set up that who knows if it still puts out a full spectrum in 3 years of constant use.

also in 3 years of growth compared to led will be worth it,

im currently running d120s 90 degree optic full spectrum at 50%

one trip to my lfs i spend 200.00 a pop, why even concern with a 10.00 a month diff in electric bills whene you your lights are proven at works

[AquaTDV]

You will have no problem using 175 as long as you go with the 15k iwasaki bulbs. I ran 3-175s with luminarc mini reflectors for years over a 240 (8'x2'x2'). I had amazing growth with decent color. You might want some t5s or leds to suppliment color. Also I wouldn't count on these running at 175watts my kill-a-watt meter registered 195watts on Icecap ballasts both new and old style. I know this is contrary to what Sanjay wrote in Advanced Aquarist.

[alton]

Sell the 175w's and buy 1 - 250w lumen bright pendant mini. I would get it with the adjustable 250w to 400w ballast just incase you want to go to 400w. 30" depth is going to be a problem.

[ganjero]

Don't choose LEDs over MH based on just savings, sometimes they are negligible. Many are changing their LEDs fixture constantly to another LEDs fixture or technology for different reasons, making it even more expensive.

LEDs seem to be like the cell phone or computers of this hobby, every six months there is something apparently better that for whatever reason you "must" get.

[atreis]

If your happy with your lighting (LED, MH, T5, whatever) then there's no need to replace it regardless of whether or not there's a new version that's better than what was available when you bought yours. The same is true for phones, computers, etc...

As stated in the several other threads on this subject, cost of operating MH should also include the increased cost for running the chiller more, and during the summer (as applicable - it's not applicable for everyone) of running the household AC more to remove the heat from both the MH and the chiller from the home.

[john08007]

I was thinking that a 175w mh used more than 175watts, I thought the ballast's output was 175 watts then I needed to add in all the waste from heat. I also didnt realise that the corals wont grow as much with the led's. A savings of $10/month is definitely not worth the loss in growth. I do also hwve an ice cap 430 or 660 ballast I was going to use with some compact fluorescents if im not happy with the color.

[alton]

If your ballast are 95% efficient 175/.95=184w

[pufferpoison]

Originally Posted by firebirdude

jesus christ. Are we really about to do this again?

+1

[shifty51008]

Originally Posted by hoaglanddiver

are you sure 175s will get you "punch" at the bottom? would think you would need really good reflectors (lumenmax elite?).. I have a 31" deep and ran 2x250w MH... I'm now running radion xr30w pro x 2. MHs at 250w each at 10hr/day at 30 days/mo at 10.5 cents/kWh, I was running, $15.75/mo in lighting. however, now running $11.34/mo w/ LED.. lastly, w/ MH you have bulb replacement at least one time a yr -- more like 1.25 times per yr.. each bulb $80 plus shipping. no bulb replace w/ LED.

why do people change out their MH bulbs so often, they can easily last 12-16 months and alot of times up to 24 months with less than 10% par drop. and 14 months with less than 5% par drop.

[strgazr27]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

why do people change out their MH bulbs so often, they can easily last 12-16 months and alot of times up to 24 months with less than 10% par drop. and 14 months with less than 5% par drop.

You're not taking into account spectral shift over time which can/does lead to nuisance algea issues at times. And the testing I did showed about 25-30% drop in par over 12 months on a ushio 20K 250W bulb using an apogee par meter.

On a different note you need to take into account the extra electric that will be used by your heaters. Switching from a 250MH over a 60 cube to an AI raised my heater use age by 30%.

[shifty51008]

well keep your phosphates and nitrates low and you won't get any algae, on my xm20 and 10k bulbs I ran for 18 months with only 8% drop. this is using icecap ballasts though. I gues it depends on the bulbs also.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Originally Posted by atreis

As stated in the several other threads on this subject, cost of operating MH should also include the increased cost for running the chiller more, and during the summer (as applicable - it's not applicable for everyone) of running the household AC more to remove the heat from both the MH and the chiller from the home.

To be fair, operating cost of LED should also include the cost of running the heater more as well. I run a 1/2 hp chiller which sounds like a lot, but that is still around 400w. That's less than the amount of heating I run (500w). So really, if I switch to LEDs and need to run the heaters more in the winter, that's even worse than needing to run the chiller more in summer with halides.

[ClownsRCoo]

That depends on where you live as well. I only need to run my heater maybe 3 months out of the year and a chiller would be on starting now up until late Nov. So for me running the heater is less expensive then a chiller since its used so rarely.

[firebirdude]

[LobsterOfJustice]

Originally Posted by ClownsRCoo

That depends on where you live as well. I only need to run my heater maybe 3 months out of the year and a chiller would be on starting now up until late Nov. So for me running the heater is less expensive then a chiller since its used so rarely.

I agree, it really comes down to what your system needs are. But people love to throw around the heat of MH like a negative, but I'm saying a huge portion of users actually really need that heat for half the year...

[Bobabooie]

Originally Posted by ganjero

Find the KWH in you area and use this calculator http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/tank-electrical

Doing it myself with the standard 12 cents per KWH 2 175w ran 8hrs day will cost $85.17 a year and $10.22 a month. Two Kessil (350 or 360) running at 90w each will cost $43.8 a year and $5.26 a moth.

Thanks for link to the calculator. I'm upgrading tanks and looking into new lighting since mine are not powerful enough. Intersesting to see the impact of my lighting options. Looks more like I need to find more efficient pumps.

[jda]

Like others have said, operational costs won't be what you expect them to be. Get what you think will be the best and go with it. If you have heat issues with MH, this is a setup/airflow problem, not a light issue.

It is true, I have 1200W of heaters on my tank and the heat from the MH really helps in all but 2-3 weeks of the year. When I don't need the heat, a simple fan can keep the tank from budging a degree. Heat is easy to manage.

I do use my 14K phoenix bulbs for 18-24 months. The spectrum does not shift like people think, but the output does go down a bit. You can read the AA articles and decide for yourself, but when I replace one of these bulbs after 18+ months, the coral cannot even tell and I don't acclimate at all.

If you do decide on LED, then factor in a 2-3 year life into your fixtures. There are plenty of people who have gotten new panels since I changed my bulbs last. ...and I doubt that too many people are using panels from 2010-2011 anymore.

[animalkingdom]

Originally Posted by jda

Like others have said, operational costs won't be what you expect them to be. Get what you think will be the best and go with it. If you have heat issues with MH, this is a setup/airflow problem, not a light issue.

It is true, I have 1200W of heaters on my tank and the heat from the MH really helps in all but 2-3 weeks of the year. When I don't need the heat, a simple fan can keep the tank from budging a degree. Heat is easy to manage.

I do use my 14K phoenix bulbs for 18-24 months. The spectrum does not shift like people think, but the output does go down a bit. You can read the AA articles and decide for yourself, but when I replace one of these bulbs after 18+ months, the coral cannot even tell and I don't acclimate at all.

If you do decide on LED, then factor in a 2-3 year life into your fixtures. There are plenty of people who have gotten new panels since I changed my bulbs last. ...and I doubt that too many people are using panels from 2010-2011 anymore.

do you use the double ended or single ended ones that last that long?

[Stackemdeep]

Originally Posted by firebirdude

Deja Vu all over again

[James77]

Originally Posted by firebirdude

Originally Posted by Stackemdeep

Deja Vu all over again

So ignore the thread....unless you are being forced to read it?

[Stackemdeep]

Originally Posted by James77

So ignore the thread....unless you are being forced to read it?

Dry humor and a smile to brighten my day. Thanks for the advice.