Large tank, rock smothered in algae and aptaisia

barrysalt · 04/09/2014, 03:36 PM

Any suggestions on treating a friend's runaway tank (over 1,000 gal) with all rocks completely smothered with green algae and thousands of aptaisia?If I pulled all the rocks and let everything die off, rinsed well, and replaced--would that be the best idea? Would the sand bed have to be removed and replaced?
Thanks...

tkeracer619 · 04/09/2014, 05:03 PM

Yes, in a tank that size it will be easiest to break it down, do some refreshing, and start it back up.

Read through this thread I put together about removing phosphates out of rock outside of the aquarium. I think you will find it helpful.

I would replace the sand unless you really want to go through the hassle of treating it in the same manner.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2145395

benjc · 04/09/2014, 07:41 PM

If your friend doesn't want to breakdown the tank, look into filefish, copperbands, or berghia nudibranches to work on the aptaisia and rabbit fish, tangs, and lawnmower blennies to address the algae. One or two large water changes, and cleaning detritus from the tank, overflow, and sump can also help improve the water quality. Then move onto regular maintenance and nutrient reduction (both in amount of food fed and changing out the di resin if needed).

biecacka · 04/09/2014, 10:31 PM

Break it down if possible. I did on my old 220 and used bleach and acid to start over. Never looked better

Corey

Betta132 · 04/09/2014, 10:37 PM

Can I just ask what happened? Did it get really neglected or something?

barrysalt · 04/10/2014, 07:53 AM

Thanks for the input. It seems the consensus is to pull rocks and sand, acid wash the rocks, replace the sand and start from scratch. That's what I'll recommend. How long does he have to wait after replacing above, before tank is cycled and ready for new fish and corals??
It got this way simply from neglect by owner, and declined very rapidly to this point. Can't look back. He knows (now) what he has to do to maintain things in future. Thanks...

crvz · 04/10/2014, 09:39 AM

Well you havent really addressed changes in tank maintenance, which is really what is going to solve this problem/keep it from reoccurring. All the steps you've lined up will help in the short term, but if you're (well, your buddy) not working towards the long term maintenance, addressing good nutrient export through skimming, water changes, or some other method (turf scrubber, for example). So keep hammering on the criticality of tank maintenance on top of all these short term steps.

Regarding when to add new fish, I would wait a number of months personally. I would get the tank set back up, make sure that whatever I'm doing will keep the algae at bay or at least minimized, then consider new fish. And the first few additions should probably be aimed at keeping nuisances under control. I've had a lot of success controlling algae with foxfaces and the ctenochaetes and naso tangs, and on a 1000 gallon system those could certainly be in the picture.

Felix T Cat · 04/10/2014, 09:47 AM

As someone that is currently trying to recover a 135 from a similar situation I have considered the crash and burn idea. Mine was result of poor maintenance and a 3 day power outage crash. Make sure to check his RO/DI setup before you rebuild. I lost track of my last filter change and while my TDS was still low I was constantly shoving phosphates (and who knows what else) into the tank. Multiply it with a ton of water changes after the power outage crash and right now the tank is a mess.

That said, new filters and water changes have helped tremendously. I just last week added a filefish and he at least seems interested in the aptaisia.

jynx1693 · 04/10/2014, 02:57 PM

filefish will have the aptasia gone in a few months. i would never have believed it either unless i saw it happen. tried nudibranch's but those are hit and miss and weren't producing any results.

clay12340 · 04/10/2014, 03:04 PM

How much rock is in the tank? That sounds like a serious effort and cost to go through an acid bath. I'd be curious to see what a bulk deal on some dry rock would cost. Unless he just has really awesome rock that he is attached to.

tkeracer619 · 04/10/2014, 03:49 PM

These things are not to scale. A 1000g with a lot of rock is a daunting task once it has gone neglected for so long. $1000 in gfo may not pull all the bound phosphates out. It may not even make a dent.

If it were my tank and I wasn't going to break it down for a refresher I would...

-Remove the sand bed. Do not replace yet.
-Vacuum all detritus.
-Remove all bags and sponges.
-Manually remove all the algae as often as possible.
-Drip Lanthinum Chloride into a 10 micron sock. Testing with a Hanna 736 ULR -Phosphate Checker before and 24h after dosing while keeping a log.
-Add only a couple file fish and about 50 mexican turbo snails.
-50%+ water changes every other week.
-Minimal photo period and intensity.
-Once tank is at suitable levels stop with the LC and switch to a biopellet reactor and GFO. Use the GFO until the system is able to control phosphates on its own without algae.

Should only cost a couple grand and half a year to a year to get it back into shape.

-Add new sand after its back in shape.
-Slowly stock and pay attention to nutrient import/export.

Like I said before. I would break the tank down. Put the rock in a separate vat(s). Treat with bleach or acid bath and cure outside of tank. After neglect you should often polish the inside surface of the display. Go through all the equipment. Maybe even put water back into it and fresh sand. Get that going while the rock is processing. Few water changes. It is still going take a year to get the biology running smoothly but the tank will likely be back up and running in 3-4 months. Probably buy the rock vats and supplies to do this for under a grand.

barrysalt · 04/11/2014, 02:01 PM

Good thoughts on all the above. TKERASER619 is certainly comprehensive. It seems that the consensus is the pull all the rock/sand, and either replace with new live rock (will accelerate the cycling and time loss) or go through the acid bath wash, clean and replace. Once done, (or while working on it) we can go to some of the other items i.e.cleaning things out, getting phosphates under control, etc. Thanks again for all the input. Fingers crossed.

tkeracer619 · 04/11/2014, 09:00 PM

I've had my hand in a 1000g tank more then a few times

.

You're welcome. Get us some pics! How bad can it really be. We need a reference

04/09/2014, 03:36 PM	#1
barrysalt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 274	Large tank, rock smothered in algae and aptaisia Any suggestions on treating a friend's runaway tank (over 1,000 gal) with all rocks completely smothered with green algae and thousands of aptaisia?If I pulled all the rocks and let everything die off, rinsed well, and replaced--would that be the best idea? Would the sand bed have to be removed and replaced? Thanks... __________________ I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Current Tank Info: mngr of 3 tanks, 8,000 gals total

04/09/2014, 05:03 PM	#2
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Yes, in a tank that size it will be easiest to break it down, do some refreshing, and start it back up. Read through this thread I put together about removing phosphates out of rock outside of the aquarium. I think you will find it helpful. I would replace the sand unless you really want to go through the hassle of treating it in the same manner. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2145395 __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

04/09/2014, 10:37 PM	#5
Betta132 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,239	Can I just ask what happened? Did it get really neglected or something? __________________ When you put an animal of any kind in a situation where it can no longer fend for itself, such as an aquarium, it's your job to care for it to the best of your ability. It's that simple.

04/10/2014, 07:53 AM	#6
barrysalt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 274	Thanks for the input. It seems the consensus is to pull rocks and sand, acid wash the rocks, replace the sand and start from scratch. That's what I'll recommend. How long does he have to wait after replacing above, before tank is cycled and ready for new fish and corals?? It got this way simply from neglect by owner, and declined very rapidly to this point. Can't look back. He knows (now) what he has to do to maintain things in future. Thanks... __________________ I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Current Tank Info: mngr of 3 tanks, 8,000 gals total

04/10/2014, 09:39 AM	#7
crvz Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: houstonia Posts: 7,989	Well you havent really addressed changes in tank maintenance, which is really what is going to solve this problem/keep it from reoccurring. All the steps you've lined up will help in the short term, but if you're (well, your buddy) not working towards the long term maintenance, addressing good nutrient export through skimming, water changes, or some other method (turf scrubber, for example). So keep hammering on the criticality of tank maintenance on top of all these short term steps. Regarding when to add new fish, I would wait a number of months personally. I would get the tank set back up, make sure that whatever I'm doing will keep the algae at bay or at least minimized, then consider new fish. And the first few additions should probably be aimed at keeping nuisances under control. I've had a lot of success controlling algae with foxfaces and the ctenochaetes and naso tangs, and on a 1000 gallon system those could certainly be in the picture. __________________ -Chris- You don't win friends with salad. "Look! They're trying to learn for free!" ... "Use your phony guns as clubs!" Current Tank Info: rectangluar? wet?

04/09/2014, 07:41 PM	#3
benjc Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 636	If your friend doesn't want to breakdown the tank, look into filefish, copperbands, or berghia nudibranches to work on the aptaisia and rabbit fish, tangs, and lawnmower blennies to address the algae. One or two large water changes, and cleaning detritus from the tank, overflow, and sump can also help improve the water quality. Then move onto regular maintenance and nutrient reduction (both in amount of food fed and changing out the di resin if needed).

04/09/2014, 10:31 PM	#4
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	Break it down if possible. I did on my old 220 and used bleach and acid to start over. Never looked better Corey

04/10/2014, 09:47 AM	#8
Felix T Cat Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Honey Brook, PA Posts: 557	As someone that is currently trying to recover a 135 from a similar situation I have considered the crash and burn idea. Mine was result of poor maintenance and a 3 day power outage crash. Make sure to check his RO/DI setup before you rebuild. I lost track of my last filter change and while my TDS was still low I was constantly shoving phosphates (and who knows what else) into the tank. Multiply it with a ton of water changes after the power outage crash and right now the tank is a mess. That said, new filters and water changes have helped tremendously. I just last week added a filefish and he at least seems interested in the aptaisia.

04/10/2014, 02:57 PM	#9
jynx1693 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Logan, OH Posts: 24	filefish will have the aptasia gone in a few months. i would never have believed it either unless i saw it happen. tried nudibranch's but those are hit and miss and weren't producing any results.

04/10/2014, 03:04 PM	#10
clay12340 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 312	How much rock is in the tank? That sounds like a serious effort and cost to go through an acid bath. I'd be curious to see what a bulk deal on some dry rock would cost. Unless he just has really awesome rock that he is attached to.

04/10/2014, 03:49 PM	#11
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	These things are not to scale. A 1000g with a lot of rock is a daunting task once it has gone neglected for so long. $1000 in gfo may not pull all the bound phosphates out. It may not even make a dent. If it were my tank and I wasn't going to break it down for a refresher I would... -Remove the sand bed. Do not replace yet. -Vacuum all detritus. -Remove all bags and sponges. -Manually remove all the algae as often as possible. -Drip Lanthinum Chloride into a 10 micron sock. Testing with a Hanna 736 ULR -Phosphate Checker before and 24h after dosing while keeping a log. -Add only a couple file fish and about 50 mexican turbo snails. -50%+ water changes every other week. -Minimal photo period and intensity. -Once tank is at suitable levels stop with the LC and switch to a biopellet reactor and GFO. Use the GFO until the system is able to control phosphates on its own without algae. Should only cost a couple grand and half a year to a year to get it back into shape. -Add new sand after its back in shape. -Slowly stock and pay attention to nutrient import/export. Like I said before. I would break the tank down. Put the rock in a separate vat(s). Treat with bleach or acid bath and cure outside of tank. After neglect you should often polish the inside surface of the display. Go through all the equipment. Maybe even put water back into it and fresh sand. Get that going while the rock is processing. Few water changes. It is still going take a year to get the biology running smoothly but the tank will likely be back up and running in 3-4 months. Probably buy the rock vats and supplies to do this for under a grand. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. Last edited by tkeracer619; 04/10/2014 at 03:57 PM.

04/11/2014, 02:01 PM	#12
barrysalt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 274	Good thoughts on all the above. TKERASER619 is certainly comprehensive. It seems that the consensus is the pull all the rock/sand, and either replace with new live rock (will accelerate the cycling and time loss) or go through the acid bath wash, clean and replace. Once done, (or while working on it) we can go to some of the other items i.e.cleaning things out, getting phosphates under control, etc. Thanks again for all the input. Fingers crossed. __________________ I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Current Tank Info: mngr of 3 tanks, 8,000 gals total

04/11/2014, 09:00 PM	#13
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	I've had my hand in a 1000g tank more then a few times . You're welcome. Get us some pics! How bad can it really be. We need a reference __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.