Ick won't go away even with copper!

[tanked_life]

Hello everyone,
After 3 weeks of constant treatment of copper and raised temperatures form 78-80-82 and then to 84, the ick is not going away but looks as if it is prospering. I am keeping the copper levels perfect as directed and I also took out the charcoal and shut off the UV sterilizer in the filter. Currently I feed my fish a varied diet of myso shrimp dipped in Kent garlic extreme along with omega one flakes. The fish still look great but the ick is still there. All of my levels are perfect and for live stock I have a fat Koran angel, a porcupine puffer, and a diamond watchman goby. Would adding a cleaner wrasse help and would it be a good idea to add into a tank with ick and copper? Also any other suggestions to help?

Ps. I have read most of the forums involving ick and other diseases such as velvet. I have followed all directions and I am just at a lost any new ideas will be greatly appreciated

[lagatbezan]

what type of copper are you using and what is the level at? are there any live rock or substrate in the tank you are treating?

[jhentr]

Can be frustrating at times. Can you let us know what kind of copper are you using? Are you treating your display or QT? What level is the copper at?

I have used cupramine in the past with success on my fowlr numerous times. Takes almost two weeks for it to come up to .5 because of the rocks I have. But once it is up to level, I don't see ich anymore after a week. I've been ich free for over two years since I haven't added anything now without Qt - so copper does work.

[tanked_life]

I am using the copper treatment made by seachem, the level is between .5 and .6 and right now it is my main tank that I am treating and it is just a fowler tank

[lagatbezan]

What test kit are you using to read the copper level? Its best to use a test kit made by the same manufacture of the copper. Also the issue might be that the copper is getting absorbed by the live rock and sand in the tank.

[tanked_life]

Originally Posted by lagatbezan

What test kit are you using to read the copper level? Its best to use a test kit made by the same manufacture of the copper. Also the issue might be that the copper is getting absorbed by the live rock and sand in the tank.

The test is made by sea chem as we'll and I am sorry by fowler I meant a while ago we had live rock and slowly we integrated inserts into the tank and slowly removed the lr

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by tanked_life

I am using the copper treatment made by seachem, the level is between .5 and .6 and right now it is my main tank that I am treating and it is just a fowler tank

Fish Only with Live Rock? Live rock and copper is a problem.

[CoralsAddiction]

The treatment should have been done in a bare bottom tank with no live rock...I use a 20 gal tank as quarantine with $4 3 inch PVC pipes from Home Depot.

[tanked_life]

Ok just to be clear, there is no more live rock in the tank only coral inserts and live sand

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by tanked_life

Ok just to be clear, there is no more live rock in the tank only coral inserts and live sand

Sand is the same issue. Bare bottom required for copper.

[tanked_life]

By the way thank you all for the quick responses

[tanked_life]

All I have right now is a 10 gallon quarantine tank should I put all three in there? It is too small

[tanked_life]

Or should I just put the more sick puffer in there he is still small

[CoralsAddiction]

Originally Posted by tanked_life

Ok just to be clear, there is no more live rock in the tank only coral inserts and live sand

The problem with live sand is twofold. It might be absorbing some of the copper and bringing its level down to the point of not being effective. Secondly, substrate is a breeding ground for cryptocaryon. Bare bottom ensures that the parasite is in free flowing stage and gets killed by copper without being able to "hide" and multiply in sand.

[tanked_life]

Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction

The problem with live sand is twofold. It might be absorbing some of the copper and bringing its level down to the point of not being effective. Secondly, substrate is a breeding ground for cryptocaryon. Bare bottom ensures that the parasite is in free flowing stage and gets killed by copper without being able to "hide" and multiply in sand.

Yeah I completely forgot about that stage of the parasite but the real question, is should I put one fish in a time into the ten gallon quarantine or all of them for a short cleanse

[CoralsAddiction]

If your fish are not in imminent danger I would put them 48 hours apart.

[CoralsAddiction]

If I were you I would get a bigger QT right away. 10 gal too small for your live stock

[sandwi54]

don't forget your QT needs to be CYCLED. If it's not cycled you will experience ammonia spike, which will kill your fish sooner than ich.

Many hobbyists make the mistake of setting up a quick QT for treatment but do not understand the importance of cycling, and end up killing their fish with ammonia! A QT needs to be cycled the same way as the DT.

[Deinonych]

Originally Posted by sandwi54

don't forget your QT needs to be CYCLED. If it's not cycled you will experience ammonia spike, which will kill your fish sooner than ich.

Many hobbyists make the mistake of setting up a quick QT for treatment but do not understand the importance of cycling, and end up killing their fish with ammonia! A QT needs to be cycled the same way as the DT.

+1

For emergency QT, I put some media like Seachem Matrix in a HOB filter and add Bio-Spira prior to adding fish. Bio-Spira is one of the few "bacteria in a bottle" products that actually works. I've never had an ammonia problem using this product.

[sandwi54]

Originally Posted by Deinonych

+1

For emergency QT, I put some media like Seachem Matrix in a HOB filter and add Bio-Spira prior to adding fish. Bio-Spira is one of the few "bacteria in a bottle" products that actually works. I've never had an ammonia problem using this product.

Yes I have used bio-spira 5 times and it worked everytime!

[tanked_life]

We'll right now getting a bigger qt is not an option due to lack of funds I don't get paid till next Tuesday. So what I have to work with right now is the ten and I am thinking about putting the puffer which is 3 inches in for 48 hours with the copper possibly

[sandwi54]

A 3" puffer in a 10g QT will be a disaster for water quality if you don't have a heavily seeded filtration. You will most certainly kill the puffer that way. My suggestion is to wait on the treatment until you get the QT fully cycled, if your fish are not in immediate danger. You can start now with a table shrimp in the 10g tank and some a little bit of sand from your DT to kick start. Once the cycle is over, put the sand back into the DT.

Also, I suggest that you maintain 0.5ppm of cupramine for 4 weeks straight to guarantee a high ich kill rate. I have tried different time frames, from two weeks to five weeks, and noticed that > 4 weeks always did the job, while 2 or 3 weeks sometimes don't.

[CoralsAddiction]

I can understand the financial part. If you go to Home Depot they have $13 totes that can hold 15-18 gallon and you can use that as your tank. Doesn't need to be anything more elaborate. I wish you luck. It's never fun to loose old livestock and spend money the new one.

[edsbeaker]

Originally Posted by sandwi54

A 3" puffer in a 10g QT will be a disaster for water quality if you don't have a heavily seeded filtration. You will most certainly kill the puffer that way. My suggestion is to wait on the treatment until you get the QT fully cycled, if your fish are not in immediate danger. You can start now with a table shrimp in the 10g tank and some a little bit of sand from your DT to kick start. Once the cycle is over, put the sand back into the DT.

Also, I suggest that you maintain 0.5ppm of cupramine for 4 weeks straight to guarantee a high ich kill rate. I have tried different time frames, from two weeks to five weeks, and noticed that > 4 weeks always did the job, while 2 or 3 weeks sometimes don't.

Also remember if you only treat the puffer as soon as you put him back in the display he will become reinfected by the other fish anyway. You really don't have much choice other then to put all three fish in QT, and leave the DT fallow for 10 weeks so all stages of ich have time to die out.

[tanked_life]

Thank you all very much for your response! I will keep the copper at .5 for another week and in the meantime start cycling a bigger qt tank jumpstarted with my already cycled 10 gallon water and a lr or two then I will add all 3 fish and wait ten weeks! Thank you everyone