committing to 29g, lots of questions

SeeCrabRun · 06/26/2014, 12:11 PM

I'm picking up a 29g this weekend and I feel like this is going to be very different from caring for my 10g.

Currently I have a HOB and power filter, premixed water, master test kit(pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate), and food of various types. In the tank I have 13lbs of live rock, sand of various texture, and Thin Stripe Hermits.

In the 29g I will eventually add a fish, two at most but I am very interested in the more aggressive fish and so I know I can't have many or even more than that one in some cases, and I can't have most CUC or corals and I'm ok with that. I do not plan to upgrade past 29g as I have determined that is the largest I can fit in my house until my kids have grown more.

I know I need more live rock and more sand,*Is it ok to use regular sand to mix with what I have instead of buying more live sand?

I will need more water and since it is now 29g instead of 10g I may want to mix my own instead of buying the ready to use.*Is there a specific brand/type of salt that is going to be better for my type of tank?

Also I don't want to use tap water, I don't feel comfortable drinking our tap water and so I wouldn't feel comfortable using it for my tank. What kinds of water are safe for mixing? I've been using spring water to top off my tank. Can I use the water from those refill stations in Walmart, Publix, etc?

Do I need a different filtration system than what I've been using? If it will be 1-2 fish and the hermits do I need a sump or canister or anything different than a larger HOB and power filter?

Do I need any additives, buffers or anything like that?

Am I forgetting anything?

Mrramsey · 06/26/2014, 12:24 PM

Its not a great idea to reuse the old sand as this could stir up a mini cycle and cause issues. Buy new dry arragonite sand use your live rock and add any new live rock that has already been cured.

I would look into a RODI water filter if you plan to have any corals if not and just fish only the RO from walmart would probably be fine. I would recommend a sump for a couple of reasons if you can. Greater water volume and you can put heaters and other equipment in the sump so its not in the DT. You can also set up an ATO so you dont have to manually add top off water.

Shouldn't need any additives short of whats in your salt mix unless you are going with corals but even then it would just depend on what you had.

SeeCrabRun · 06/26/2014, 12:44 PM

Definitely no corals, at least for a very long time

I planned to rinse the old sand, is that not ok? I need to cycle the tank again, so that would be ok right?

I'm not sure about a sump. The only place I could put it is in the cabinet under the tank and that would need to be waterproofed and I'd worry about air circulation.

Jetlinkin · 06/26/2014, 02:57 PM

Washing your old sand should be just fine. Just know that it will no longer be "live" after you do that. I would not use regular sand, just buy some more dry sand and rinse it well. If you keep your live rock in SW and keep it wet, you should only get a very slight cycle, if even that. The sand will reseed from the rock. I set up a brand new 120, and the only thing that I reused, was the 150 lbs. of live rock. I could not make it cycle. I could add pure ammonia and it would cycle through to nitrate in under 24 hours as the bio filter in the rock was still intact.

Newsmyrna80 · 06/26/2014, 03:04 PM

I upgraded my tank a couple of years ago and used my old sand and combined it with new rinsed sand with no problems. I had the fish in a QT so once the sand settled I moved them in.
I don't know what kind of "aggressive" fish you are looking at but most of them will not be suitable for a 29 gallon. Unless you are looking at damsels. They can be pretty aggressive.

dofphoto · 06/26/2014, 03:08 PM

If you remove the carbon and such from the HOB and keep the old sand wet there shouldn't be an issue just transfer the water with it-a mini cycle might occur but its better than waiting 3 months to full cycle

add a couple Turbo Snails for the bacteria blooms

As for the sand you are planning on using be careful as some contain treatments to stop mold growth-- Home Depot has bags of white play sand that is untreated in the garden section, I use it all the time-Just wash it well
The live rock is dependent on your live stock and it doesn't seem like you have or want much so I wouldn't worry about that. You are after all running a HOB so sponges can help with the bacteria..

I recommend buying a bottle of Prime but that's about it-- maybe some Phos remover

SeeCrabRun · 06/26/2014, 03:31 PM

I am looking at damsel or a small Angel

Donkeykong · 06/26/2014, 03:50 PM

Damsels and dwarf angels can be territorial but I wouldn't put them in the class of "aggressive" fish. With either of those fish you will be able to keep a good CUC and depending on which angel you should be able to also have corals. Dont worry about dosing any type of additives until you start getting into corals.

SeeCrabRun · 06/26/2014, 04:20 PM

Will I need anything for my pH? It constantly tests at 8.0 to almost 8.2. Is that Ok or do I need to raise it some?

Mrramsey · 06/26/2014, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeCrabRun

Will I need anything for my pH? It constantly tests at 8.0 to almost 8.2. Is that Ok or do I need to raise it some?

Your pH is fine. Stability is key.

SeeCrabRun · 06/26/2014, 10:39 PM

and so since I had a coupon that expires soon I went ahead and bought the tank, 20 more pounds of live rock, 30 more pounds of dry marine sand, an auto rotating power filter meant to give the feel of waves, and a 5.5g tank to put the crabs in with their current live rock while I set all this up and fix the leak in the 10g. I think I may try to use the 5.5 for something later.(my own sump? Refugium? Who knows).

I'll slowly fill the 29 with stuff and let it sit and run the filters before I move the crabs and their live rock in.

I also did a hypo saline dip on the new live rock and it is now in a 10g bucket with an airstone and a bucket heater.

I still need to get heaters, I just realized. I don't have a heater at all currently. Tank is in the window and stays at about 76 consistently. The new tank will not be in the window and will need more help with heat.

I also have a question about lighting.
Do I need it? My house is well lit and I don't have any corals or plants to worry about. Do I have to have a light currently or can that wait?

heartcatcher · 06/27/2014, 05:24 AM

lol, too many questions. best is to start working and learned in the process.

G_Sanab922 · 06/27/2014, 07:15 AM

Don't use spring water..
Read the labels.
I go to publix and buy the purified. But distilled is fine as well... just not the spring water.

And it's better if you can tops off multiple times in a day with little amounts instead of one time with a bigger amount. More times and less amounts will keep everything more stable.

SeeCrabRun · 06/27/2014, 11:59 AM

I'm looking into an ATO to help with that. Hopefully I can build my own.

I've been told many times spring is OK, why would it not be?

Sugar Magnolia · 06/27/2014, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartcatcher

lol, too many questions. best is to start working and learned in the process.

Actually, asking questions is the best route to knowledge. He can learn from the mistakes others have made.

G_Sanab922 · 06/27/2014, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeCrabRun

I'm looking into an ATO to help with that. Hopefully I can build my own.

I've been told many times spring is OK, why would it not be?

It's "ok" but you will encounter more problems. Purified and distilled is better.
The best is RO/DI.
As hobbyist we want to replicate environments as best as possible. Of course, we would need the funds to do so, but do what works for you and experiment. If things could be better and you have the money and capacity to do it so, then make the change.
In regards to the water, it's the same price as spring or maybe a few cents off. Don't think that would hurt the wallet too much anyways

haha

walmart has a filtration system ( at least mine does) and it gives you different options. Check it out.

Get a TDS meter ($10-15) and you'll see it will be plenty higher than purified and distilled.
Read the front label and it tells you all the types of filtration the water has been through and what it contains.

ReefRehab · 06/27/2014, 12:48 PM

I have always mixed my sand with the dry sand when upgrading, but I also had a fairly mixed sand bed due to my CUC If you were only dealing with under 1in of sand depth (since it is mixed sizes), I wouldn't worry too much. Especially if you aren't putting it in with corals or anything that is very sensitive to those fluctuations.

SeeCrabRun · 06/27/2014, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia

Actually, asking questions is the best route to knowledge. He can learn from the mistakes others have made.

Thank you. I was hoisted into this hobby by a stowaway hermit from our trip to the beach. I'm trying to do right by him.

I'd much rather be a bit annoying than let him die by trying to do this all on my own.

Of course the more I learn the more I am turning this accident into an enjoyable hobby.

SeeCrabRun · 06/27/2014, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G_Sanab922

It's "ok" but you will encounter more problems. Purified and distilled is better.
The best is RO/DI.

Thank you I will look into these options

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefRehab

I have always mixed my sand with the dry sand when upgrading, but I also had a fairly mixed sand bed due to my CUC If you were only dealing with under 1in of sand depth (since it is mixed sizes), I wouldn't worry too much. Especially if you aren't putting it in with corals or anything that is very sensitive to those fluctuations.

How deep should it be? I think I may have put too much.

SeeCrabRun · 06/27/2014, 03:37 PM

I've made up the water and laid the sand late last night. I've asked above what the depth should be. It is a mix of the old sand and new sand.
I've measured everything and here is what I've got:

New tank (only has sands)
0.0124
pH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate not quite 0 but not 5

Old tank (has 2 crabs and live rock only)
0.0124
pH 8.2
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40-80

The new tank seems ready to have something added, the old tank needs the nitrates lowered.
What would you suggest?

ETA: the new tank has half the water from my leaking 10g and the old tank was actually moved into a 5.5g.

Donkeykong · 06/27/2014, 04:04 PM

So are you going to move the rock over to the new tank, since it is cured rock it should be able to go over at anytime with the crabs.

SeeCrabRun · 06/27/2014, 04:07 PM

Yes I am wondering how long I would wait before adding the old tank inhabitants to the new tank. Also how much of their water should I bring with them? I've left room in the new tank for the rock and their old water.

Donkeykong · 06/27/2014, 04:11 PM

Dont need to bring any of the old water, most of the good stuff is in the rock. Especially with the high nitrates I would not want to bring any of that over. If the only thing in the tank is 2 crabs I would say do it at any time.

SeeCrabRun · 06/27/2014, 04:15 PM

Yes just crabs.

I have 20lbs of live rock in QT right now as well. It is cured but I heard there may have been an ich scare so I want to make sure to keep that out of the tank.

Jetlinkin · 06/27/2014, 06:14 PM

Crabs will not get ich and if you do not have any fish in your tank for 12 weeks, you will not have any ich in the tank ever.

06/26/2014, 12:11 PM	#1
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	committing to 29g, lots of questions I'm picking up a 29g this weekend and I feel like this is going to be very different from caring for my 10g. Currently I have a HOB and power filter, premixed water, master test kit(pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate), and food of various types. In the tank I have 13lbs of live rock, sand of various texture, and Thin Stripe Hermits. In the 29g I will eventually add a fish, two at most but I am very interested in the more aggressive fish and so I know I can't have many or even more than that one in some cases, and I can't have most CUC or corals and I'm ok with that. I do not plan to upgrade past 29g as I have determined that is the largest I can fit in my house until my kids have grown more. I know I need more live rock and more sand,*Is it ok to use regular sand to mix with what I have instead of buying more live sand? I will need more water and since it is now 29g instead of 10g I may want to mix my own instead of buying the ready to use.*Is there a specific brand/type of salt that is going to be better for my type of tank? Also I don't want to use tap water, I don't feel comfortable drinking our tap water and so I wouldn't feel comfortable using it for my tank. What kinds of water are safe for mixing? I've been using spring water to top off my tank. Can I use the water from those refill stations in Walmart, Publix, etc? Do I need a different filtration system than what I've been using? If it will be 1-2 fish and the hermits do I need a sump or canister or anything different than a larger HOB and power filter? Do I need any additives, buffers or anything like that? Am I forgetting anything?

06/26/2014, 12:24 PM	#2
Mrramsey NEO Reefer Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 1,801	Its not a great idea to reuse the old sand as this could stir up a mini cycle and cause issues. Buy new dry arragonite sand use your live rock and add any new live rock that has already been cured. I would look into a RODI water filter if you plan to have any corals if not and just fish only the RO from walmart would probably be fine. I would recommend a sump for a couple of reasons if you can. Greater water volume and you can put heaters and other equipment in the sump so its not in the DT. You can also set up an ATO so you dont have to manually add top off water. Shouldn't need any additives short of whats in your salt mix unless you are going with corals but even then it would just depend on what you had. __________________ Mike My 120 Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389417 Current Tank Info: 120g In-Wall \| BA Overflow \| 55g Sump \| SWC Extreme 150 Skimmer \| DIY ATO \| 2 Jebao RW-8\| Fluval SP6 \| Photon 48v2 LED \| GFO and Carbon

06/26/2014, 02:57 PM	#4
Jetlinkin Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: St. Michael, MN Posts: 113	Washing your old sand should be just fine. Just know that it will no longer be "live" after you do that. I would not use regular sand, just buy some more dry sand and rinse it well. If you keep your live rock in SW and keep it wet, you should only get a very slight cycle, if even that. The sand will reseed from the rock. I set up a brand new 120, and the only thing that I reused, was the 150 lbs. of live rock. I could not make it cycle. I could add pure ammonia and it would cycle through to nitrate in under 24 hours as the bio filter in the rock was still intact. __________________ The greatest trick the Devil ever played, was to convince the world he did not exist. Current Tank Info: 120 Mixed Reef, 2 Ecotech Radion G3Pros, 2 Ecotech Vortech MP40Ws, Diablo 200X, 30 Custom Sump, Apex Controller, 150 lbs. Live Rock.

06/26/2014, 03:04 PM	#5
Newsmyrna80 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 2,312	I upgraded my tank a couple of years ago and used my old sand and combined it with new rinsed sand with no problems. I had the fish in a QT so once the sand settled I moved them in. I don't know what kind of "aggressive" fish you are looking at but most of them will not be suitable for a 29 gallon. Unless you are looking at damsels. They can be pretty aggressive. __________________ 80 gal frag with 30 gal refugium, Orphek Atlantik LED, Red Sea RSK300 skimmer, predominately SPS and LPS Current Tank Info: 80 gallon reef tank with 30 gal refugium

06/27/2014, 06:14 PM	#25
Jetlinkin Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: St. Michael, MN Posts: 113	Crabs will not get ich and if you do not have any fish in your tank for 12 weeks, you will not have any ich in the tank ever. __________________ The greatest trick the Devil ever played, was to convince the world he did not exist. Current Tank Info: 120 Mixed Reef, 2 Ecotech Radion G3Pros, 2 Ecotech Vortech MP40Ws, Diablo 200X, 30 Custom Sump, Apex Controller, 150 lbs. Live Rock.

06/26/2014, 12:44 PM	#3
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Definitely no corals, at least for a very long time I planned to rinse the old sand, is that not ok? I need to cycle the tank again, so that would be ok right? I'm not sure about a sump. The only place I could put it is in the cabinet under the tank and that would need to be waterproofed and I'd worry about air circulation.

06/26/2014, 03:08 PM	#6
dofphoto Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: CA Posts: 11	If you remove the carbon and such from the HOB and keep the old sand wet there shouldn't be an issue just transfer the water with it-a mini cycle might occur but its better than waiting 3 months to full cycle add a couple Turbo Snails for the bacteria blooms As for the sand you are planning on using be careful as some contain treatments to stop mold growth-- Home Depot has bags of white play sand that is untreated in the garden section, I use it all the time-Just wash it well The live rock is dependent on your live stock and it doesn't seem like you have or want much so I wouldn't worry about that. You are after all running a HOB so sponges can help with the bacteria.. I recommend buying a bottle of Prime but that's about it-- maybe some Phos remover

06/26/2014, 03:31 PM	#7
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	I am looking at damsel or a small Angel

06/26/2014, 03:50 PM	#8
Donkeykong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grover Beach CA Posts: 1,847	Damsels and dwarf angels can be territorial but I wouldn't put them in the class of "aggressive" fish. With either of those fish you will be able to keep a good CUC and depending on which angel you should be able to also have corals. Dont worry about dosing any type of additives until you start getting into corals.

06/26/2014, 04:20 PM	#9
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Will I need anything for my pH? It constantly tests at 8.0 to almost 8.2. Is that Ok or do I need to raise it some?

06/26/2014, 10:39 PM	#11
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	and so since I had a coupon that expires soon I went ahead and bought the tank, 20 more pounds of live rock, 30 more pounds of dry marine sand, an auto rotating power filter meant to give the feel of waves, and a 5.5g tank to put the crabs in with their current live rock while I set all this up and fix the leak in the 10g. I think I may try to use the 5.5 for something later.(my own sump? Refugium? Who knows). I'll slowly fill the 29 with stuff and let it sit and run the filters before I move the crabs and their live rock in. I also did a hypo saline dip on the new live rock and it is now in a 10g bucket with an airstone and a bucket heater. I still need to get heaters, I just realized. I don't have a heater at all currently. Tank is in the window and stays at about 76 consistently. The new tank will not be in the window and will need more help with heat. I also have a question about lighting. Do I need it? My house is well lit and I don't have any corals or plants to worry about. Do I have to have a light currently or can that wait?

06/27/2014, 05:24 AM	#12
heartcatcher Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 1	lol, too many questions. best is to start working and learned in the process.

06/27/2014, 07:15 AM	#13
G_Sanab922 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Keys Posts: 1,392	Don't use spring water.. Read the labels. I go to publix and buy the purified. But distilled is fine as well... just not the spring water. And it's better if you can tops off multiple times in a day with little amounts instead of one time with a bigger amount. More times and less amounts will keep everything more stable.

06/27/2014, 11:59 AM	#14
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	I'm looking into an ATO to help with that. Hopefully I can build my own. I've been told many times spring is OK, why would it not be?

06/27/2014, 12:48 PM	#17
ReefRehab Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 15	I have always mixed my sand with the dry sand when upgrading, but I also had a fairly mixed sand bed due to my CUC If you were only dealing with under 1in of sand depth (since it is mixed sizes), I wouldn't worry too much. Especially if you aren't putting it in with corals or anything that is very sensitive to those fluctuations.

06/27/2014, 03:37 PM	#20
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	I've made up the water and laid the sand late last night. I've asked above what the depth should be. It is a mix of the old sand and new sand. I've measured everything and here is what I've got: New tank (only has sands) 0.0124 pH 8.2 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate not quite 0 but not 5 Old tank (has 2 crabs and live rock only) 0.0124 pH 8.2 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 40-80 The new tank seems ready to have something added, the old tank needs the nitrates lowered. What would you suggest? ETA: the new tank has half the water from my leaking 10g and the old tank was actually moved into a 5.5g.

06/27/2014, 04:04 PM	#21
Donkeykong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grover Beach CA Posts: 1,847	So are you going to move the rock over to the new tank, since it is cured rock it should be able to go over at anytime with the crabs.

06/27/2014, 04:07 PM	#22
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Yes I am wondering how long I would wait before adding the old tank inhabitants to the new tank. Also how much of their water should I bring with them? I've left room in the new tank for the rock and their old water.

06/27/2014, 04:11 PM	#23
Donkeykong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Grover Beach CA Posts: 1,847	Dont need to bring any of the old water, most of the good stuff is in the rock. Especially with the high nitrates I would not want to bring any of that over. If the only thing in the tank is 2 crabs I would say do it at any time.

06/27/2014, 04:15 PM	#24
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Yes just crabs. I have 20lbs of live rock in QT right now as well. It is cured but I heard there may have been an ich scare so I want to make sure to keep that out of the tank.