Questions about Velvet treatment

[djbetterly]

So I read through @snorvich sticky about velvet treatment and I have a few questions. I appreciate who ever takes the time to respond, I really don't want to mess this up since these poor fish have been through so much as is.

1. It says to do a freshwater dip with a specific gravity of 1.001. So I'm gathering that means there should be some salt in there to reach the SG of 1.001 correct?

2. What is the best way to adjust the pH? Buffers?

3. Formalin bath - Where do I get formalin and how long do you do the formalin bath for?

4. When he says vigorous agitation, does that mean with a strong current with a power head?

5. Lastly, where do you get Chloroquine diphosphate? And what is the treatment regimen for using?

[GroktheCube]

Usually an alk buffer will raise SG from 1 to 1.001 on its own. Generally somewhere in the 5 minute range for dips is a good time. Do not combine formalin dip with FW dip. Formalin can be found at most pet shops.

Chloroquine can be a bit trickier to find. If you have a vet, they can prescribe it for you, that's likely the easiest way to get it. Otherwise, it'll take a little digging on the internet.

[djbetterly]

So even though @snorvich says:

Following a fresh water dip, use a formalin bath, and then place them in a QT with vigorous aeration provided. To address complications from secondary infections, also treat the fish with an appropriate antibiotic or anti-bacterial medication. Continue treating the fish in the QT until the Amyloodinium appears to be gone, and then keep treating for another week after that.

I don't doubt you, but I'm curious why you say don't do both?

[billsreef]

Originally Posted by djbetterly

So I read through @snorvich sticky about velvet treatment and I have a few questions. I appreciate who ever takes the time to respond, I really don't want to mess this up since these poor fish have been through so much as is.

1. It says to do a freshwater dip with a specific gravity of 1.001. So I'm gathering that means there should be some salt in there to reach the SG of 1.001 correct?

No real need to worry about the sg of fresh water

2. What is the best way to adjust the pH? Buffers?

Any commercial buffer or homemade buffer will do. In practice, I find just so long at the pH is over 7, it is fine for short duration dips.

3. Formalin bath - Where do I get formalin and how long do you do the formalin bath for?

Some pet shops will have it, sometimes full strength (37% formaldehyde) and sometimes combined with malachite green, such as Quick Cure. If you use the full strength formalin, short dips are 1ml per gallon of SW, for 1 hour. Otherwise follow the directions on the bottle.

4. When he says vigorous agitation, does that mean with a strong current with a power head?

While that will work, since short dips are usually done in small containers, an airstone is more practical.

5. Lastly, where do you get Chloroquine diphosphate? And what is the treatment regimen for using?

Unfortunately hard to find in hobbyist quantities. It is the best treatment and worth the trouble of finding. Treatment is 10mg per L, single dose for 20 days. Second run of treatment can be done if needed. Any water changes done during treatment should be using replacement water dosed to treatment strength.

[djbetterly]

Thanks Bill!

Does this look correct for Chloroquine diphosphate?

http://www.abcam.com/chloroquine-dip...-ab142116.html

[billsreef]

That is the stuff. Though I never new it had any anti cancer properties.

[djbetterly]

How does paraguard compare to the 37% formula?

[djbetterly]

Alright, picked up a 12 gallon tank today at petco. Now just need to find the meds. I've found a few options, curious what is going to be best.

Thoughts:
FishVet Forumulin MS

Pure 37% Formaldehyde

Seachem Paraguard

And lastly, do you think the Chloroquine diphosphate is completely necessary? Its expensive stuff!

And lastly, the methylene blue seems very necessary, but which is better?
Kordon Methylene Blue

Kordon Fish Protector

[billsreef]

Originally Posted by djbetterly

Alright, picked up a 12 gallon tank today at petco. Now just need to find the meds. I've found a few options, curious what is going to be best.

Thoughts:
FishVet Forumulin MS

Pure 37% Formaldehyde

Both these are the same thing. Classic formalin, formalin being the proper name for formaldehyde in solution, 37% formaldehyde being the saturation possible in water

Seachem Paraguard

Basically a proprietary treatment similar to formalin, but supposedly safer and more stable. Simular in effect and use to formalin.

And lastly, do you think the Chloroquine diphosphate is completely necessary? Its expensive stuff!

Of all the options, this is the single best treatment choice available for Amyloodinium.

And lastly, the methylene blue seems very necessary, but which is better?
Kordon Methylene Blue

Kordon Fish Protector

I would not consider methylene blue necessary. However, it does have some benefit in increasing the O2 holding capacity of water. Otherwise, no real effect on Amyloodinium.

[djbetterly]

Bill - Thank you!

[djbetterly]

I have the formalin and Chloroquine diphosphate on the way.

So just to reiterate the steps:

1. Freshwater Bath with pH above 7

2. Formalin Bath - Follow directions on bottle?

3. Put fish into hospital tank, 10mg/L, single dose for 20 days.

While all of this is happening can I use any additives to help battle any nitrite/ammonia spikes? Or is it better to control via water changes?

In the mean time I need to keep the tank fallow for 6-8 weeks as well correct? During that period I'm going to keep the fish in the hospital tank, so after the 20 days can I return the water to normal clean water or should I maintain some sort of medication in the tank?

[billsreef]

If it's regular formalin, 1ml per gal of SW for an hour is the usual short duration bath.

I have used ChlorAm-X (active ingredient in regular Amquel) in conjunction with Chloroquine for ammonia control. There is some contradictory information on Chloroquine's effect on biofilters. Some will tell you it has no effect, and others will tell it does. In general, it seems that is those of us that have treated large scale systems with high stocking loads that have seen ammonia spikes while using it. So keep an eye on ammonia levels, if you see it start to creep up, use one of the ammonia binders.

[djbetterly]

So I just found at that the formalin isn't going to be here until next week, but I should have the chloroquine later today. My clown seemed a bit agitated this morning, would it be bad to skip the formalin bath and go straight from a freshwater dip into the hospital tank with the chloroquine?

[billsreef]

No problem skipping the formalin and going straight for the chloroquine. That's how I do it when treating thousands of fish at a time

[djbetterly]

Thousands???? What is it you do?

I have two of the fish in QT now, the wrasse has proven, as expected, tough to catch. Hopefully it will be good until this weekend.

[billsreef]

Originally Posted by djbetterly

Thousands???? What is it you do?

Marine biologist Used to run a wet lab culturing fish for research for a number of years. These days I've gotten out of the direct research, and manage the facilities for a university marine science program. Also get spend some time as research vessel captain for part of the job, mostly taken classes out for field labs.

[djbetterly]

So I ended up losing another fish, the pinkbar goby, it died in QT. Not really sure of what happened but it was super skinny and hadn't been eating.

On a side note I was able to catch the melanarus wrasse. I'm a bit concerned because the wrasse isn't moving at all in the QT tank, maybe because there is no light in there?

Also, there were two white stringy things, about an 1in plus, floating around in the QT tank, I was able to get them out. Is it possible it was a worm?

[billsreef]

Sounds like the goby was already in pretty bad shape

Wrasse behavior sounds pretty normal for having just been thrown into a new and unfamiliar environment. Do you some cover in the QT for the fish to use?

White stringy things could be worms or fecal matter from constipated fish. Too broad a description to really tell.

[djbetterly]

Yeah, I have a piece of 1.5in pvc in there. Right now he pinned himself behind a portion of the filter, he's breathing quite hard though.

[djbetterly]

Any thoughts on the heavy breathing in QT? It's been going on for a few days...has me worried.

[billsreef]

Amyloodinium does a lot of damage to the gills. Even if the treatment knocks out the parasite, it takes awhile for the damage do heal. Also, keep tabs on the ammonia. Not unusual to have ammonia spikes in a QT.

[djbetterly]

Well I lost the battle...everything is gone.

I checked on the final two this morning and they were both breathing heavy. I also noticed a strange smell coming from the water, it was a mildewy smell and the water was getting a bit cloudy. Not sure what that was about. I tested the pH - 7.8, nitrites were 0 and ammonia was 0 as well.

I attached a picture of the clown. It was kind of weird, the white areas of the skin were losing their whiteness, they were a bit more reddish.

So ****ed off right now..not sure what I should do. Things run through my head like what if it wasn't velvet? Should I throw a fish or two back in the tank and see what happens? Leave it fallow just in case?

[billsreef]

Sorry to hear they didn't make it

That mildew smell is a bit odd, not sure what would have caused that.

With such complete loss, despite treatment with CP, I do suspect it was something other than velvet. Probably not a bad idea to leave the tank fallow for 6 to 8 weeks for good measure, than QT every new fish.

[djbetterly]

How long do you QT new fish for? And do you use normal water or medicated water?

[billsreef]

I generally QT in hyposalinity. Medicate based on observation or known common issues from a given source. Minimum off 4 weeks QT, 6 to 8 being better.