Refugium or DSB?

Mrramsey · 08/08/2014, 06:38 AM

Ok my tank has been up for 6 months or so now. My sump has a center return and I built a small refugium on the left. IIRC it is about 13" cubed and has 3" of sand and and 10# of LR. Not much of a fuge...

I was thinking filling it with sand for a DSB and using it as a nitrate reducer. Low flow of water a couple inches over the top of the sand.

Thoughts?

thegrun · 08/08/2014, 07:41 AM

I think you would get better nitrate and phosphate reduction growing macro algae in that section instead of a deep sand bed.

tmz · 08/08/2014, 08:15 AM

The deep sand there won't do much nitrate reduction . A shallow bed is just as good.Brisk flow is better over sand formore advective flow into the sand. I'd add a large piece or two of live rock . Chaeto bare bottom might be useful but then you need to light it and the space is small for a macro algae fuge to effect nutrient levels for the tank size very much. I don't like to put macroalge over sand;the exudates tend to hang around and clog the sand making a mess

davocean · 08/08/2014, 08:27 AM

Neither is going to do a whole lot for nitrate reduction in that small of space, but a fuge w/ chaeto would be my choice as it would do other things for you as well, pods, and PH balance if you do a reverse light cycle.
LR rubble and chaeto is all I would do

Mrramsey · 08/08/2014, 08:44 AM

I was having a minor algae issue. So trying to figure out the nest use for the space. this is my fuge currently. I used it to seed the main tank. I had bought some corals from a guy breaking down his tank so I am sure that is where my algae came from. I also am not sure if I should raise the intensity of my lighting or what. It maxes at 30% for about 3 hrs per day at a 50 /50 mix on ch1 and ch2.

Sk8r · 08/08/2014, 08:52 AM

You would get better algae reduction from 1 jar GFO per 50 gallons in a reactor. After several months (and of course using ro/di) you will not see algae except in your fuge.) Algae feeds on phosphate, which Gfo binds.

If you're having nitrate issues, that is from some other cause. FIltration media can cause it.

Mrramsey · 08/08/2014, 09:06 AM

None of it is necessarily what I would call a problem. Nitrates are only 2ppm and after 3 days of lights out the PO3-4 are at 0ppm.

davocean · 08/08/2014, 09:14 AM

At 6mo that tank is still fairly new, things will balance more over time but I don't think you are that bad at all.
I would not raise light intensity if you are having algae issues, they will increase most likely,in fact if it were me I would even consider a short lights out period to help get in check and then keep doing what you are doing to eliminate it.
I agree, GFO would be a good add.
I would keep your fuge just as is but add chaeto.

tmz · 08/08/2014, 10:32 PM

I would wait on GFO if your PO4 is low ( ie under 0.03ppm.) unless the algae problem is significant.
All living things including corals need some phosphate and a number of folks see corals suffer from stripping it down to far or too fast.
Some algae like bryopsis and turf algae and others do fine in low phosphate .btw;though many are limited at less than 0.03ppm . Sometimes the algae takes PO4 from the rock as well as the water column. Some types can access organic phosphate via enzymes they produce as well as the inorganic PO4 we can measure.

I think what you have in the sump space now in the picture is fine, shallow sand with a large rock ;doesn't need light;provides surface area for bacteria and fauna and habitat.Flow into the rock will increase flow in the sand via advective current (as the water flow hits the rock the pressure drops under it causing and upwelling of water and consequent downward flow to fill the void).
Pods and such will grow there.

If you want macro algae ,like chaeto; I 'd go bare bottom with it. It's exudates are refractory ( doesn't degrade) organic matter and tends to clog up sand beds over time . Rubble tends to gather it and detritus. The chaeto won't grow at less than 0.03ppm PO4 IME and any effect it has on adding oxygen or using CO2 thus raising pH relates to the amount of photsynthesis and growth occuring.

Mrramsey · 08/09/2014, 05:27 AM

Thanks for all of the input guys. It certainly gives me plenty on options. I think for now with as little as I have going on I am gonna give cheato as shot.

tmz · 08/09/2014, 09:10 AM

You are welcome .As you can see there is more than one way to use that space. Trying some chaeto is certainly one of them.

08/08/2014, 06:38 AM	#1
Mrramsey NEO Reefer Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 1,801	Refugium or DSB? Ok my tank has been up for 6 months or so now. My sump has a center return and I built a small refugium on the left. IIRC it is about 13" cubed and has 3" of sand and and 10# of LR. Not much of a fuge... I was thinking filling it with sand for a DSB and using it as a nitrate reducer. Low flow of water a couple inches over the top of the sand. Thoughts? __________________ Mike My 120 Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389417 Current Tank Info: 120g In-Wall \| BA Overflow \| 55g Sump \| SWC Extreme 150 Skimmer \| DIY ATO \| 2 Jebao RW-8\| Fluval SP6 \| Photon 48v2 LED \| GFO and Carbon

08/08/2014, 08:15 AM	#3
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	The deep sand there won't do much nitrate reduction . A shallow bed is just as good.Brisk flow is better over sand formore advective flow into the sand. I'd add a large piece or two of live rock . Chaeto bare bottom might be useful but then you need to light it and the space is small for a macro algae fuge to effect nutrient levels for the tank size very much. I don't like to put macroalge over sand;the exudates tend to hang around and clog the sand making a mess __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

08/08/2014, 08:27 AM	#4
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	Neither is going to do a whole lot for nitrate reduction in that small of space, but a fuge w/ chaeto would be my choice as it would do other things for you as well, pods, and PH balance if you do a reverse light cycle. LR rubble and chaeto is all I would do __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

08/08/2014, 08:44 AM	#5
Mrramsey NEO Reefer Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 1,801	I was having a minor algae issue. So trying to figure out the nest use for the space. this is my fuge currently. I used it to seed the main tank. I had bought some corals from a guy breaking down his tank so I am sure that is where my algae came from. I also am not sure if I should raise the intensity of my lighting or what. It maxes at 30% for about 3 hrs per day at a 50 /50 mix on ch1 and ch2. __________________ Mike My 120 Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389417 Current Tank Info: 120g In-Wall \| BA Overflow \| 55g Sump \| SWC Extreme 150 Skimmer \| DIY ATO \| 2 Jebao RW-8\| Fluval SP6 \| Photon 48v2 LED \| GFO and Carbon

08/08/2014, 08:52 AM	#6
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	You would get better algae reduction from 1 jar GFO per 50 gallons in a reactor. After several months (and of course using ro/di) you will not see algae except in your fuge.) Algae feeds on phosphate, which Gfo binds. If you're having nitrate issues, that is from some other cause. FIltration media can cause it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/08/2014, 07:41 AM	#2
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	I think you would get better nitrate and phosphate reduction growing macro algae in that section instead of a deep sand bed.

08/08/2014, 09:06 AM	#7
Mrramsey NEO Reefer Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 1,801	None of it is necessarily what I would call a problem. Nitrates are only 2ppm and after 3 days of lights out the PO3-4 are at 0ppm. __________________ Mike My 120 Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389417 Current Tank Info: 120g In-Wall \| BA Overflow \| 55g Sump \| SWC Extreme 150 Skimmer \| DIY ATO \| 2 Jebao RW-8\| Fluval SP6 \| Photon 48v2 LED \| GFO and Carbon

08/08/2014, 09:14 AM	#8
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	At 6mo that tank is still fairly new, things will balance more over time but I don't think you are that bad at all. I would not raise light intensity if you are having algae issues, they will increase most likely,in fact if it were me I would even consider a short lights out period to help get in check and then keep doing what you are doing to eliminate it. I agree, GFO would be a good add. I would keep your fuge just as is but add chaeto. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

08/08/2014, 10:32 PM	#9
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I would wait on GFO if your PO4 is low ( ie under 0.03ppm.) unless the algae problem is significant. All living things including corals need some phosphate and a number of folks see corals suffer from stripping it down to far or too fast. Some algae like bryopsis and turf algae and others do fine in low phosphate .btw;though many are limited at less than 0.03ppm . Sometimes the algae takes PO4 from the rock as well as the water column. Some types can access organic phosphate via enzymes they produce as well as the inorganic PO4 we can measure. I think what you have in the sump space now in the picture is fine, shallow sand with a large rock ;doesn't need light;provides surface area for bacteria and fauna and habitat.Flow into the rock will increase flow in the sand via advective current (as the water flow hits the rock the pressure drops under it causing and upwelling of water and consequent downward flow to fill the void). Pods and such will grow there. If you want macro algae ,like chaeto; I 'd go bare bottom with it. It's exudates are refractory ( doesn't degrade) organic matter and tends to clog up sand beds over time . Rubble tends to gather it and detritus. The chaeto won't grow at less than 0.03ppm PO4 IME and any effect it has on adding oxygen or using CO2 thus raising pH relates to the amount of photsynthesis and growth occuring. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

08/09/2014, 05:27 AM	#10
Mrramsey NEO Reefer Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Hudson Ohio Posts: 1,801	Thanks for all of the input guys. It certainly gives me plenty on options. I think for now with as little as I have going on I am gonna give cheato as shot. __________________ Mike My 120 Build: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389417 Current Tank Info: 120g In-Wall \| BA Overflow \| 55g Sump \| SWC Extreme 150 Skimmer \| DIY ATO \| 2 Jebao RW-8\| Fluval SP6 \| Photon 48v2 LED \| GFO and Carbon

08/09/2014, 09:10 AM	#11
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	You are welcome .As you can see there is more than one way to use that space. Trying some chaeto is certainly one of them. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.