Is live sand in a bag really live?

chill86 · 09/08/2014, 10:04 AM

I am starting a couple of new tanks and I will be doing live sand "Caribsea" w/ dry rock in one tank and dry sand and dry rock in the other. I will be using ammonia in both systems, raising it to 3ppm to supply bacteria with the proper nutrients. My goal is to see which tank completes the cycle first to debunk the myth of live sand being rendered useless. I have heard that live sand is now packaged in bags that allow oxygen to enter it helping the bacteria proliferate. I have also heard many people say it is just garbage and a waist of paper. So I will let the test results decide the outcome of the observation in this matter.
Has anyone else done a similar observation before? If so please post and compare your results. I am in no way affiliated with, nor do I sell Caribsea products FTR.

coralsnaked · 09/08/2014, 10:19 AM

Caribsea starts out live but is it still live when you receive it? Hummm...Don't know depends on how it was handled. Sure it is packed wet and vacuum sealed to help keep bacteria alive. But if it sits on a pallet in the back of a freight liner or boxcar for days subjected to extreme heat or cold does it survive? Maybe, maybe not! One thing for sure is there are lots of dead critters in it that will jump start your cycle.

PS: Poll does not reflect those who choose another substrate like crushed coral etc...

moulton712 · 09/08/2014, 10:35 AM

I had 3 bags of live sand in my garage for over a year. I upgraded tanks and didn't use any of my old sand. I dropped all the sand that was in my garage into the tank after it had been set up for about 3 weeks. Everything lived! I have probably about 4k in corals alone. I have a few tanks running so if i saw anything negative i could pull all live stock.

The biggest benefit to live sand vs dead sand is i dont worry about phosphate.

I always suggest a ton of live rock and live sand. I use a minimalist aqua scape and throw live rock in the sump.

HumbleFish · 09/08/2014, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coralsnaked

Caribsea starts out live but is it still live when you receive it? Hummm...

+1 For those who can't wait, using all LR and dry sand will result in a quick cycle. I can't say the same if you use all live sand and dry rock. That tells you where having bacteria is most important.

chill86 · 09/08/2014, 11:20 AM

[QUOTE=coralsnaked;23082211]Caribsea starts out live but is it still live when you receive it? Hummm...Don't know depends on how it was handled. Sure it is packed wet and vacuum sealed to help keep bacteria alive. But if it sits on a pallet in the back of a freight liner or boxcar for days subjected to extreme heat or cold does it survive? Maybe, maybe not! One thing for sure is there are lots of dead critters in it that will jump start your cycle.

PS: Poll does not reflect those who choose another substrate like crushed coral etc...[/QUOTE

Thanks for sharing, those are very important factors when it comes to getting the right so called live "sand in a bag." So it is very important to consider these factors.
-Make sure the temperature is in the correct range in both the distributor's and buyers area.
-Make sure there are no punctures in the bag. (Look out for dry bags of live sand and punctures in the bag.) If there is water and it does not leak any where, it should be alright.
-Look for a expiration date on the bag.

Lets replace the word sand with substrate.

chill86 · 09/08/2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

+1 For those who can't wait, using all LR and dry sand will result in a quick cycle. I can't say the same if you use all live sand and dry rock. That tells you where having bacteria is most important.

My lfs only has huge pieces of tonga rock that are covered with flat worms, bubble algae, gha, and theres no telling what type of parasites come with it for $12 lb. I'm just tired of having to deal with a different nuisance every week. The rock that I have in the tanks now where reincarnated using bleach and muriatic acid.

zoomonster · 09/08/2014, 03:32 PM

Personally I think the best deal and route is a combo. I used Caribsea Ocean Direct live sand (very little water and a 40# bag was actually 43# to make up for moisture). That's basically sugar sand so three bags went in followed by three 40# bags of Caribsea seafloor special grade dry sand. That together and it all (for the most part) stays put with high flow. F&S was cheaper than anything local, no tax and I bought enough for free shipping. The UPS guy was a little perturbed because they sent 6 bags in six oversized boxes. On top of all that probably 200+# of old dead rock and another 50# of live rock.

BTW the live rock was added a couple weeks later and the live sand was enough for a first cycle.

CuzzA · 09/08/2014, 03:59 PM

Whether it's alive or not it's worth it to me to not have to spend the time to clean dry sand. I guess sometimes it comes down to how much you value your time.

PRSPLYR · 09/08/2014, 05:32 PM

What about live sand/live rock? I dont see that option in your poll.....

billdogg · 09/08/2014, 06:05 PM

IMHO "live" sand in a bag is a huge waste of money. All you need to seed the sand is a cupful from your LFS or a local reefer.

zoomonster · 09/08/2014, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

IMHO "live" sand in a bag is a huge waste of money. All you need to seed the sand is a cupful from your LFS or a local reefer.

Not quite sure how you figure that being ocean direct live sand is virtually the same price as seafloor both in 40 pound bags. The live sand is moist but no water like some live sands and needs no washing. A cup of LFS or local reefer is liable to get you pests. Sand is not exactly something you can dip before it goes in the tank. Of course if someone's scooping most beach sand or looking for $5 bags of sand from HD or Lowes that's another tragic story waiting to happen.

kendrid · 09/08/2014, 07:19 PM

The live sand I used had some worms in it that we're crawling around. It must have been fresh.

HumbleFish · 09/08/2014, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billdogg

All you need to seed the sand is a cupful from your LFS or a local reefer.

The problem with this is the possibility of introducing ich. I guess dry sand/rock and a little patience gets my

2_zoa · 09/08/2014, 08:35 PM

Any live sand I've ever used Carbisea had a bacteria pouch in it. Is the bacteria in the pouch still live? Held in a, "on hold state"? The bags I've bought have all had use by dates on them.

scott71 · 09/08/2014, 10:49 PM

Live sand is worth the money. Use Caribsea and you will benefit. Not a waste of $$

CoralReef2017 · 09/09/2014, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

+1 For those who can't wait, using all LR and dry sand will result in a quick cycle. I can't say the same if you use all live sand and dry rock. That tells you where having bacteria is most important.

Agree with you there

CoralReef2017 · 09/09/2014, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

The problem with this is the possibility of introducing ich. I guess dry sand/rock and a little patience gets my

Yes indeed

chill86 · 09/09/2014, 10:23 AM

Good point Cuzza, I cant stand washing sand, especially in the winter time.

chill86 · 09/09/2014, 10:25 AM

Hey Kendrid, are you talking about live sand from a fellow reefer or in a bag?

chill86 · 09/09/2014, 10:29 AM

2 Zoa, I think I have a extra packet of the Bio magnet clarifier. I wonder what it looks like under the microscope?

madadi · 09/09/2014, 10:30 AM

I don't like to pay for water so for that reason I always buy dry sand. live or dry rock I have done both with same results.

zoomonster · 09/09/2014, 10:51 AM

At least with the Caribsea Ocean Direct the sand itself is live with bacteria. As far as the pouch it is nothing more than marine water clarifier. It is not a package of bacteria. You can buy bottles of the stuff online. I did not particularly care for it. Just like the clarifier I use in my pool it foams and forget about having a skimmer on for a while.

Caribsea BioMagnet Clarifier

"Bio-Magnet™ Cloudy aquarium water is caused by fine suspended particles such as algae, silt, and bacteria. These particles usually carry a negative charge as does most filter media. The filter media, therefore, repels these particles, and water can remain continually cloudy. Bio-Magnet™ imparts a positive electrical charg as a bacterial attractant. This unique formula quickly seeks out and encapsulates the suspended particles, enabling the positively charged particles to be drawn to the filter. Particles caught in the filter are broken down by bacteria, and suspended bacteria are repositioned onto strata where they are more efficient. The result? Crystal clear water fast...and a better biological filter!"

NYfishies · 09/09/2014, 11:17 AM

Hello there,

I believe that my question is on topic with this thread and you guys have much more knowledge than I do.

I bought 3 bags of CaribSea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand (20 lbs) when I purchased the equipment for my first tank. I only used about half of the sand, but had already dumped it all out of the original bags. Half of the sand now resides in my DT and the other half in a bucket sitting next to the tank filled with salt water which has evaporated over the past 2 months it has sat there. I have added more water to keep it wet, but other than that the sand has been sitting in still water for 2 months uncovered.

I was so new when I bought the sand (didn't know how much to get) and the limited space I have is the reason it still sits there, but I am worried it is ruined.

I added a pistol shrimp last night and he has made quite the hole to live in so I need to add 5 or 6 cups of sand to fill in some gaps around the live rock.

Is it ok to use my stagnant old sand? Can I clean it at all or no worry?

Thanks for your help!

discocarp · 09/09/2014, 11:21 AM

I'm just happy I'm not the lone BB/LR vote anymore haha!

discocarp · 09/09/2014, 11:25 AM

NYfishies, just drain the 5-6 cups and rinse it well in ro water to flush it. It will be fine.

View Poll Results: Sand and Rock Choices?
Dry sand / Dry rock	20	27.40%
Live sand / Dry rock	23	31.51%
Dry sand / Live rock	25	34.25%
Bare bottom / Dry rock	1	1.37%
Bare bottom / Live rock	8	10.96%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

09/08/2014, 10:04 AM	#1
chill86 Lil baby sand shark Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: east coast Posts: 127	Is live sand in a bag really live? I am starting a couple of new tanks and I will be doing live sand "Caribsea" w/ dry rock in one tank and dry sand and dry rock in the other. I will be using ammonia in both systems, raising it to 3ppm to supply bacteria with the proper nutrients. My goal is to see which tank completes the cycle first to debunk the myth of live sand being rendered useless. I have heard that live sand is now packaged in bags that allow oxygen to enter it helping the bacteria proliferate. I have also heard many people say it is just garbage and a waist of paper. So I will let the test results decide the outcome of the observation in this matter. Has anyone else done a similar observation before? If so please post and compare your results. I am in no way affiliated with, nor do I sell Caribsea products FTR.

09/08/2014, 10:19 AM	#2
coralsnaked Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Austin / Port Aransas, TX Posts: 1,479	Caribsea starts out live but is it still live when you receive it? Hummm...Don't know depends on how it was handled. Sure it is packed wet and vacuum sealed to help keep bacteria alive. But if it sits on a pallet in the back of a freight liner or boxcar for days subjected to extreme heat or cold does it survive? Maybe, maybe not! One thing for sure is there are lots of dead critters in it that will jump start your cycle. PS: Poll does not reflect those who choose another substrate like crushed coral etc... __________________ Merry Skerry Current Tank Info: 1 G Nano jellyfish to 1200 G Bull Nose FOWLR featuring large Holacanthus and Pomacanthus

09/08/2014, 06:05 PM	#10
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	IMHO "live" sand in a bag is a huge waste of money. All you need to seed the sand is a cupful from your LFS or a local reefer. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

09/09/2014, 10:30 AM	#21
madadi ReefOG Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Morton grove, IL Posts: 3,976	I don't like to pay for water so for that reason I always buy dry sand. live or dry rock I have done both with same results. __________________ -~adrian~- LETS TRADE YUMAS Current Tank Info: Glass box.

09/08/2014, 10:35 AM	#3
moulton712 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 34	I had 3 bags of live sand in my garage for over a year. I upgraded tanks and didn't use any of my old sand. I dropped all the sand that was in my garage into the tank after it had been set up for about 3 weeks. Everything lived! I have probably about 4k in corals alone. I have a few tanks running so if i saw anything negative i could pull all live stock. The biggest benefit to live sand vs dead sand is i dont worry about phosphate. I always suggest a ton of live rock and live sand. I use a minimalist aqua scape and throw live rock in the sump.

09/08/2014, 11:20 AM	#5
chill86 Lil baby sand shark Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: east coast Posts: 127	[QUOTE=coralsnaked;23082211]Caribsea starts out live but is it still live when you receive it? Hummm...Don't know depends on how it was handled. Sure it is packed wet and vacuum sealed to help keep bacteria alive. But if it sits on a pallet in the back of a freight liner or boxcar for days subjected to extreme heat or cold does it survive? Maybe, maybe not! One thing for sure is there are lots of dead critters in it that will jump start your cycle. PS: Poll does not reflect those who choose another substrate like crushed coral etc...[/QUOTE Thanks for sharing, those are very important factors when it comes to getting the right so called live "sand in a bag." So it is very important to consider these factors. -Make sure the temperature is in the correct range in both the distributor's and buyers area. -Make sure there are no punctures in the bag. (Look out for dry bags of live sand and punctures in the bag.) If there is water and it does not leak any where, it should be alright. -Look for a expiration date on the bag. Lets replace the word sand with substrate.

09/08/2014, 03:32 PM	#7
zoomonster Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Central Florida Posts: 527	Personally I think the best deal and route is a combo. I used Caribsea Ocean Direct live sand (very little water and a 40# bag was actually 43# to make up for moisture). That's basically sugar sand so three bags went in followed by three 40# bags of Caribsea seafloor special grade dry sand. That together and it all (for the most part) stays put with high flow. F&S was cheaper than anything local, no tax and I bought enough for free shipping. The UPS guy was a little perturbed because they sent 6 bags in six oversized boxes. On top of all that probably 200+# of old dead rock and another 50# of live rock. BTW the live rock was added a couple weeks later and the live sand was enough for a first cycle.

09/08/2014, 03:59 PM	#8
CuzzA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 2,997	Whether it's alive or not it's worth it to me to not have to spend the time to clean dry sand. I guess sometimes it comes down to how much you value your time.

09/08/2014, 05:32 PM	#9
PRSPLYR Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 91	What about live sand/live rock? I dont see that option in your poll.....

09/08/2014, 07:19 PM	#12
kendrid Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Lake in the hills, IL Posts: 806	The live sand I used had some worms in it that we're crawling around. It must have been fresh.

09/08/2014, 08:35 PM	#14
2_zoa Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,840	Any live sand I've ever used Carbisea had a bacteria pouch in it. Is the bacteria in the pouch still live? Held in a, "on hold state"? The bags I've bought have all had use by dates on them.

09/08/2014, 10:49 PM	#15
scott71 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Fort Worth Texas Posts: 51	Live sand is worth the money. Use Caribsea and you will benefit. Not a waste of $$

09/09/2014, 10:23 AM	#18
chill86 Lil baby sand shark Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: east coast Posts: 127	Good point Cuzza, I cant stand washing sand, especially in the winter time.

09/09/2014, 10:25 AM	#19
chill86 Lil baby sand shark Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: east coast Posts: 127	Hey Kendrid, are you talking about live sand from a fellow reefer or in a bag?

09/09/2014, 10:29 AM	#20
chill86 Lil baby sand shark Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: east coast Posts: 127	2 Zoa, I think I have a extra packet of the Bio magnet clarifier. I wonder what it looks like under the microscope?

09/09/2014, 10:51 AM	#22
zoomonster Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Central Florida Posts: 527	At least with the Caribsea Ocean Direct the sand itself is live with bacteria. As far as the pouch it is nothing more than marine water clarifier. It is not a package of bacteria. You can buy bottles of the stuff online. I did not particularly care for it. Just like the clarifier I use in my pool it foams and forget about having a skimmer on for a while. Caribsea BioMagnet Clarifier "Bio-Magnet™ Cloudy aquarium water is caused by fine suspended particles such as algae, silt, and bacteria. These particles usually carry a negative charge as does most filter media. The filter media, therefore, repels these particles, and water can remain continually cloudy. Bio-Magnet™ imparts a positive electrical charg as a bacterial attractant. This unique formula quickly seeks out and encapsulates the suspended particles, enabling the positively charged particles to be drawn to the filter. Particles caught in the filter are broken down by bacteria, and suspended bacteria are repositioned onto strata where they are more efficient. The result? Crystal clear water fast...and a better biological filter!"

09/09/2014, 11:17 AM	#23
NYfishies Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Manhattan Posts: 8	Hello there, I believe that my question is on topic with this thread and you guys have much more knowledge than I do. I bought 3 bags of CaribSea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand (20 lbs) when I purchased the equipment for my first tank. I only used about half of the sand, but had already dumped it all out of the original bags. Half of the sand now resides in my DT and the other half in a bucket sitting next to the tank filled with salt water which has evaporated over the past 2 months it has sat there. I have added more water to keep it wet, but other than that the sand has been sitting in still water for 2 months uncovered. I was so new when I bought the sand (didn't know how much to get) and the limited space I have is the reason it still sits there, but I am worried it is ruined. I added a pistol shrimp last night and he has made quite the hole to live in so I need to add 5 or 6 cups of sand to fill in some gaps around the live rock. Is it ok to use my stagnant old sand? Can I clean it at all or no worry? Thanks for your help!

09/09/2014, 11:21 AM	#24
discocarp Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 2,707	I'm just happy I'm not the lone BB/LR vote anymore haha!

09/09/2014, 11:25 AM	#25
discocarp Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 2,707	NYfishies, just drain the 5-6 cups and rinse it well in ro water to flush it. It will be fine.