Can tank support a mandarin already?

[Zer0.]

Hey guys, I have a fairly new 180 gallon tank set up. It has about a 1.5 inch substrate of sand and 160 lbs of rock with a 40 breeder sump with currently only rock in the refugium section (going to add chaeto but have had trouble finding any locally). My tank so far only has some zoas, hermits, emeralds, cleaner shrimp, and assorted snails. No fish currently although I do have a pair of occ. clowns in QT. Any ways the tank is young at only about 2.5 months old but is absolutely packed with copepods. There are so many it looks like micro bubbles in the water column with them all flying around and there are probably literally a thousand on the front glass plane alone.

My question is would this be enough to support a mandarin long term? I would never be adding any wrasse or anything else that feed on copepods.

Thanks for any advise. I love mandarins but would not want one to starve after a month or so.

[slief]

The pod population is great but in my experience, Mandarins are really tough fish to keep successfully and generally need a well established system to thrive. I've only recently had success with them and my tank has been up and running for over 10 years.

That said, you don't have much of a load so you shouldn't see any major spikes but I just worry about the tanks stability and chemistry given that it's so new. Given what you say about your pod population. I suppose it's worth a try despite the fact that long term success with one isn't in your favor.

[Zer0.]

All my params have been good and stable for a while now. Have a good ATO salinity stays rock solid at 1.025 (34 ppt) alk. Stays around 9.5 temp stays a stead 78 degrees DC pump and led lights so they don't fluctuate temp. Nitrates are about 15-20, in the process of slowly bringing them down.

Any certain issues/parameters they seemed sensitive to in particular?

Thanks for your insight

[kegogut]

Mandarin can eat well over 500 pods a day. You should wait until your more established for a mandarin. I tried the exact thing your wanting to do and the mandarin was fine for a couple months then starved to death.

[Zer0.]

So is the thought that they repopulate more or faster in an older tank? Just trying to understand why the age of the tank has to do with stability of copepod population. Number wise I don't think there could be more...it's honestly a bit of an eye sore there are so many on the glass and in the water column.

But if its not a good idea I'll def. hold up. Not one of the ppl that ask for advise when their minds are already made up

[kegogut]

You could get one and buy pods to replenish your tank every couple weeks.

[Zer0.]

Originally Posted by kegogut

Mandarin can eat well over 500 pods a day. You should wait until your more established for a mandarin. I tried the exact thing your wanting to do and the mandarin was fine for a couple months then starved to death.

Was this in the 225 gallon tank listed in your Sig?

And yeah would be ideal not to have to buy pods. I hear that can get pretty expensive.

[kw22]

I would wait 9-12 months on any setup before adding a mandarin.Adding some pods every now and again is helpful.

[fishhuman]

Mandarins eat 3 pods a minute at the least, a healthy fat mandarin should be eating 5 a minute so that means at least 4320 pods in a day. Men vision each pod as a rice grain and then picture a human trying to live off them.

[snorvich]

Replenishment strategies usually fail. That being said, when your tank is 9 months mature, it should support a pair of mandarins easily assuming no major copepod consumers. Copepod piles also add value even to tanks this size. While my tank is larger, and more mature, keeping mandarins (that are initially healthy as opposed to cyanide captured) under the proper conditions is easy.

[richiero]

At least a year before you add one IMO

[kegogut]

Originally Posted by Zer0.

Was this in the 225 gallon tank listed in your Sig?

And yeah would be ideal not to have to buy pods. I hear that can get pretty expensive.

No,this was in a 120 with a 30g sump.

[lutz123]

My experience is that there is often an explosion in a new tank, but it eventually subsides without anything eating it. It doesn't stabilize for at least six months (again, in my experience). I always find that having macroalgae in the tank helps. I would wait. They are voracious eaters.

[AquariumNut]

I kept one in a 25 gallon no problem for 2 years then he got stuck in a rock . I waited 6 months after set-up

[fishchef]

I was on the same track as you with my 125. About 50% of my LR and water came from a smaller well established system, lots of pods. We even bought pods and seeded the system in addition. The mandarin did not survive and even though some of the LR was mature we possibly had a problem with stability. This caused all my new fish to stress and some were lost, never really was able to pinpoint the cause just observation. I read a few years ago that mandarins were considered endangered and should not be in the hobby because of demand paired with the lack of success in captivity. We've never tried again. When you read that someone was able to keep one for two years that's not very long. Some of my fish are 10+ years old.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by fishchef

I was on the same track as you with my 125. About 50% of my LR and water came from a smaller well established system, lots of pods. We even bought pods and seeded the system in addition. The mandarin did not survive and even though some of the LR was mature we possibly had a problem with stability. This caused all my new fish to stress and some were lost, never really was able to pinpoint the cause just observation. I read a few years ago that mandarins were considered endangered and should not be in the hobby because of demand paired with the lack of success in captivity. We've never tried again. When you read that someone was able to keep one for two years that's not very long. Some of my fish are 10+ years old.

My mating pair is at least five years old (because I have had them that long)

[Reefer PT]

I have a spotted mandarin that I observed eating frozen food (cyclops and small Mysis) in the LFS so i thought he would be ok. So far so good, he continues to eat frozen food as well as the pods in the tank and doesn't not appear thin. My tank is about a year old. So maybe if you can find one that will eat prepared food in the LFS.
Dave

[AquariumNut]

I kept for 2 years Yes thats not that long but it wouldn't survive that long if it didn't have food . you can slowly train them to take frozen foods it just takes alot of patients . Ive not done that I usually just let it do its own thing . I'll be getting one once my biocube is well established with pods . And ill be training it to eat frozen foods this time around

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Reefer PT

I have a spotted mandarin that I observed eating frozen food (cyclops and small Mysis) in the LFS so i thought he would be ok. So far so good, he continues to eat frozen food as well as the pods in the tank and doesn't not appear thin. My tank is about a year old. So maybe if you can find one that will eat prepared food in the LFS.
Dave

All will eat frozen. However, the vast majority of their sustenance comes from copepods since they eat constantly and aquarists feed infrequently by comparison. 75 gallons with no copepod competitors should keep one going for a long time. Smaller tanks may result in longer term starvation.

[fishchef]

Glad to hear about all the success! I've been in the Reef Hobby since '91 and there's many corals/fish/inverts that were considered to be almost impossible to keep then. We've come a long way. Guess I'm a bit gun shy. We try to stay with what we've had success with or experience sometimes. I hate losen' pets.

[MondoBongo]

i would wait. in a tank that new pods will tend to go through boom and bust cycles. it is best to allow everything to settle in, have you algae battles, etc... before going with a specialized feeder like a mandy.

as others have said, under the right conditions they're no fuss fish, but getting to, and keeping, those conditions can be tricky for new tanks.

i would (and in fact did) wait at least a year before getting one.

your patience will be rewarded.

[Rob6311]

Why are some of the most beautiful and awesome looking fish some of the hardest to keep? Lol

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by Rob6311

Why are some of the most beautiful and awesome looking fish some of the hardest to keep? Lol

And there is the undulated trigger which is gorgeous and easy to keep. By itself. And then you get into cousins of the mandarins such as fingered dragonet and the choati leopard wrasse which are both challenging to say the least.

[tanksfishtank]

You need to wait at least a year before adding a MG. They water quality will still fluctuate while bacteria continues to populate the tank, and this will stress the MG out. So even if there are enough pods, the MG wont eat any way. Good Luck!