temporary classroom touch tank

cpm209 · 09/22/2014, 03:21 PM

Hey all! I just moved to the northern California coast. I'm teaching an after school animal program at an elementary school and was hoping to do some type of sea creature day (being that we're on the coast). So my question to you all is if it is possible that I could go collect say a few sea anemones, crabs, and maybe a starfish and house them in buckets or a small tank and have them live in them for say a 12 hours without any monitoring care needed.
Thanks!

woodnaquanut · 09/22/2014, 06:21 PM

First, check if collection is legal.

Second, without circulation and cooling there might be problems. Biggest issue might be anemones. They are more delicate than crabs and sea stars.

Where in N. Ca are you?

uncleof6 · 09/22/2014, 07:27 PM

Thanks woody, I did not really want to be first to go into the physical/biological ramifications of Cnidarians in a bucket, nor the legalities of collecting even the sand from California coastal waters from where the beach starts (usually the parking lot,) to 20NM out to sea...

Anemones raise an ethical question as well, considering they are under threat, due to the ever expanding global market for them, and the wholesale slaughter of them by well intentioned reef hobbyists, since the release of the movie Finding Nemo. Granted you don't find tropical reef dwellers in Northern California coastal waters... Anemones can be kept alive in pristine conditions, but among the Cnidarians, only the jellys are more difficult to keep alive.

I am thinking Steinhart Aquarium in Golden Gate Park and/or San Francisco's Aquarium of the Bay at Fisherman's Warf, both might be a great alternative, or the Monteray Bay Aquarium, one of the finest in the nation, if any is within a reasonable distance, or even a slightly unreasonable distance...

IanWR · 09/22/2014, 07:40 PM

I'm not sure a touch tank for kids is a great idea. I know some zoos/aquariums used to do tide pool touch tanks (some may still, I just haven't been in years). But I would worry about the well being of whatever you pluck from the sea, plus the well being of the kiddies. For the former, the harvesting and transport process is stressful at the best of times let alone combined with being manhandled. If you are ok with the sea critters dieing, then that concern is moot. As for the kids, depending what you collect they may face some risks. Shells, pincers, fish spines and teeth can all cause cuts and scratches. The risk of infection (let alone paly toxin poisoning if you collect something interesting) is not certain but very possible.

I applaud your desire for hands on teaching, but perhaps that could be accomplished with shells, bones, and possibly someones nano tank that the kids could see. Maybe a lfs would host a tour , or a local reefer with an impressive setup.

Good luck!

uncleof6 · 09/22/2014, 08:31 PM

Adding to the above: Cnidarians have stinging cells. Amply demonstrated by jellyfish, however Anemomes also sting. Though the sting of anemones is usually harmless, there are very toxic specimans whose venom is a mix of toxins and neurotoxins, that can cause serious injuries and can be fatal. This is in addition to palytoxin which is actually one of the most lethal non-peptide substance known, second only to maitotoxin. (in rats anyway) However, the most common route of palytoxin poisoning in humans is by ingestion, and the action of the toxin is swift and death follows quickly; there are several avenues of exposure, and the LD50 differs with differing routes of exposure. The dreaded limu-make-o-hana ...that is actually a soft coral (Walsh and Bowers 1971,) and palytoxin is most associated with certain marine species, though spreads by accumulation, and ovatoxin-a a marine aerosol produced by the tropical microalga, the dinoflagellate Ostreopsis ovata caused hundreds of poisonings in Geneoa, Italy, in 2005 and 2006. However, the palytoxin poisoning worries are a bit exaggerated in general, though very real.

cpm209 · 09/22/2014, 11:59 PM

I'm in Arcata, CA.
I know this one beach that has certain restrictions on what you can and cannot take (but supposedly you are allowed to collect certain things). I am looking into that more.

I had the idea because the marine lab by us has one and I thought it was the coolest thing. I'd never touched, let alone got close to, anything like them before. I thought it would be a cool way to give kids the same experience, but maybe its not as easy as I thought...you all brought up good points. And I definitely don't want anything to die.

Thanks for your help, I think I'll have to re-think this plan...

uncleof6 · 09/23/2014, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpm209

I'm in Arcata, CA.
I know this one beach that has certain restrictions on what you can and cannot take (but supposedly you are allowed to collect certain things). I am looking into that more.

I had the idea because the marine lab by us has one and I thought it was the coolest thing. I'd never touched, let alone got close to, anything like them before. I thought it would be a cool way to give kids the same experience, but maybe its not as easy as I thought...you all brought up good points. And I definitely don't want anything to die.

Thanks for your help, I think I'll have to re-think this plan...

Been years since I was up that far north, doesn't Humbolt have a marine program?

woodnaquanut · 09/23/2014, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpm209

I'm in Arcata, CA.
I know this one beach that has certain restrictions on what you can and cannot take (but supposedly you are allowed to collect certain things). I am looking into that more.

I had the idea because the marine lab by us has one and I thought it was the coolest thing. I'd never touched, let alone got close to, anything like them before. I thought it would be a cool way to give kids the same experience, but maybe its not as easy as I thought...you all brought up good points. And I definitely don't want anything to die.

Thanks for your help, I think I'll have to re-think this plan...

Perhaps you could contact the local resources and see if they have any outreach programs? They might bring the touch tank to you.

Failing that, perhaps they could give you some advise as to doing it yourself.

Soil · 09/23/2014, 10:14 AM

Nice

09/22/2014, 03:21 PM	#1
cpm209 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 2	temporary classroom touch tank Hey all! I just moved to the northern California coast. I'm teaching an after school animal program at an elementary school and was hoping to do some type of sea creature day (being that we're on the coast). So my question to you all is if it is possible that I could go collect say a few sea anemones, crabs, and maybe a starfish and house them in buckets or a small tank and have them live in them for say a 12 hours without any monitoring care needed. Thanks!

09/22/2014, 06:21 PM	#2
woodnaquanut Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 2,727	First, check if collection is legal. Second, without circulation and cooling there might be problems. Biggest issue might be anemones. They are more delicate than crabs and sea stars. Where in N. Ca are you? __________________ John DT 120G. mixed reef w/ lots of automation + assorted FW and SW tanks.

09/22/2014, 07:27 PM	#3
uncleof6 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: AWOL Posts: 12,013	Thanks woody, I did not really want to be first to go into the physical/biological ramifications of Cnidarians in a bucket, nor the legalities of collecting even the sand from California coastal waters from where the beach starts (usually the parking lot,) to 20NM out to sea... Anemones raise an ethical question as well, considering they are under threat, due to the ever expanding global market for them, and the wholesale slaughter of them by well intentioned reef hobbyists, since the release of the movie Finding Nemo. Granted you don't find tropical reef dwellers in Northern California coastal waters... Anemones can be kept alive in pristine conditions, but among the Cnidarians, only the jellys are more difficult to keep alive. I am thinking Steinhart Aquarium in Golden Gate Park and/or San Francisco's Aquarium of the Bay at Fisherman's Warf, both might be a great alternative, or the Monteray Bay Aquarium, one of the finest in the nation, if any is within a reasonable distance, or even a slightly unreasonable distance... __________________ "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef

09/22/2014, 08:31 PM	#5
uncleof6 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: AWOL Posts: 12,013	Adding to the above: Cnidarians have stinging cells. Amply demonstrated by jellyfish, however Anemomes also sting. Though the sting of anemones is usually harmless, there are very toxic specimans whose venom is a mix of toxins and neurotoxins, that can cause serious injuries and can be fatal. This is in addition to palytoxin which is actually one of the most lethal non-peptide substance known, second only to maitotoxin. (in rats anyway) However, the most common route of palytoxin poisoning in humans is by ingestion, and the action of the toxin is swift and death follows quickly; there are several avenues of exposure, and the LD50 differs with differing routes of exposure. The dreaded limu-make-o-hana ...that is actually a soft coral (Walsh and Bowers 1971,) and palytoxin is most associated with certain marine species, though spreads by accumulation, and ovatoxin-a a marine aerosol produced by the tropical microalga, the dinoflagellate Ostreopsis ovata caused hundreds of poisonings in Geneoa, Italy, in 2005 and 2006. However, the palytoxin poisoning worries are a bit exaggerated in general, though very real. __________________ "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef

09/22/2014, 07:40 PM	#4
IanWR Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: SK, Canada Posts: 214	I'm not sure a touch tank for kids is a great idea. I know some zoos/aquariums used to do tide pool touch tanks (some may still, I just haven't been in years). But I would worry about the well being of whatever you pluck from the sea, plus the well being of the kiddies. For the former, the harvesting and transport process is stressful at the best of times let alone combined with being manhandled. If you are ok with the sea critters dieing, then that concern is moot. As for the kids, depending what you collect they may face some risks. Shells, pincers, fish spines and teeth can all cause cuts and scratches. The risk of infection (let alone paly toxin poisoning if you collect something interesting) is not certain but very possible. I applaud your desire for hands on teaching, but perhaps that could be accomplished with shells, bones, and possibly someones nano tank that the kids could see. Maybe a lfs would host a tour , or a local reefer with an impressive setup. Good luck!

09/22/2014, 11:59 PM	#6
cpm209 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 2	I'm in Arcata, CA. I know this one beach that has certain restrictions on what you can and cannot take (but supposedly you are allowed to collect certain things). I am looking into that more. I had the idea because the marine lab by us has one and I thought it was the coolest thing. I'd never touched, let alone got close to, anything like them before. I thought it would be a cool way to give kids the same experience, but maybe its not as easy as I thought...you all brought up good points. And I definitely don't want anything to die. Thanks for your help, I think I'll have to re-think this plan...

09/23/2014, 10:14 AM	#9
Soil Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 34	Nice