Help with Two Part Solution

Straightguy · 11/08/2014, 01:31 PM

Hi all,

I am a longtime lurker who finally decided to post so I can tap into the collective wisdom here. I started my two part solution system a few months ago, as my kalkwasser additions no longer kept up with my growing coral collection. I automated the two part a month ago (before that I was doing it manually, as I was having issues with my Reefkeeper Elite head unit). I currently use Dowflake Calcium chloride and baking soda solution, dosed using BRS peristaltic pumps.

After some tweaking I found that dosing both CaCl and Alk solution for 36 minutes per day (split into four doses per day) gave me stable readings of 400-420 for Calcium and 7.5-8.5 dKH for Alk. Unfortunately a couple of my colonies started STN-ing. I checked the parameters again and I found the Alk started climbing over 9 dKH for no apparent reason. Yesterday I stopped adding Alk solution altogether, in the hope to let it fall naturally. I left the Kalkwasser dosing unchanged, i.e it keeps up with evaporation. This morning the Ca was at 440 and the Alk was 9.6dKH!

I can't make sense of this: I repeated the readings, tested for Mg which I found to be 1480. It doesn't make sense! I need some HELP!

Tank stats:

- 3 ft cube (150 gal) mixed display tank.
- Sump: approx 30 gal
- Skimmer: RLSS 6i
- Refugium: 55 gallon inline refugium full of cheato and live rock. Crawling with pods
- Corals: combo of SPS and LPS. Mostly small to medium frags.
- 10 Fish: 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Harlequin Tusk, 1 Copperband Butterfly, 1 Anthia, 1 Tamarin Wrasse, 1 Cleaner Wrasse, 2 Percula Clowns, 2 cleaner shrimp
- Params: undetectable nitrates and phoshates
- Reactors: ROWAphos, Biopellets, Kalk stirrer dosed via BRS dosing pump to keep up with evaporation

The tank was set up in April, when I upgraded and transferred all the live rock and corals from the 55 gallon that is now the refugium.

I started a tank journal on Canreef, which I sadly neglected:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...=107802&page=2

Straightguy · 11/14/2014, 08:40 PM

Anybody?...

edinphilly · 11/14/2014, 08:57 PM

You may want to try the chemistry section. Those guys know this stuff.

Straightguy · 11/14/2014, 10:00 PM

Can a mod please move this to the "SPS Keepers" section?

kurt_n · 11/15/2014, 12:08 AM

Nothing really jumps out at me, except for the fact that your 36 minutes of dosing is only split into 4 doses. Seems like 9 minutes of continuous dosing is a lot and could possibly be leading to some pH swings that could possibly/maybe be causing the issues with the corals?

As far as the increase in the alkalinity, I'm not thinking that 9.5 dkh versus 7.5 dkh is really that big of a deal. Yes, your alk is increasing but it's not abnormally high, in my opinion. Same goes with your magnesium... it's just a tad higher than you'd expect, but not abnormal.

Personally, I'd break up that dosing into hourly doses during the evening hours, or whenever your lights are off. See if that doesn't improve things. Other than that, I can't really see anything wrong.

DiscusHeckel · 11/15/2014, 08:35 AM

Assuming that your testing is correct, I can attribute the rise in both calcium and alkalinity levels to the fact that the consumption in your tank has dropped because coral growth has started to slow down (or stopped) unless of course your doser pumps dose more liquids than needed. You normally observe the opposite when you feed your corals and/or improve water and light conditions.

Regarding STN, there are many causes. Is it possible that biopellets in conjunction with GFO are starving your corals? Do you have good polyp extension on them? Have you got a picture of your corals?

Straightguy · 11/15/2014, 09:39 AM

Thanks DiscusHeckel. I do have pretty good polyp extension. Besides, the GFO/biopellets combo has been on this tank since April. What I'm saying is the Biopellet/GFO combo pre-dates the dosing system. Unfortunately, I don't have any recent pictures.

Update: I read on some forums that carbon dosing (biopellets) require alkalinity in the natural seawater range (7-8). So, on Nov 10 I took my Kalk and Alkalinty dosing completely offline. Over 4days, the alkalinity dropped to the desired range (7.6 dKH this morning). I am still adding the CaCl2 solution, so I am maintaining Ca levels to 410-430 range. Since my last entry I noticed several other SPS colonies have started STN-ing from the base up, and the ones already STN-in are getting worse.

11/08/2014, 01:31 PM	#1
Straightguy Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 8	Help with Two Part Solution Hi all, I am a longtime lurker who finally decided to post so I can tap into the collective wisdom here. I started my two part solution system a few months ago, as my kalkwasser additions no longer kept up with my growing coral collection. I automated the two part a month ago (before that I was doing it manually, as I was having issues with my Reefkeeper Elite head unit). I currently use Dowflake Calcium chloride and baking soda solution, dosed using BRS peristaltic pumps. After some tweaking I found that dosing both CaCl and Alk solution for 36 minutes per day (split into four doses per day) gave me stable readings of 400-420 for Calcium and 7.5-8.5 dKH for Alk. Unfortunately a couple of my colonies started STN-ing. I checked the parameters again and I found the Alk started climbing over 9 dKH for no apparent reason. Yesterday I stopped adding Alk solution altogether, in the hope to let it fall naturally. I left the Kalkwasser dosing unchanged, i.e it keeps up with evaporation. This morning the Ca was at 440 and the Alk was 9.6dKH! I can't make sense of this: I repeated the readings, tested for Mg which I found to be 1480. It doesn't make sense! I need some HELP! Tank stats: - 3 ft cube (150 gal) mixed display tank. - Sump: approx 30 gal - Skimmer: RLSS 6i - Refugium: 55 gallon inline refugium full of cheato and live rock. Crawling with pods - Corals: combo of SPS and LPS. Mostly small to medium frags. - 10 Fish: 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Harlequin Tusk, 1 Copperband Butterfly, 1 Anthia, 1 Tamarin Wrasse, 1 Cleaner Wrasse, 2 Percula Clowns, 2 cleaner shrimp - Params: undetectable nitrates and phoshates - Reactors: ROWAphos, Biopellets, Kalk stirrer dosed via BRS dosing pump to keep up with evaporation The tank was set up in April, when I upgraded and transferred all the live rock and corals from the 55 gallon that is now the refugium. I started a tank journal on Canreef, which I sadly neglected: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...=107802&page=2

11/15/2014, 08:35 AM	#6
DiscusHeckel Acropora Gardener Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 2,780	Assuming that your testing is correct, I can attribute the rise in both calcium and alkalinity levels to the fact that the consumption in your tank has dropped because coral growth has started to slow down (or stopped) unless of course your doser pumps dose more liquids than needed. You normally observe the opposite when you feed your corals and/or improve water and light conditions. Regarding STN, there are many causes. Is it possible that biopellets in conjunction with GFO are starving your corals? Do you have good polyp extension on them? Have you got a picture of your corals? __________________ Featured Tank OCT 2016 \| "Reef Hobbyist Magazine" TOTM OCT 2016 \| "Ultimate Reef", UK FB \| "/troutsReefTank/" 65G SPS Reef- ATI 8 X 39W PM; TM [Bacto-Balance A-; Reef Actif; Nitribiotic; Iodine]

11/14/2014, 08:40 PM	#2
Straightguy Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 8	Anybody?...

11/14/2014, 08:57 PM	#3
edinphilly Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 333	You may want to try the chemistry section. Those guys know this stuff.

11/14/2014, 10:00 PM	#4
Straightguy Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 8	Can a mod please move this to the "SPS Keepers" section?

11/15/2014, 12:08 AM	#5
kurt_n Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: WA Posts: 2,592	Nothing really jumps out at me, except for the fact that your 36 minutes of dosing is only split into 4 doses. Seems like 9 minutes of continuous dosing is a lot and could possibly be leading to some pH swings that could possibly/maybe be causing the issues with the corals? As far as the increase in the alkalinity, I'm not thinking that 9.5 dkh versus 7.5 dkh is really that big of a deal. Yes, your alk is increasing but it's not abnormally high, in my opinion. Same goes with your magnesium... it's just a tad higher than you'd expect, but not abnormal. Personally, I'd break up that dosing into hourly doses during the evening hours, or whenever your lights are off. See if that doesn't improve things. Other than that, I can't really see anything wrong.

11/15/2014, 09:39 AM	#7
Straightguy Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 8	Thanks DiscusHeckel. I do have pretty good polyp extension. Besides, the GFO/biopellets combo has been on this tank since April. What I'm saying is the Biopellet/GFO combo pre-dates the dosing system. Unfortunately, I don't have any recent pictures. Update: I read on some forums that carbon dosing (biopellets) require alkalinity in the natural seawater range (7-8). So, on Nov 10 I took my Kalk and Alkalinty dosing completely offline. Over 4days, the alkalinity dropped to the desired range (7.6 dKH this morning). I am still adding the CaCl2 solution, so I am maintaining Ca levels to 410-430 range. Since my last entry I noticed several other SPS colonies have started STN-ing from the base up, and the ones already STN-in are getting worse.