Input requested: Oversized heater

jam583 · 11/26/2014, 08:03 AM

I was fed up with the temp fluctuations on my tank. I had a 300W heater and another smaller one and once the temp dropped it struggled to heat up. The room where tank is stays around 65'. Keep in mind, this is the entryway of the house, huge ceilings, all windows, and the door about 10 feet away. Naturally, with it's 20' outside and someone comes in it gets chilly.

I did a lot of research and picked up a Catalina Titanium heater, 1000W, without the built in controller.

Yikes, 1000W? It's big for the tank, about 130 total gallons, I know.

I have 2 temp probes plugged into Apex and control this via the apex. Kicks on ta 78.5 and off at 79. It doesn't run that long and seems (over the past day) to do a great job.

Now, I've read a lot of people say "never install a larger heater". I understand the risk of a temp sensor going and things getting cooked. I have 2 probes, so that is a risk I guess I must run. I also have a home automation temp sensor in tank, which e-mails me (outside of apex) so I guess I have 3 temp sensors on tank.

Any other risks I should consider? Is this really the only drawback?

My theory was oversize heater, can keep temps in check easier, won't run constantly but kick on, do it's job, and kick off.

Thoughts?

vette.tech · 11/26/2014, 08:05 AM

Personally, and I think most will agree, going with multiple smaller heaters is the way to go, that way if one fails either way (on or off) it's not going to be that big of an issue. I run three undersized heaters myself

jam583 · 11/26/2014, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vette.tech

Personally, and I think most will agree, going with multiple smaller heaters is the way to go, that way if one fails either way (on or off) it's not going to be that big of an issue. I run three undersized heaters myself

Yes, I started with 2 heaters. I found it just wasn't doing what I wanted. So I went with this bigger monster. I see the points both ways, just curious if having a heater much larger is really that big of an issue if you have checks in place.

Breadman03 · 11/26/2014, 08:25 AM

I did something similar. Most of the year, I use two, 300 watt heaters, but I need to keep a 1,000 watt element in the tank during the winter. During the winter, the 300x2 stay on and the 1,000 watt element cycles on and off. I need to get my basement insulated.

ca1ore · 11/26/2014, 08:43 AM

Although heaters are typically 'sized' based on tank volume, the actual requirement is driven by water volume and the level above ambient that the heater must maintain. For a 120 in a room kept at 70 degrees, a 300 watt heater would suffice and something bigger would be oversized; in your case, with ambient nominally at 65 degrees, a larger heater wouldn't necessarily be oversized. 1,000 watts is a lot, just make sure to have provisions in place to handle if it gets stuck (sounds like you have).

Ironically, I had a tank crash years ago because while I was on vacation my house boiler failed, and ambient fell to 45 degrees. I had heater capacity on the tank to maintain water temperature at about 20 degrees above ambient, but not 35. Tank temp was in the low 60s and all my corals were toast. So, now when I go on vacation in the winter, I add another heater just in case.

cordell · 11/26/2014, 08:47 AM

One problem with such a big heater is having the Apex outlet kick on and off so often (because it heats the water faster to your max temp), and especially with such a high load on it. Maybe it isn't a problem at all, but I'd be worried that it would wear out that outlet faster. Also, your temps may bounce up and down within your range several times per day, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if the range is small enough.

Couple things that I'm sure you've already done...
1. Make sure the temp on the heater itself is set just barely above the Apex max temp, so it will turn itself off if the Apex sticks on somehow.

2. Make sure you have that monster plugged into one of the relay outlets on your Apex. The triacs would scream for mercy with that heater

3. Make sure the location of all of your temp sensors is not in an area that can become "dry" if, say, your ATO stopped working or some other pump stopped working and water levels changed from the usual.

jam583 · 11/26/2014, 08:52 AM

All great feedback. In the summer, heater never is used due to all the windows. Home gets a lot of sun. So, this baby really is only for the winter.

I have fallbacks set on the Apex. I have 2 apex temp probes. One located in first chamber in sump and second probe in second chamber. Water level, even if ATO was to dump would ensure it' submerged. Outside of Apex, I have an insteon home automation temp probe set to email as well, in display tank. So, 3 probes bascially, 2 systems.

The heater is plugged into one of the larger outlets on the Apex .. so far, no issues.

So, it sees, with the failovers I have, things should be ok ..

jda · 11/26/2014, 10:11 AM

What is protecting a outlet failure on the apex? ...or an apex failure?

Most people who want dual safety have one on heater as well.

Yam · 11/26/2014, 08:34 PM

I'd also double check that the circuit the heater is plugged into will not be overloaded. Max wattage on a 15A breaker is 1800W, and shouldn't operate 1440W (80%) continuously.

jam583 · 11/26/2014, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yam

I'd also double check that the circuit the heater is plugged into will not be overloaded. Max wattage on a 15A breaker is 1800W, and shouldn't operate 1440W (80%) continuously.

It's my understanding max amps on a 120V outlet is 15AMPS, or 1800 watts as you mention. At max, I'm at 11 amps. So, I should be pretty good and heater is running far less.

Yam · 11/27/2014, 05:40 AM

I meant you shouldn't operate at more than 1440W or 12A continuously on a 15A breaker. You probably also took this into account, but other items like general lighting may also be on the same circuit breaker also. Sounds like you're good to go. Good luck.

11/26/2014, 08:03 AM	#1
jam583 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Phoenix, MD Posts: 260	Input requested: Oversized heater I was fed up with the temp fluctuations on my tank. I had a 300W heater and another smaller one and once the temp dropped it struggled to heat up. The room where tank is stays around 65'. Keep in mind, this is the entryway of the house, huge ceilings, all windows, and the door about 10 feet away. Naturally, with it's 20' outside and someone comes in it gets chilly. I did a lot of research and picked up a Catalina Titanium heater, 1000W, without the built in controller. Yikes, 1000W? It's big for the tank, about 130 total gallons, I know. I have 2 temp probes plugged into Apex and control this via the apex. Kicks on ta 78.5 and off at 79. It doesn't run that long and seems (over the past day) to do a great job. Now, I've read a lot of people say "never install a larger heater". I understand the risk of a temp sensor going and things getting cooked. I have 2 probes, so that is a risk I guess I must run. I also have a home automation temp sensor in tank, which e-mails me (outside of apex) so I guess I have 3 temp sensors on tank. Any other risks I should consider? Is this really the only drawback? My theory was oversize heater, can keep temps in check easier, won't run constantly but kick on, do it's job, and kick off. Thoughts?

11/26/2014, 08:43 AM	#5
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Although heaters are typically 'sized' based on tank volume, the actual requirement is driven by water volume and the level above ambient that the heater must maintain. For a 120 in a room kept at 70 degrees, a 300 watt heater would suffice and something bigger would be oversized; in your case, with ambient nominally at 65 degrees, a larger heater wouldn't necessarily be oversized. 1,000 watts is a lot, just make sure to have provisions in place to handle if it gets stuck (sounds like you have). Ironically, I had a tank crash years ago because while I was on vacation my house boiler failed, and ambient fell to 45 degrees. I had heater capacity on the tank to maintain water temperature at about 20 degrees above ambient, but not 35. Tank temp was in the low 60s and all my corals were toast. So, now when I go on vacation in the winter, I add another heater just in case. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

11/26/2014, 08:47 AM	#6
cordell Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Monroe, LA Posts: 655	One problem with such a big heater is having the Apex outlet kick on and off so often (because it heats the water faster to your max temp), and especially with such a high load on it. Maybe it isn't a problem at all, but I'd be worried that it would wear out that outlet faster. Also, your temps may bounce up and down within your range several times per day, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if the range is small enough. Couple things that I'm sure you've already done... 1. Make sure the temp on the heater itself is set just barely above the Apex max temp, so it will turn itself off if the Apex sticks on somehow. 2. Make sure you have that monster plugged into one of the relay outlets on your Apex. The triacs would scream for mercy with that heater 3. Make sure the location of all of your temp sensors is not in an area that can become "dry" if, say, your ATO stopped working or some other pump stopped working and water levels changed from the usual. __________________ 75gal, ~120lb LR, started January 15, 2012. Probably mixed tank, only softies and couple LPS now. (2) 250w MH, 10g sump, 10g fuge, 10g QT Current inhabitants: 2 Ocellaris Clowns, few nassarius, cerith, and nerites; QT: Tricolor Wrasse and Firefish (both added 4/11)

11/26/2014, 08:05 AM	#2
vette.tech Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Lansdale, PA Posts: 367	Personally, and I think most will agree, going with multiple smaller heaters is the way to go, that way if one fails either way (on or off) it's not going to be that big of an issue. I run three undersized heaters myself

11/26/2014, 08:25 AM	#4
Breadman03 New Old School Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Luzerne County, PA Posts: 3,293	I did something similar. Most of the year, I use two, 300 watt heaters, but I need to keep a 1,000 watt element in the tank during the winter. During the winter, the 300x2 stay on and the 1,000 watt element cycles on and off. I need to get my basement insulated.

11/26/2014, 08:52 AM	#7
jam583 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Phoenix, MD Posts: 260	All great feedback. In the summer, heater never is used due to all the windows. Home gets a lot of sun. So, this baby really is only for the winter. I have fallbacks set on the Apex. I have 2 apex temp probes. One located in first chamber in sump and second probe in second chamber. Water level, even if ATO was to dump would ensure it' submerged. Outside of Apex, I have an insteon home automation temp probe set to email as well, in display tank. So, 3 probes bascially, 2 systems. The heater is plugged into one of the larger outlets on the Apex .. so far, no issues. So, it sees, with the failovers I have, things should be ok ..

11/26/2014, 10:11 AM	#8
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	What is protecting a outlet failure on the apex? ...or an apex failure? Most people who want dual safety have one on heater as well.

11/26/2014, 08:34 PM	#9
Yam Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 411	I'd also double check that the circuit the heater is plugged into will not be overloaded. Max wattage on a 15A breaker is 1800W, and shouldn't operate 1440W (80%) continuously.

11/27/2014, 05:40 AM	#11
Yam Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 411	I meant you shouldn't operate at more than 1440W or 12A continuously on a 15A breaker. You probably also took this into account, but other items like general lighting may also be on the same circuit breaker also. Sounds like you're good to go. Good luck.