Battling cyano in a 11 mo. old tank

[Jandawil]

So my son and I have been battling cyano in his 60 gallon 48" long reef. I've read up on this a ton and have some info/points below:

1. We are using RO/DI water but I have not tested it. I ordered a TDS meter and a phosphate test kit yesterday.

2. Switched from cheap T5 lights to a pair of Ocean Revive T247 LEDs this weekend. Cyano almost went away after two days so bad light could have played a part...but it's coming back a bit now.

3. We are not using a skimmer. Have a cheap Lee's counter current skimmer but never had much luck with it.

4. Flow in theory should be good. We have 2 Hydor 600 GPH powerheads, BUT...the flow appears to be very weak IMO. Cyano may be evidence of that. Looking for a good way to test if the flow is adequate. I took them out a couple weeks ago and scrubbed all the coraline off of them.

5. Did the lights out thing for 3 days. It greatly reduced the cyano, but it came back once lights came back on.

So some questions.

1. How do I test for adequate flow on the sand bed and even the rocks where it's growing?

2. Do powerheads lose power over time or have flow issues?

3. We bought red slime remover, but haven't used it yet. Trying natural methods first. When do we resort to using this stuff? Without skimmer I heard it can be tough to get out of the tank after.

4. Is cyano a normal part of the tank maturation/cycle process at this age?

I will report back TDS and Phosphate levels as soon as I have the test kits and will let you all know. Hopefully they will reveal something.

[FinzAquatics]

Nitrates, Phosphates, and lack of flow.

Ensure all of those are up to par. Then treat with Chemi Clean

Should do the trick

Had a similar issue a few months back and I also do not use a skimmer. Focuses on these items and used the chemi clean... My tank is now red slime free

[Jandawil]

Originally Posted by FinzAquatics

Nitrates, Phosphates, and lack of flow.

Ensure all of those are up to par. Then treat with Chemi Clean

Should do the trick

Lack of flow...what is the best way to test? I've heard someone say tying some ribbon to a rock and placing it in various areas to see the movement. Wondering how a powerhead near top of tank will create flow on sandbed...and vice-versa if I place the powerheads lower how do I create flow on the top of the rocks?

[reefgeezer]

Power heads need to be cleaned. They get a build-up of calcium and organics that do slow the flow somewhat. I run mine in a bucket of bleach water for a while and then, after a rinse, soak them in vinegar.

Your Cyano problem however probably has more to do with elevated organics due to the lack of any means of control than it does flow. A skimmer and/or a lot of GAC would be a good way to lower the organic levels.

To test flow, just watch the food as it moves through the tank or stir up some detritus and see where it falls. Chemi Clean will work, but the Cyano will come back if you don't change anything else.

[Jandawil]

Originally Posted by reefgeezer

Power heads need to be cleaned. They get a build-up of calcium and organics that do slow the flow somewhat. I run mine in a bucket of bleach water for a while and then, after a rinse, soak them in vinegar.

Your Cyano problem however probably has more to do with elevated organics due to the lack of any means of control than it does flow. A skimmer and/or a lot of GAC would be a good way to lower the organic levels.

To test flow, just watch the food as it moves through the tank or stir up some detritus and see where it falls. Chemi Clean will work, but the Cyano will come back if you don't change anything else.

Yeah I think my powerheads may be a big problem. I'm just not really seeing any movement and there seems to be very little flow coming off of these things. I am going to take one at a time off and try what you suggested.

[Jandawil]

OK my TDS meter says my water is perfect. Tap water only has 132 PPM of TDS and my RODI is registering 000. My powerheads aren't moving anything though. I got one completely cleaned off, and I can hold it 3-4" above the sand and it barely moves a grain. When looking at the prop it just appears that it isn;t spinning very fast. I seem to recall them working better when we got them. Would they just crap out like this after a few months???

[Waters40]

I also have a 60 gallon tank and I am running a total of 4 Hydor powerheads (1150, 850, and two 240s) so your flow probably is lacking, which doesn't help. The higher flow works to prevent the cyano from taking hold. I am leaning more towards excess nutrients in the tank though. I would reduce feedings and run a skimmer if possible (manually siphoning the cyano daily).

[Jandawil]

Originally Posted by Waters40

I also have a 60 gallon tank and I am running a total of 4 Hydor powerheads (1150, 850, and two 240s) so your flow probably is lacking, which doesn't help. The higher flow works to prevent the cyano from taking hold. I am leaning more towards excess nutrients in the tank though. I would reduce feedings and run a skimmer if possible (manually siphoning the cyano daily).

I think the next step is adding a Hydor 1150 powerhead to the system and double up on water changes for a bit and see how it goes.

[Nhorner]

Usually lack of flow!!! If it's sps crank it up!!!

[Jandawil]

Originally Posted by Nhorner

Usually lack of flow!!! If it's sps crank it up!!!

I actually emailed Hydor and they asked for pictures of model number tag and a picture of the prop as well. Hopefully they can get these working again. IF I need to add another, a 1150 should be a lot of flow....but technically that would mean I'm running 2 X 550 and a 1150 for a total flow of 2250 GPH. That's a total tank turnover of 37.5 times tank volume (not counting the return from my sump). Seems like a lot....but again...I don't think I'm getting near the flow these are advertising.

[joshky]

Flow definitely sounds like a contributing factor, have you considered using wavemakers? Like on the cheap, you could do two RW-8s by jebao. I really think you'd be happier overall if this is something you'd consider.

[Nhorner]

Ok what is your aqua scape? Are there dead spots? Does it look like you took a box of rocks and dumped it in your tank? Send me some picks with different views.

[Jandawil]

Originally Posted by Nhorner

Ok what is your aqua scape? Are there dead spots? Does it look like you took a box of rocks and dumped it in your tank? Send me some picks with different views.

Here are a couple top down shots (early in the tank's lifecycle)
Right side:


Left side:


FTS this weekend after new LED's installed. You can see the cyano was really bad. It got a lot better after the new lights but is still there. I'll get an updated shot tonight:


As of now the rocks are almost cyano free and the sand is better, but still has patches of cyano. I also noticed a lot of clear bubbles on teh rocks and some on the sand where the cyano was. It's almost as if gas is leaching from it or form the sand. Saw this after the LEDs went up. It's subsided some though.

[Nhorner]

Ok don't panic... Personally I would throw a coupl mp 40s on there maybe even 3 and have them communicate with each other also. More flow more flow... Also reduce feeding you may be feeding to much? Where are your phosphates at? Also are you making your own water - RO? Your own salt? F so what are you reading tds and what kind of salt? Let's be a docter here... You have symptoms time to rule stuff out

[Nhorner]

Great looking scape btw. It's nice and open

[Jandawil]

Originally Posted by Nhorner

Great looking scape btw. It's nice and open

Thanks... we were happy with the scape as well. Not sure of phosphates yet. I ordered a test kit that will be here Monday. As far as 3 MP-40s....that's funny. This is for my 13 year old son and he doesn't have than many Christmas's or birthdays combined for me to Drop $1200 on powerheads . Gonna have to stick with Hydors. As far as other levels and info:

-Ammonia - 0
-Nitrites -0
-Nitrates <20
-Water - Making my own with 6 stage RO/DI. Tap water here is very good at 132 ppm TDS, and I'm getting 000 readings form my TFS meter.
-Salt - Instant Ocean
-Total tank volume - ~70 gallons including sump
-70 lbs live rock and 50 lbs sand
-Water changes - 5 gallons /week, but for a while he was lax in his WC schedule which may have contributed to some of this.
-Bio-load - Pretty small. Only 2 clowns and 2 chromis most of the time and just added a coral beauty last month
-Skimmer - Not running. POS Lee's Protien skimmer, but may have him replace the air stone and fire it back up.
-Feeding - We did cut back a bit. He's using Spectrum marine pellets twice a day.

[Nhorner]

For salt my mentor taught me water quality is most important... I would switch to tropic marin. Also go to 15 gallon changes once a week for a month maybe every 4 days. When I had a cyano out break he taught me more water changes. Odds are phos is high. Not enough clean water in tank. Give that a try

[Nhorner]

Without a skimmer you may as well have a packed out over loaded tank. A great skimmer will do you wonders. I just got the 90 hob reef octopus on mine. Made a huge difference! The circular one not the rectangle

[Jandawil]

Originally Posted by Nhorner

Without a skimmer you may as well have a packed out over loaded tank. A great skimmer will do you wonders. I just got the 90 hob reef octopus on mine. Made a huge difference! The circular one not the rectangle

Yeah I know that a skimmer is the inevitable next step. Was considering the SCA-301 skimmer. I've heard good things and they are very reasonable.

http://www.amazon.com/SCA-301-Gallon...ustomerReviews

[Nhorner]

So how big is your sump?

[Nhorner]

Nvm 10 gal right?

[Jandawil]

Originally Posted by Nhorner

Nvm 10 gal right?

20 gallon sump (The 70 gallons total was factoring in rock/sand displacement). It's sectioned into overflow drain and skimmer on far left at 11.5" deep. Second is refugium at 8" depth and that is by far the biggest section. Far right is the return pump section.

The skimmer section is 11.5" since that was the requirement for the Lee's skimmer. It's way too deep for other skimmers and also too narrow (didn't think ahead there). I think I have about 23" clearance in the sump cabinet. I may need to run the sump in the refugium section which should still work.

There are baffles in between each section:

[Nhorner]

Ok good to go. Personally any reef octopus skimmer is what I would go with... Out of everything, do not shortcut or go cheap of skimmer. Water quality is 75-80% of it. It's like our oil in our car water in our body. Step it up to 15 - 20 gal water changes ever 4-5 days for a month and watch what happens. Get a skimmer rated for your tank size or a lite bigger for heavy bio load... You can not over skim. Keep me updated

[Dustyboots]

Please put a skimmer in there! You will be so happy until you clean it out.

[Jandawil]

Just ordered the SCA-301 skimmer from Amazon so it should be here Tuesday. Looking forward to the difference it can make. Has very good reviews.