drews doser and apex energy bar

[doctorwhoreefer]

Anyone use these on the triac outlets?

I see Neptune says don't if its <4-5 watts, brs says use the 4/8 outlet, but so far I'm seeing no problem turning it off on the triac outlet. Want to be sure though its not gonna bite me in the behind later.

[kurt_n]

The problem with those low wattage devices on triacs is that it isn't consistent... it can work fine for a while, then bang... it'll bite you. And the problem that normally occurs is that they will turn on, but not turn off. That might not be a big deal for a little powerhead, but for a doser... having it stick "on" with no way to turn it off is going to lead to disaster.

I wouldn't risk it... it will bite you at some point and the cost to recover will make you kick yourself. If you're out of outlets, you could always buy a EB4. Those are all mechanical relays.

[doctorwhoreefer]

Kurt from Neptune by chance?

I talked to brs again, couple people guessed around 10 watts. Evidently they don't know for sure. I can verify that my gyre pump has no issues switching off, at 2nd level setting that's 5.1 watts.

Is it really a problem with the triac outlet design, or is it possibly after they experience wear?
I've got another eb8 otw for peace of mind, but it bothers me because it seems to be a gray area. And having a doser fail on is just about one of the worst things that could happen.. Hehe

[kurt_n]

Originally Posted by doctorwhoreefer

Kurt from Neptune by chance?

Nope. He spells his wrong. He's "Curt."

I talked to brs again, couple people guessed around 10 watts. Evidently they don't know for sure. I can verify that my gyre pump has no issues switching off, at 2nd level setting that's 5.1 watts.

Is it really a problem with the triac outlet design, or is it possibly after they experience wear?

There's no hard number, because different devices have different load factors. But the rule of thumb I use (and seems to work in my setup) is anything less than 5 Watts is probably going to be a problem.

It's definitely an issue with just the basic way the triac works. They don't wear at all, as they're a solid-state design... unlike mechanical switches. Any controller that uses triacs is going to have the same issue, assuming they don't build-in a dummy load that boosts the current flow through that outlet.

I've got another eb8 otw for peace of mind, but it bothers me because it seems to be a gray area. And having a doser fail on is just about one of the worst things that could happen.. Hehe

I don't think it's really a gray area. In my opinion, the issue isn't really publicized as well as it should be in the pre-sales literature. But I believe the issue is spelled out well in the manual, as well as numerous threads here and there on forums.

[doctorwhoreefer]

Ya, now that I'm actually looking for it I'm finding more.. lol

I see pretty much only 1 post on any forum talking about the drew's doser 'won't turn off' and that's with the RKL triac. (wonder if it's similar design to the apex?)

I think the most I've seen elsewhere is a ratio of power vs resistance of the device will determine if the triac will work. Know anything else beyond that?

I thought about hooking up the doser jar 4w pumps to each of the corresponding heads. Any suggestions for dummy loads in your experience that work well? Gonna have the whitebox outlet tomorrow so then I'll know more..

The thought of 1 of those 3 dosing pumps staying on is just an incredibly horrible image.. :|

[slief]

Originally Posted by doctorwhoreefer

Ya, now that I'm actually looking for it I'm finding more.. lol

I see pretty much only 1 post on any forum talking about the drew's doser 'won't turn off' and that's with the RKL triac. (wonder if it's similar design to the apex?)

I think the most I've seen elsewhere is a ratio of power vs resistance of the device will determine if the triac will work. Know anything else beyond that?

I thought about hooking up the doser jar 4w pumps to each of the corresponding heads. Any suggestions for dummy loads in your experience that work well? Gonna have the whitebox outlet tomorrow so then I'll know more..

The thought of 1 of those 3 dosing pumps staying on is just an incredibly horrible image.. :|

Triac's are triacs which is why the same will happen on the RKL and the Apex. You need to use the relay outlets (4 & 8) for any low draw devices like dosing pumps, solenoids etc as mentioned above. This is a well known and documented issue as you are finding out.

All of my solenoids and my dosing/ATO pumps are on the relay outlets just as they have been for the last 4+ years.

[doctorwhoreefer]

Any idea on the relay outlets mtbf?

[slief]

Originally Posted by doctorwhoreefer

Any idea on the relay outlets mtbf?

I've got 4 or 5 years going on mine without an issue and my ATO turns on several times a day. There dozens of relays in our cars and you rarely if ever hear about relay failures. My previous Neptune Aqua Controller was nearly 15 years old when I sold it and I never had a failure with that thing either and the relay outlets got plenty of exercise every day. The relays will outlast your Apex. Have no fear.

[doctorwhoreefer]

Cool, thank you