How to plumb new tank and sump

aprilschutt · 02/10/2015, 09:20 PM

I just purchased a 75 gallon tank that is drilled with 2 holes in the bottom right corner. It also came with a 55 gallon sump that is divided into three sections.

1. How on earth do I plumb it?

2. I am thinking for the sump to have the first chamber go into a filter sock and have a skimmer in that chamber too. (is that good?) Second chamber to be the refugium and the 3rd chamber to be the return pump. Does that all sound right?

3. Where and how would I install a check valve (this would stop my tank from draining in the event of a power outage right?)

4. Can I always add an ATO at a later time?

Thanks everyone for your help!

sealtea116 · 02/10/2015, 10:43 PM

So check value goes close to the top of the return line and yes the three chambers are for skimmer refugium and the return pump and I would advise against a filter sock it holds all that extra crap that u don't want and could inflate nirate levels and u will have to change it a lot and u would uses pvc from the main tank threw a bulk head and I use breaded flex tube for my return line

fishgate · 02/11/2015, 07:25 AM

The larger hole is the drain, smaller is the return. You don't need a check valve if you design this properly. With your setup I don't think you will drain enough water if your pump stops to overflow your sump. Test this and adjust water level accordingly in your sump! If your sump was built with the section dividers all the way up to the top (poor design) then I suggest building a new sump that can handle whatever will drain into your tank.

Yes you can add an ATO whenever you want. But that size tank if the top is open will need 1-3 gallons a day probably in top-off (depending on ambient humidity).

Didn't this come with the plumbing parts?

andresht · 02/11/2015, 07:52 AM

I agree with the comments.

1. The two holes are intended one for drain and the other for the return, but it would be better to use both for drain and you can run the return over the back.

2. You're thinking right, drain plus sock, skimmer and return.

3. I would not use a valve check, tend to generate problems. Has fishgate said If the sump is well dimensioned this could contain the volume that is draining in the event of a power outage.

4. You can always add in the future.

LatinP · 02/11/2015, 07:58 AM

The general rule is that you size your return pump so the the overflow drain can always handle more than your return pump. If done correctly the return pump will never be capable of flooding the tank up top and the drain will only release as much water as the return pump feeds back.

aprilschutt · 02/11/2015, 11:08 AM

Thank you all so much for the responses. I'm feeling a more and more confident on getting this set up! It did not come with plumbing...the guy I bought I from bought it used and never ended up setting it up so not sure where the plumbing ended up.

Here's a picture of the sump. Does this look like a good design? And if the tank is drilled on the right side does that mean the skimmer starts on the far right?

aprilschutt · 02/11/2015, 11:09 AM

For some reason I could only upload one picture at a time.

aprilschutt · 02/11/2015, 11:10 AM

This is what the pane on the far left looks like. (It seems like it was cracked and then patched over).

djtuzik · 02/11/2015, 01:07 PM

don't use a check valve, false sense of security.
skimmer goes near the bubble trap.
Use braided tubing, as much as you can.

aprilschutt · 02/11/2015, 01:44 PM

What is braided tubing?

djtuzik · 02/11/2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aprilschutt

What is braided tubing?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-1-2...LI10/202257608

aprilschutt · 02/11/2015, 01:51 PM

Great! Does this hold up better than PVC?

djtuzik · 02/11/2015, 01:53 PM

it's designed for low pressure and is very easy to work with. as well as no vibration issues

aprilschutt · 02/11/2015, 02:10 PM

Ok, and if I'm setting up for a reef tank low pressure is good?

djtuzik · 02/11/2015, 02:17 PM

yes

xanthurus · 02/11/2015, 02:24 PM

Looking at the second picture you posted it looks like they had it set up (from Left to Right) Refuge, Return, Skimmer. I am basing that on what looks like the water stains on the tank. What skimmer were you planning on using? That might help determine how to setup the sump.

Cymonous · 02/11/2015, 02:42 PM

Even if the tank is drilled on the right side, you can have the drain go down at an angle using a 45 degree elbo towards the left side of the sump. That sump is designed to go from Left to right. I would put the skimmer in the left chamber, fuge, then return pump.

aprilschutt · 02/11/2015, 02:59 PM

Ok, @ cymonous but doesn't the skimmer need to be next to the bubble trap?

@xanthurus I have an Eshopps PSK-150 Protein Skimmer I plan on using. Also, how does it work to have the return in the middle section?

I hope these aren't to dumb of questions!

Cymonous · 02/11/2015, 03:01 PM

The skimmer does not have to be by a bubble trap. I don't even have a bubble trap in my sump and no bubbles in DT. I have a PSK-75 myself.

xanthurus · 02/11/2015, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aprilschutt

Ok, @ cymonous but doesn't the skimmer need to be next to the bubble trap?

@xanthurus I have an Eshopps PSK-150 Protein Skimmer I plan on using. Also, how does it work to have the return in the middle section?

I hope these aren't to dumb of questions!

By dividing the Refuge and the Skimmer section on both ends and having the return in the middle will allow you to have the deeper section for the refuge and have the lower water height needed for the skimmer. You would just need to have a way to pump the water from the skimmer/return section into the refuge (teeing off the return, another pump pumping water into the fuge, or teeing off the drain line.)

The water lines on the tank is what made me think that was the way the sump was used. However, I don't think the return section needs to be that big. The left most divider, the one with the holes drilled into it, looks to be about 16 inches deep. If that is the case that would be too deep for most skimmers. If you used that section for the drain/skimmer you would need about an 8 inch skimmer stand. Also, the holes drilled into the divider looks like it is to keep stuff in the fuge section.

I see three options. If you had the water flow left to right I would go Fuge/Skimmer/Return.

If the water flows right to left I would go with the skimmer in the far right, fuge in the middle and return in the left. I don't think this option would work. The whole tank would then be at the 16 inch dept and it doesn't make sense with the bubble trap where it would be located.

If you flowed the water from both ends to the middle it would be fuge to the left, skimmer in the right and return in the middle. However I am not sure why the return would be as big as it is.

aprilschutt · 02/12/2015, 11:08 AM

Ok everyone, I think I am understanding how to plumb my tank now. I SO appreciate the help and confirmation on things I have been thinking.

One more question that comes to mind...I have seen many plumbing set ups on YouTube where people have what look like shut off valves on their PVC in different places. What is the purpose of this, and are they necessary?

xanthurus · 02/12/2015, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aprilschutt

Ok everyone, I think I am understanding how to plumb my tank now. I SO appreciate the help and confirmation on things I have been thinking.

One more question that comes to mind...I have seen many plumbing set ups on YouTube where people have what look like shut off valves on their PVC in different places. What is the purpose of this, and are they necessary?

Most people are going to a Herbie or a BA type of drain systems to silence the overflows. No they are not necessary. Here is some light reading (ok maybe not so light)

BA
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1310585

and

Herbie
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...ghlight=herbie

aprilschutt · 02/12/2015, 12:04 PM

Ok, final question for today.

What size return pump do I need if I have a 75 gallon tank and a 55 gallon sump?

Maybe some links to a pump to buy would be helpful!

fishgate · 02/13/2015, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aprilschutt

Ok, final question for today.

What size return pump do I need if I have a 75 gallon tank and a 55 gallon sump?

Maybe some links to a pump to buy would be helpful!

This is dependent on a lot of things. Desired flow rate and head height being primary. Running other things from the same pump like reactors and such also needs to taken into consideration. If you are running a full siphon drain you automatically will need a stronger pump. I just got the Jebao DC-6000 pump to provide the return for a 1" full siphon drain. I haven't set it up yet so can't say if it is enough pump.

aprilschutt · 02/24/2015, 03:45 PM

I thought I'd show you all where I'm at in my tank set up process. I'm very close to adding water and getting the cycle started!! My husband is building this is a wall so the drywall around it isn't done yet but it's gonna look sweet when it it! Thanks everyone for all your help!

02/10/2015, 09:20 PM	#1
aprilschutt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 125	How to plumb new tank and sump I just purchased a 75 gallon tank that is drilled with 2 holes in the bottom right corner. It also came with a 55 gallon sump that is divided into three sections. 1. How on earth do I plumb it? 2. I am thinking for the sump to have the first chamber go into a filter sock and have a skimmer in that chamber too. (is that good?) Second chamber to be the refugium and the 3rd chamber to be the return pump. Does that all sound right? 3. Where and how would I install a check valve (this would stop my tank from draining in the event of a power outage right?) 4. Can I always add an ATO at a later time? Thanks everyone for your help!

02/11/2015, 07:25 AM	#3
fishgate Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Damascus, MD Posts: 3,340	The larger hole is the drain, smaller is the return. You don't need a check valve if you design this properly. With your setup I don't think you will drain enough water if your pump stops to overflow your sump. Test this and adjust water level accordingly in your sump! If your sump was built with the section dividers all the way up to the top (poor design) then I suggest building a new sump that can handle whatever will drain into your tank. Yes you can add an ATO whenever you want. But that size tank if the top is open will need 1-3 gallons a day probably in top-off (depending on ambient humidity). Didn't this come with the plumbing parts? __________________ 125RR in-wall, 40B Sump, CS180 BM Skimmer, ATI 4x80 watt, eheim 1262, custom wrap around rock wall, ReefKeeper Elite 120g in-wall, 40B Sump, PC 54wx4, Jabao DC-6000 (full siphon), future seahorse t Current Tank Info: 125g, 120g, 2x40b sumps, ATI 4x80 T5HO

02/11/2015, 02:42 PM	#17
Cymonous My Clown Attacks Me Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,105	Even if the tank is drilled on the right side, you can have the drain go down at an angle using a 45 degree elbo towards the left side of the sump. That sump is designed to go from Left to right. I would put the skimmer in the left chamber, fuge, then return pump. __________________ 100 Gallon Long with 20L sump 10 Gallon Office Tank Current Tank Info: 2 False Percula Clowns, One Spot Foxface, Diamond Watchman Goby, Yellow Tail Damsel, Engineer Goby

02/11/2015, 03:01 PM	#19
Cymonous My Clown Attacks Me Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,105	The skimmer does not have to be by a bubble trap. I don't even have a bubble trap in my sump and no bubbles in DT. I have a PSK-75 myself. __________________ 100 Gallon Long with 20L sump 10 Gallon Office Tank Current Tank Info: 2 False Percula Clowns, One Spot Foxface, Diamond Watchman Goby, Yellow Tail Damsel, Engineer Goby

02/10/2015, 10:43 PM	#2
sealtea116 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: New York Posts: 271	So check value goes close to the top of the return line and yes the three chambers are for skimmer refugium and the return pump and I would advise against a filter sock it holds all that extra crap that u don't want and could inflate nirate levels and u will have to change it a lot and u would uses pvc from the main tank threw a bulk head and I use breaded flex tube for my return line

02/11/2015, 07:52 AM	#4
andresht Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 15	I agree with the comments. 1. The two holes are intended one for drain and the other for the return, but it would be better to use both for drain and you can run the return over the back. 2. You're thinking right, drain plus sock, skimmer and return. 3. I would not use a valve check, tend to generate problems. Has fishgate said If the sump is well dimensioned this could contain the volume that is draining in the event of a power outage. 4. You can always add in the future.

02/11/2015, 07:58 AM	#5
LatinP Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 59	The general rule is that you size your return pump so the the overflow drain can always handle more than your return pump. If done correctly the return pump will never be capable of flooding the tank up top and the drain will only release as much water as the return pump feeds back.

02/11/2015, 01:07 PM	#9
djtuzik Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 282	don't use a check valve, false sense of security. skimmer goes near the bubble trap. Use braided tubing, as much as you can.

02/11/2015, 01:44 PM	#10
aprilschutt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 125	What is braided tubing?

02/11/2015, 01:51 PM	#12
aprilschutt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 125	Great! Does this hold up better than PVC?

02/11/2015, 01:53 PM	#13
djtuzik Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 282	it's designed for low pressure and is very easy to work with. as well as no vibration issues

02/11/2015, 02:10 PM	#14
aprilschutt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 125	Ok, and if I'm setting up for a reef tank low pressure is good?

02/11/2015, 02:17 PM	#15
djtuzik Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 282	yes

02/11/2015, 02:24 PM	#16
xanthurus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 48	Looking at the second picture you posted it looks like they had it set up (from Left to Right) Refuge, Return, Skimmer. I am basing that on what looks like the water stains on the tank. What skimmer were you planning on using? That might help determine how to setup the sump.

02/11/2015, 02:59 PM	#18
aprilschutt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 125	Ok, @ cymonous but doesn't the skimmer need to be next to the bubble trap? @xanthurus I have an Eshopps PSK-150 Protein Skimmer I plan on using. Also, how does it work to have the return in the middle section? I hope these aren't to dumb of questions!

02/12/2015, 11:08 AM	#21
aprilschutt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 125	Ok everyone, I think I am understanding how to plumb my tank now. I SO appreciate the help and confirmation on things I have been thinking. One more question that comes to mind...I have seen many plumbing set ups on YouTube where people have what look like shut off valves on their PVC in different places. What is the purpose of this, and are they necessary?

02/12/2015, 12:04 PM	#23
aprilschutt Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 125	Ok, final question for today. What size return pump do I need if I have a 75 gallon tank and a 55 gallon sump? Maybe some links to a pump to buy would be helpful!