Help: Vertex Alpha 250 Protein Skimmer

[nitr8]

Anyone have this skimmer or experience with this line of skimmers? I've been using it for the last year and a half and its great but feel like it could be optimized to increase efficiency. I'm not trying to mod the skimmer at all just need someone familiar with the manufactured tuning methods to guide me. Please PM me if you can offer any assistance.

[tkeracer619]

You want to get fine bubbles. The skimmer comes with different intakes which you can swap out. It is really different for each tank and just takes some patience and small adjustments to get the finest bubble possible.

Adjusting the depth of water the skimmer sits in, the amount of air it can take in, and the different intakes for the pump will all make a difference.

They are great skimmers. I don't own one but I have a fair amount of experience with them.

What are your nitrates and phosphates? Are you carbon dosing? How much food are you feeding each day?

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

You want to get fine bubbles. The skimmer comes with different intakes which you can swap out. It is really different for each tank and just takes some patience and small adjustments to get the finest bubble possible.

Adjusting the depth of water the skimmer sits in, the amount of air it can take in, and the different intakes for the pump will all make a difference. I built my sump around this skimmer so the baffles are placed to keep the water level according to the manufacturers specifications. I'll mess with the nozzle on the front of the pump a bit to adjust the air intake (is that right?). With how much this skimmer costs I dont believe putting more money into it for additional intakes should be necessary

They are great skimmers. I don't own one but I have a fair amount of experience with them.I agree. Its ran pretty well for the last year and half but recently, the last few days, it's really been testing my nerves. Every so often it decides to overflow at an alarming rate. It's been really frustrating as I dont know why all the sudden the skimmer is going crazy. I havent changed any of the skimmer settings or valves. I treated the tank once 3 days ago with chemiclean to combat a small amount of cyano I noticed popping up in one spot of the tank. I did my 20% PWC yesterday, 48 hours after treating, as the directions indicate but the skimmer overflowed again today. Is that normal? You think the Chemiclean is whats giving me so much problems with my skimmer lately? Should I do another PWC?

What are your nitrates and phosphates? I just tested and the nitrates are .25 and phosphates are .03.Are you carbon dosing? I do not carbon dose. How much food are you feeding each day? AFS feeds 4 times per day, I feed forzen food once a day and dose 20mL of aminos daily.

[tkeracer619]

Yes, the skimmer is overflowing due to the chemiclean, that is normal. Let it overflow into a bucket and add salt water to compensate. Add carbon. It may take a bit for it to calm down.

iirc the nozzles came with the skimmer.

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Yes, the skimmer is overflowing due to the chemiclean, that is normal. Let it overflow into a bucket and add salt water to compensate. Add carbon. It may take a bit for it to calm down.

iirc the nozzles came with the skimmer. Mine didnt come with any extra nozzles but I'm sure it isnt the latest model either. I purchased mine about 5 years ago.

[slief]

As tke suggested, your overflows are being caused by the Chemiclean. That is 100% normal and expectable.

The first generation Alpha came wiith two different volute inserts. A short one and a slightly longer one. The shorter one allowed more air and less water and the longer one decresed the air but increased the water volume. The 2nd gen Alpha's came with an adjustable volute that you can screw in or out to adjust the air to water ratio. Screwing it in reduced the air flow where as opening it up increased the air ratio. Since it was working well before the Chemiclean treatment, I wouldn't mess with your adjustments at all. Just keep the skimmer running and allow the skimmer to remove the stuff from the water.

That said, the other reason the skimmer will overflow (if the sump level is correct) is if something like a snail makes its way into the pump or salt creep into the air inlet. Still, given the addition of Chemiclean, I'd bet that is your root cause.

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by slief

As tke suggested, your overflows are being caused by the Chemiclean. That is 100% normal and expectable.

The first generation Alpha came wiith two different volute inserts. A short one and a slightly longer one. The shorter one allowed more air and less water and the longer one decresed the air but increased the water volume. The 2nd gen Alpha's came with an adjustable volute that you can screw in or out to adjust the air to water ratio. Screwing it in reduced the air flow where as opening it up increased the air ratio. Since it was working well before the Chemiclean treatment, I wouldn't mess with your adjustments at all. Just keep the skimmer running and allow the skimmer to remove the stuff from the water.

That said, the other reason the skimmer will overflow (if the sump level is correct) is if something like a snail makes its way into the pump or salt creep into the air inlet. Still, given the addition of Chemiclean, I'd bet that is your root cause.

The skimmer worked well before introducing chemiclean to the system but as stated before I dont believe efficiency has been maximized. I have a 90 gallon tank, I understaned the skimmer is oversized but I'm heavily stocked with 16 fish, 13 invertebrates, 58 SPS, 13 LPS, 15 ricordea variations, 20 zoa and paly variations. What makes me think the skimmer is under performing is I can go a month without emptying the collection cup. I only do to clean the neck.

[tkeracer619]

Can you post a pic of it in the sump? I agree. Dont mess with it until after the current problem corrects itself.

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by slief

The 2nd gen Alpha's came with an adjustable volute that you can screw in or out to adjust the air to water ratio. Screwing it in reduced the air flow where as opening it up increased the air ratio...

This is the one I have. I messed with the volute a while ago that kept track of changes I made. You can see ob the bottom left corner that the last adjustment made was I screwed the volute all the way in and unscrewed it 3.5 rotations.

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Can you post a pic of it in the sump? I agree. Dont mess with it until after the current problem corrects itself.

Here you go.


Here is the sump design.
Blue: Drain section
Yellow: Top-off reservoir
Green: Bubble trap
Red: skimmer section
Purple: return section

[slief]

Originally Posted by nitr8

The skimmer worked well before introducing chemiclean to the system but as stated before I dont believe efficiency has been maximized. I have a 90 gallon tank, I understaned the skimmer is oversized but I'm heavily stocked with 16 fish, 13 invertebrates, 58 SPS, 13 LPS, 15 ricordea variations, 20 zoa and paly variations. What makes me think the skimmer is under performing is I can go a month without emptying the collection cup. I only do to clean the neck.

FWIW... I have a lot amount of experience with the Alpha's having owned them and helped many others with them. From an efficientcy standpoint, it is not a skimmer you want to oversize on your tank. They have very large diameter necks which means they need a fair amount of nutrients/DOC's to maintain a good solid foam head and keep them consistent. When you oversize them, the only way to get good consistant skim out of them is to run them really wet and face the possibility of overflows. Otherwise, they tend to lumber along with very little skimmate production until the DOC's build up. Then the skimmer will produce well for a few days until it drives the DOC's down enough that it can't maintain a good foam head that produces. In the end you wind up with inconsistancy.

I ran an Alpha 300 on my 480g display for a few years. It was a great skimmer however, it was oversized for my system despite 50-60 fish with many being large and heavy daily feedings. I downsized to a Supermarin 250 and am glad I did as it's much more consistent and overall produces much better results. This is no knock on the Alpha's because they are truly great skimmers but they are conservatively rated and should not be used on systems that are below their rating. I am a firm believer that you are much better off with a properly sized skimmer that consistently produces well than an oversized skimmer that is inconsistent. This primarly applies to these higher end skimmers that are truly conservatively rated. You can get away with oversizing many skimmers however the Alpha's and Bubble Kings are skimmers that will work best with bio loads that match their ratings. When appropriately sized, these skimmers are beasts!


As such, I think you are going to face continual issues when it comes to getting this skimmer dialed in on your system and working to your liking. It really is way way oversized for your tank and load and because of that, it's not going to produce as well on your system as it's smaller counterparts or an appropriately sized Bubble King. FWIW, 16 fish in a 75 gallon display does not constitute a heavy load for a skimmer that is rated to 450 gallons with a huge neck diameter. Personally, I would sell that skimmer and get yourself a Double Cone 180. I can guarantee with 100 percent certainty that you will be much muhc happier with the results. As I said, this skimmer is way way way too big for your load and it will never be consistent.

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by slief

FWIW... I have a lot amount of experience with the Alpha's having owned them and helped many others with them. From an efficientcy standpoint, it is not a skimmer you want to oversize on your tank. They have very large diameter necks which means they need a fair amount of nutrients/DOC's to maintain a good solid foam head and keep them consistent. When you oversize them, the only way to get good consistant skim out of them is to run them really wet and face the possibility of overflows. Otherwise, they tend to lumber along with very little skimmate production until the DOC's build up. Then the skimmer will produce well for a few days until it drives the DOC's down enough that it can't maintain a good foam head that produces. In the end you wind up with inconsistancy.

I ran an Alpha 300 on my 480g display for a few years. It was a great skimmer however, it was oversized for my system despite 50-60 fish with many being large and heavy daily feedings. I downsized to a Supermarin 250 and am glad I did as it's much more consistent and overall produces much better results. This is no knock on the Alpha's because they are truly great skimmers but they are conservatively rated and should not be used on systems that are below their rating. I am a firm believer that you are much better off with a properly sized skimmer that consistently produces well than an oversized skimmer that is inconsistent. This primarly applies to these higher end skimmers that are truly conservatively rated. You can get away with oversizing many skimmers however the Alpha's and Bubble Kings are skimmers that will work best with bio loads that match their ratings. When appropriately sized, these skimmers are beasts!


As such, I think you are going to face continual issues when it comes to getting this skimmer dialed in on your system and working to your liking. It really is way way oversized for your tank and load and because of that, it's not going to produce as well on your system as it's smaller counterparts or an appropriately sized Bubble King. FWIW, 16 fish in a 75 gallon display does not constitute a heavy load for a skimmer that is rated to 450 gallons with a huge neck diameter. Personally, I would sell that skimmer and get yourself a Double Cone 180. I can guarantee with 100 percent certainty that you will be much muhc happier with the results. As I said, this skimmer is way way way too big for your load and it will never be consistent.

Well I don't want to sell this one or get a new one as I am planning a much larger reef tank upgrade. What would you suggest I do with what I have in the meantime? Run the skimmer wet? Unscrew the volute more to increase air intake?

[slief]

Originally Posted by nitr8

Well I don't want to sell this one or get a new one as I am planning a much larger reef tank upgrade. What would you suggest I do with what I have in the meantime? Run the skimmer wet? Unscrew the volute more to increase air intake?

That's really about all you can do. Run it wet. You will need to raise the water level up in the skimmer to gete it wetter. You can raise your sump level some which will get the foam head higher in the neck and then fine tune with the volute or the wedge pipe. You can also try closing the wedge pipe more to see what that does for raising the level. The results of that will depend greatly on how much you have it closed already. Then fine tune with the volute. Closing the volute will make the bubbles finer but increase the water flow into the skimmer which should raise it lightly. Opening the volute up will increase the amount of air into the skimmer but will also incease the bubble size. This may cause some surging. If it's been making a good quality foam, I'd just raise the water level or close the wedge pipe some and see what that does although raising the sump level 1/4" will probably yield the best results.

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by slief

That's really about all you can do. Run it wet. You will need to raise the water level up in the skimmer to gete it wetter. You can raise your sump level some which will get the foam head higher in the neck and then fine tune with the volute or the wedge pipe. You can also try closing the wedge pipe more to see what that does for raising the level. The results of that will depend greatly on how much you have it closed already. Then fine tune with the volute. Closing the volute will make the bubbles finer but increase the water flow into the skimmer which should raise it lightly. Opening the volute up will increase the amount of air into the skimmer but will also incease the bubble size. This may cause some surging. If it's been making a good quality foam, I'd just raise the water level or close the wedge pipe some and see what that does although raising the sump level 1/4" will probably yield the best results.

Can you elaborate on opening and closing the volute in terms of in out.

[slief]

Screwing the volute in decreases the amount of air going into the skimmer but also makes finer bubbles. When you reduce the air into the pump by screwing the volute in, the pump displaces that air with water so you get more water flowing into the skimmer but less air. Opening the volute or unscrewing it, increases the amount of air into the pump but also makes for larger bubbles. Larger bubbles tend to pop at the surface instead of creating a nice packed foam. More air in the skimmer pump results in less water into the skimmer as water is then displaced by air in the pump/skimmer.

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by slief

Screwing the volute in decreases the amount of air going into the skimmer but also makes finer bubbles. When you reduce the air into the pump by screwing the volute in, the pump displaces that air with water so you get more water flowing into the skimmer but less air. Opening the volute or unscrewing it, increases the amount of air into the pump but also makes for larger bubbles. Larger bubbles tend to pop at the surface instead of creating a nice packed foam. More air in the skimmer pump results in less water into the skimmer as water is then displaced by air in the pump/skimmer.

That was a great explanation. Thank you for that. If I'm understanding correctly, due to my situation, I would benefit most by screwing the volute in to decrease air making the bubbles smaller to help create a more dense foam?

[Uncle Luke]

Slief is 100% correct. You are way way oversized. That's skimmer should be on a minimum 300+ heavily stocked tank. I know you're planning to upgrade but in the meantime it will be difficult or near impossible to yield consistent dark skimmate If I was in your situation, I would take the Alpha offline and use a (inexpensive) properly rated skimmer. Hth

[nitr8]

Alright this skimmer is really testing my nerves. I woke up this morning to my living room floor soaked because it was violently overflowing. I turned the wedge pipe so it was wide open and nothing changed, continuing to overflow. Water level in the sump was normal/consistant. I have the volute unscrewed the same amount of times it has been for the last year and a half. I haven't dosed chemiclean in weeks and I've done multiple water changes and added carbon since the last dose. The skimmer has ran fine for last week or so with no problems. The bubble production is just off the charts now. I've had it overflowing into a bucket for the past twenty minutes and its starting to slow down but I just dont get it. What would cause this excessive amount of bubbles to be produced within the skimmer? I gave all my pumps a vinegar bath on Saturday morning but that was two days ago. If that were it, why would it take two days for the skimmer to react?

To top it all off, the water column shocks me now.

[mikeatjac]

You will never get the skimmer to work well in your tank, as mentioned before it is too big. Unless you are going to a much larger tank then I would get something like a life Reef skimmer that you can add to as your display tank increases in size.

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by mikeatjac

You will never get the skimmer to work well in your tank, as mentioned before it is too big. Unless you are going to a much larger tank then I would get something like a life Reef skimmer that you can add to as your display tank increases in size.

That doesnt make sense to help with my current problem. I can understand the skimmer may under perform but not what I'm currently experiencing. If that were the case, than why has the skimmer operated perfectly fine for the last year and half?

[slief]

Originally Posted by nitr8

Alright this skimmer is really testing my nerves. I woke up this morning to my living room floor soaked because it was violently overflowing. I turned the wedge pipe so it was wide open and nothing changed, continuing to overflow. Water level in the sump was normal/consistant. I have the volute unscrewed the same amount of times it has been for the last year and a half. I haven't dosed chemiclean in weeks and I've done multiple water changes and added carbon since the last dose. The skimmer has ran fine for last week or so with no problems. The bubble production is just off the charts now. I've had it overflowing into a bucket for the past twenty minutes and its starting to slow down but I just dont get it. What would cause this excessive amount of bubbles to be produced within the skimmer? I gave all my pumps a vinegar bath on Saturday morning but that was two days ago. If that were it, why would it take two days for the skimmer to react?

To top it all off, the water column shocks me now.

Are you sure there isn't something like a snail in the pump? When you give them a vinegar bath are you taking the pump apart and removing the impeller? You should be in order to clean it properly.

[nitr8]

Originally Posted by slief

Are you sure there isn't something like a snail in the pump? When you give them a vinegar bath are you taking the pump apart and removing the impeller? You should be in order to clean it properly.

Yea I completely took the pump apart and soaked the pieces individually. Thats how I found out the impeller for my return pump was broken. Lol

[slief]

Originally Posted by nitr8

Yea I completely took the pump apart and soaked the pieces individually. Thats how I found out the impeller for my return pump was broken. Lol

Do you have the bearing at the back of the impeller installed correctly? Take a look at chapter 3 of this manual. If the bearing isn't seated properly into the block or is stuck the impeller shaft you will have issues. There is an o-ring on the bearing that needs to slip into a groove in the base of the block to hold the impeller dead center in the block. When you clean the pump and have the impeller removed, the bearing should be inserted into the motor block and seated properly before placing the impeller into the block. Many people slip the bearing onto the impeller shaft and then insert the whole impeller assembly into the motor block what can use the bearing to not be aligned properly.
http://www.vertexaquaristik.com/Port...mmerManual.pdf

Another thing to check is the foam filter in the silencer. They get crudded up with salt creep and dust. I removed my foam filters completely from my Alpha. There is an allen screw on top of the silencer. Remove that and you can access the foam filter. Your skimmer may run a bit louder as a result but the air path will be unobstructed.