Clown Fish Bullying H.Magnifica?

PsymonStark · 03/26/2015, 12:17 PM

Hey Reefers,

i have a pair of clown fish A.Ocellaris, and a H.Magnifica.
The last couple of weeks i have noticed that the now becoming a female clown fish is rather forceful to her Anemone.
I am well aware they they kinda of bite and nibble on the tentacles of their host Anemones, but somehow i think this picture looks wrong. Today she was like head butting the mouth of the anemone.

Anemones Tentacles are retracted alot on the one side, and some of them look really shrivelled up today

The Anemone is otherwise quite happy there (afaik), gets a Wave maker type flow of his tentacles, eats and grabs food keenly, and hasnt moved in about 2 months.

What do you think? Should i be concerned about this clown? Do your H/Magnificas also look like that sometimes?

addictedreefer · 03/26/2015, 12:34 PM

That nem looks pretty rough. Definitely not normal. Can you provide more info about your system (age, size, lighting (looks a bit dim)) and your water parameters?

PsymonStark · 03/26/2015, 12:56 PM

I wish not to be beaten up.
Im a new reefer compared to most of you, and bought this anemone together with the two clowns at the beginning of this year(they live all happy together at the LFS), without doing my research properly (about the anemone), which i am upset with myself about. as it was only after doing research that i found out that i have only like the hardest to keep Anemone alive.

Nonetheless here are the details.

Tank has been up for 10 months, but only started having corals and fish since Jan this year.

VOL 126L / 33 US Gal
No Sump
RODI water
LED is like a cheapy thing i bought (HI-Lumen LED). Want the Radion XR30 so bad - just dont has the cash.
do a 30L Water change once a week (8gal) 25%ish

(salifert)
CA 440
ALK 10.8
MAG 1350
SAL 1.024
NO3 5 ppm
Temp 24 Deg C / (which is 75.2 F, i think)

Inhabitants include
2x Purple Firefish
1x Diamond Watchman Goby
2x Ocellaris
1x H.Magnifica

1x small patch of Zoa
some Xenia elongata growing like weeds,
2 small disco
1x torch euphillia
1x acanthastrea

addictedreefer · 03/26/2015, 01:13 PM

Not trying to flame you, but I will give you some unfiltered advice.

One of the most important criteria for magnificas is very bright light. Without sufficient light, the anemone will wither and die and that looks to be happening now. What happens is that the anemone, starved for energy from the light, begins to consume itself until it eventually dies. That explains the stubby tentacles and "bald look." There is only one way to recover: invest in strong lighting. It does not need to be a $500 - $700 LED fixture, a powerful T5 or 250W halide would do just fine and would be much more reasonably priced.

PsymonStark · 03/26/2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addictedreefer

Not trying to flame you, but I will give you some unfiltered advice.

One of the most important criteria for magnificas is very bright light. Without sufficient light, the anemone will wither and die and that looks to be happening now. What happens is that the anemone, starved for energy from the light, begins to consume itself until it eventually dies. That explains the stubby tentacles and "bald look." There is only one way to recover: invest in strong lighting. It does not need to be a $500 - $700 LED fixture, a powerful T5 or 250W halide would do just fine and would be much more reasonably priced.

Thank you. So the issue with the bald look is definitely lighting.. Does the bullying of the clown have something to do with it too?

addictedreefer · 03/26/2015, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsymonStark

Thank you. So the issue with the bald look is definitely lighting.. Does the bullying of the clown have something to do with it too?

Doubt it. Too often do I see the "rough clown" used as a scapegoat for the poor health of an anemone. Although it is possible, it is very rare and cannot be mistaken -- ie reports of clowns (usually saddlebacks) diving completely into the mouths of their hosts and ripping stuff out. If you are really concerned, try to capture some of the behavior on video.

In any event, regardless of the clown, upgrading the lighting (and soon) is an absolute must.

PsymonStark · 03/26/2015, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addictedreefer

Doubt it. Too often do I see the "rough clown" used as a scapegoat for the poor health of an anemone. Although it is possible, it is very rare and cannot be mistaken -- ie reports of clowns (usually saddlebacks) diving completely into the mouths of their hosts and ripping stuff out. If you are really concerned, try to capture some of the behavior on video.

In any event, regardless of the clown, upgrading the lighting (and soon) is an absolute must.

Im on it this very second. Thank you addictedreefer for your help in this regard. I just want the best for my tank.

clorox · 03/26/2015, 02:53 PM

If you notice the clowns are 'nuzzling' and 'diving' with regularity towards the mouth of the anemone, it could mean that it is probably sick, most likely weakened by the insufficient lighting.

If a mag or a gig are healthy and established, they can take any of the typical hyperactive clown behavior.

In your photo, that magnifica seems still hanging there, but is showing evident signs of decline due to light deprivation, so as addictedreefer recommended, you should upgrade your lighting as soon as you can. There are many inexpensive good quality chinese LED's on ebay. They don't have to be fancy as long as they provide good quality lighting.

D-Nak · 03/26/2015, 03:06 PM

If you can find a used metal halide system -- they are cheap since most people are moving to LEDs -- it can serve as a temporary band-aid until you have the funds to buy the LED that you want. Or, if you don't mind paying for the electricity and it's not heating up your tank too much, your magnifica will LOVE the light from a metal halide. A 150 watt DE will be sufficient for a 30 gallon tank.

PsymonStark · 03/26/2015, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clorox

If you notice the clowns are 'nuzzling' and 'diving' with regularity towards the mouth of the anemone, it could mean that it is probably sick, most likely weakened by the insufficient lighting.

If a mag or a gig are healthy and established, they can take any of the typical hyperactive clown behavior.

In your photo, that magnifica seems still hanging there, but is showing evident signs of decline due to light deprivation, so as addictedreefer recommended, you should upgrade your lighting as soon as you can. There are many inexpensive good quality chinese LED's on ebay. They don't have to be fancy as long as they provide good quality lighting.

My brain feels fried, since i wrote that post i have been researching lighting for hours.
I have come to something which i think will work. Could anyone give me feedback on this:

TMC iLumenAir 600
or
ZetLight ZP4000-742

My tank is 80cm long and 35 cm from front to back. Based on their graphs, and where the Anemone is currently planted himself in the tank, it should achieve 500-800par. Will that work?

PsymonStark · 03/26/2015, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Nak

If you can find a used metal halide system -- they are cheap since most people are moving to LEDs -- it can serve as a temporary band-aid until you have the funds to buy the LED that you want. Or, if you don't mind paying for the electricity and it's not heating up your tank too much, your magnifica will LOVE the light from a metal halide. A 150 watt DE will be sufficient for a 30 gallon tank.

This is the next challenge, Summer is on its way, and last year this tank heated up by 2-3 deg C. I didnt have corals or Anemones at the time though. But earlier this year, i put the heat up by 1-2 deg C on my heater, and the next thing Magnifica was scrambling to the top of the tank and getting itchy feet running all over!
Turned it back down 23-24 deg C and he went back to where he is now, happier. My concern with the Halide is the Temp will just heat it up too much.

jasonandsarah · 03/26/2015, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsymonStark

This is the next challenge, Summer is on its way, and last year this tank heated up by 2-3 deg C. I didnt have corals or Anemones at the time though. But earlier this year, i put the heat up by 1-2 deg C on my heater, and the next thing Magnifica was scrambling to the top of the tank and getting itchy feet running all over!
Turned it back down 23-24 deg C and he went back to where he is now, happier. My concern with the Halide is the Temp will just heat it up too much.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to stay with leds. These leds would light up your tank plenty and keep your Nem happy.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/281553749262?nav=SEARCH

PsymonStark · 03/26/2015, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonandsarah

There's nothing wrong with wanting to stay with leds. These leds would light up your tank plenty and keep your Nem happy.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/281553749262?nav=SEARCH

Ah, pity i cant get them where i am. Europe.

jasonandsarah · 03/26/2015, 06:56 PM

Though zetlight does make a good light. idk much about the one you listed but zetlight is the company that produces Maxspect Razor.
You have a ton of cheaper options for a 30g tank.
The price just dropped of the hydras? I'm not positive but I think you could light yippie tank with a Hydra 26? If not then the hydra 52 would be plenty.

OrionN · 03/26/2015, 08:09 PM

What you should do is have MH but have a fan blow across the water surface either in your sump or your tank, that turn on when the MH turn on. This will cool the tanks a lot. You need to add more top off water.
You can likely get a Radion G1. It is really good and will keep your Magnifica healthy. Look in the used reef dry stuff for sale.

OrionN · 03/26/2015, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsymonStark

This is the next challenge, Summer is on its way, and last year this tank heated up by 2-3 deg C. I didnt have corals or Anemones at the time though. But earlier this year, i put the heat up by 1-2 deg C on my heater, and the next thing Magnifica was scrambling to the top of the tank and getting itchy feet running all over!
Turned it back down 23-24 deg C and he went back to where he is now, happier. My concern with the Halide is the Temp will just heat it up too much.

I keep my tank at 26 degree C (80-81 F) and my anemones, including 2 Magnifica, do just fine. You may want to increase it slower.

D-Nak · 03/26/2015, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

What you should do is have MH but have a fan blow across the water surface either in your sump or your tank, that turn on when the MH turn on. This will cool the tanks a lot. You need to add more top off water.
You can likely get a Radion G1. It is really good and will keep your Magnifica healthy. Look in the used reef dry stuff for sale.

Also, if you can find a used G1, you can upgrade it to a G3 when you have some extra cash. I just upgraded mine and the added UV looks really nice.

SailorSurf · 03/26/2015, 10:28 PM

It's very normal for the clownish to do that. I had an H. Mag. for nearly 10 years. I would see the clowns putting their whole head in the mouth of the nem.

There are two things they really like. A lot of light (I had a 250w mh), and alternating flow. I really believe the alternating flow was key. It's also neet to watch them flow back and forth. Also try target feeding it until you get a new light.

PsymonStark · 03/27/2015, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionN

...
You can likely get a Radion G1. It is really good and will keep your Magnifica healthy. Look in the used reef dry stuff for sale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Nak

Also, if you can find a used G1, you can upgrade it to a G3 when you have some extra cash. I just upgraded mine and the added UV looks really nice.

You both hit the nail on the Head - i started looking and found a G2 online this morning, trying to see if i can purchase that. That would be like the best solution for me.

PsymonStark · 03/27/2015, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailorSurf

It's very normal for the clownish to do that. I had an H. Mag. for nearly 10 years. I would see the clowns putting their whole head in the mouth of the nem.

There are two things they really like. A lot of light (I had a 250w mh), and alternating flow. I really believe the alternating flow was key. It's also neet to watch them flow back and forth. Also try target feeding it until you get a new light.

In the beginning this nem was back and forth trying to find a suitable place, and finally "settled down" in the semi-indirect path of the wave maker. Seems to enjoy that.

I have been target feeding for quite a while already. I honestly think looking at all this in hindsight that its the target feeding thats still kept him hanging in there.

Can you give me some idea as to how much you feed? I would say my Mag is a good 15-20cm when flattening himself. (hope that maybe gives you a size indication)

VisionsOfSalt · 03/27/2015, 09:20 PM

Best of luck, subscribing to follow your progress.

Wish I could throw an opinion out there to help but 6 years in the hobby and I've intentionally strayed from nems.

PsymonStark · 04/02/2015, 03:02 AM

So, I have an update. If all goes well the the Radion g2 xr30w will arrive this afternoon. Really excited. Been target feeding quite a lot this week and it's all being taken in. So just got to hang in there a little longer.

OrionN · 04/02/2015, 05:40 AM

I feed my Magnifica once in a while about 1-2 cc each time. You can feed this much every 3rd day if you want him to growth.

D-Nak · 04/02/2015, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsymonStark

So, I have an update. If all goes well the the Radion g2 xr30w will arrive this afternoon. Really excited. Been target feeding quite a lot this week and it's all being taken in. So just got to hang in there a little longer.

That's fantastic. Your anemone will be much happier.

PsymonStark · 04/02/2015, 09:38 AM

And it's on and up!!! Can someone give me a tip or advice as to what intensity I should use. I've set it to 25% for now as I don't want to burn the living day lights outa everyone in the tank.

What's the max intensity I should acclimate it to and what time period.

03/26/2015, 12:17 PM	#1
PsymonStark Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Europe Posts: 125	Clown Fish Bullying H.Magnifica? Hey Reefers, i have a pair of clown fish A.Ocellaris, and a H.Magnifica. The last couple of weeks i have noticed that the now becoming a female clown fish is rather forceful to her Anemone. I am well aware they they kinda of bite and nibble on the tentacles of their host Anemones, but somehow i think this picture looks wrong. Today she was like head butting the mouth of the anemone. Anemones Tentacles are retracted alot on the one side, and some of them look really shrivelled up today The Anemone is otherwise quite happy there (afaik), gets a Wave maker type flow of his tentacles, eats and grabs food keenly, and hasnt moved in about 2 months. What do you think? Should i be concerned about this clown? Do your H/Magnificas also look like that sometimes?

03/26/2015, 03:06 PM	#9
D-Nak Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 5,797	If you can find a used metal halide system -- they are cheap since most people are moving to LEDs -- it can serve as a temporary band-aid until you have the funds to buy the LED that you want. Or, if you don't mind paying for the electricity and it's not heating up your tank too much, your magnifica will LOVE the light from a metal halide. A 150 watt DE will be sufficient for a 30 gallon tank. __________________ Tank info: 120 gallon 48x30x20 high DT. Clownfish breeding rack in full swing: C-Quest Onyx, Bali Aquarich P1 Picasso + Rod's Onyx, wild percula + Rod's Onyx.

03/26/2015, 08:09 PM	#15
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	What you should do is have MH but have a fan blow across the water surface either in your sump or your tank, that turn on when the MH turn on. This will cool the tanks a lot. You need to add more top off water. You can likely get a Radion G1. It is really good and will keep your Magnifica healthy. Look in the used reef dry stuff for sale. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

04/02/2015, 05:40 AM	#23
OrionN Moved on Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Coastal Texas Posts: 16,000	I feed my Magnifica once in a while about 1-2 cc each time. You can feed this much every 3rd day if you want him to growth. __________________ Minh My homepage is my album here at Reef Central Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip

03/26/2015, 12:34 PM	#2
addictedreefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 965	That nem looks pretty rough. Definitely not normal. Can you provide more info about your system (age, size, lighting (looks a bit dim)) and your water parameters?

03/26/2015, 12:56 PM	#3
PsymonStark Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Europe Posts: 125	I wish not to be beaten up. Im a new reefer compared to most of you, and bought this anemone together with the two clowns at the beginning of this year(they live all happy together at the LFS), without doing my research properly (about the anemone), which i am upset with myself about. as it was only after doing research that i found out that i have only like the hardest to keep Anemone alive. Nonetheless here are the details. Tank has been up for 10 months, but only started having corals and fish since Jan this year. VOL 126L / 33 US Gal No Sump RODI water LED is like a cheapy thing i bought (HI-Lumen LED). Want the Radion XR30 so bad - just dont has the cash. do a 30L Water change once a week (8gal) 25%ish (salifert) CA 440 ALK 10.8 MAG 1350 SAL 1.024 NO3 5 ppm Temp 24 Deg C / (which is 75.2 F, i think) Inhabitants include 2x Purple Firefish 1x Diamond Watchman Goby 2x Ocellaris 1x H.Magnifica 1x small patch of Zoa some Xenia elongata growing like weeds, 2 small disco 1x torch euphillia 1x acanthastrea

03/26/2015, 01:13 PM	#4
addictedreefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 965	Not trying to flame you, but I will give you some unfiltered advice. One of the most important criteria for magnificas is very bright light. Without sufficient light, the anemone will wither and die and that looks to be happening now. What happens is that the anemone, starved for energy from the light, begins to consume itself until it eventually dies. That explains the stubby tentacles and "bald look." There is only one way to recover: invest in strong lighting. It does not need to be a $500 - $700 LED fixture, a powerful T5 or 250W halide would do just fine and would be much more reasonably priced.

03/26/2015, 02:53 PM	#8
clorox Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 550	If you notice the clowns are 'nuzzling' and 'diving' with regularity towards the mouth of the anemone, it could mean that it is probably sick, most likely weakened by the insufficient lighting. If a mag or a gig are healthy and established, they can take any of the typical hyperactive clown behavior. In your photo, that magnifica seems still hanging there, but is showing evident signs of decline due to light deprivation, so as addictedreefer recommended, you should upgrade your lighting as soon as you can. There are many inexpensive good quality chinese LED's on ebay. They don't have to be fancy as long as they provide good quality lighting.

03/26/2015, 06:56 PM	#14
jasonandsarah Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Maine Posts: 70	Though zetlight does make a good light. idk much about the one you listed but zetlight is the company that produces Maxspect Razor. You have a ton of cheaper options for a 30g tank. The price just dropped of the hydras? I'm not positive but I think you could light yippie tank with a Hydra 26? If not then the hydra 52 would be plenty.

03/26/2015, 10:28 PM	#18
SailorSurf Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 8	It's very normal for the clownish to do that. I had an H. Mag. for nearly 10 years. I would see the clowns putting their whole head in the mouth of the nem. There are two things they really like. A lot of light (I had a 250w mh), and alternating flow. I really believe the alternating flow was key. It's also neet to watch them flow back and forth. Also try target feeding it until you get a new light.

03/27/2015, 09:20 PM	#21
VisionsOfSalt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 64	Best of luck, subscribing to follow your progress. Wish I could throw an opinion out there to help but 6 years in the hobby and I've intentionally strayed from nems.

04/02/2015, 03:02 AM	#22
PsymonStark Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Europe Posts: 125	So, I have an update. If all goes well the the Radion g2 xr30w will arrive this afternoon. Really excited. Been target feeding quite a lot this week and it's all being taken in. So just got to hang in there a little longer.

04/02/2015, 09:38 AM	#25
PsymonStark Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Europe Posts: 125	And it's on and up!!! Can someone give me a tip or advice as to what intensity I should use. I've set it to 25% for now as I don't want to burn the living day lights outa everyone in the tank. What's the max intensity I should acclimate it to and what time period.