Saving a DSB, but more importantly the pod population. Dragonet involved.

SeeCrabRun · 04/30/2015, 07:54 PM

Firstly I want to make it clear that I have a habit of talking circles around myself, so I am going to try not to confuse everyone!

I have multiple systems of different types and will mention them all in this post.

I have an ocellated dragonet (scooter blenny) that is in a reef system with an active refugium and she was the only inhabitant until I was certain she could be sustained. This post is not about her system, but it will impact her food source in hopefully a good way.

Sorry about such disclaimers, but I do want to make sure we are clear before we start. Now...

I recently upgraded my mature FOWLR to a larger tank and obviously the DSB did not go with it. Instead I left it in the original tank and just have the tank off to the side with a heater and power head. There was still CUC I was slowly picking out as they emerged from the sand over the days.

The other night I decided to take a flashlight to the now lifeless tank, except it wasn't lifeless. It was SWARMING with pods. Tisbe in specific. This is the strain I cultivate to feed my ocellated dragonet. I add them to her tank on a regular basis but I occasionally add them to the other tanks in case, for some reason, I need to put her in one of them in an emergency (not likely but I'd rather be prepared).

So I now have more pods in this half empty tank than I do in all of my cultures combined, since it hasn't been harvested at all in an actual month!

I want to somehow harvest them, but more than that, I want to try and move the sandbed and some pods into a smaller tank on my now upgraded system to continue to cultivate the pods there(as well as the refugium on her system and the actual cultures I keep). So basically a dedicated refugium away from the filtration system and away from her system.
Basically I'm creating backups of backups of backups to make sure she always have enough food.

Anyway. I know I can't transfer the DSB as it is. If I sift it even a little it'll cause a cycle. I don't want this cycle to go into the fish system, nor do I want it to kill the pods in the tank it is now.

I was wondering if I could stir and vacuum small sections at a time and run them through my zoo/phytoplankton sieves to harvest any pods and then move the now vacuumed and sifted sand into the refugium.

I'm mostly worried about crashing the lush culture that is in this tank while trying to shift things over.

I would absolutely love any advice that you have on this and instructions on the best way to achieve my goal. Thanks in advance!

CStrickland · 04/30/2015, 08:14 PM

idk much about it but I wonder how deep the pods actually go into the sand?

like, if you put a bunch of mesh bags with rock rubble in there for a while and then moved them over to the new tank with the top inch of sand you might get a good majority of the pods (specially if you did it at night when they're a'roamin). You could have a few inches of fresh sand in the new tank ready to go, and lay the rich pod-y stuff over the top to seed it. I guess it could still cycle just from taking off the top layer but with the rock rubble it might be minimal enough for amquel or prime to handle. Then when the sun comes up they will all wiggle down and get to work.

Just a thought.
BTW your post was super-clear I didn't have any trouble following your logic

SeeCrabRun · 04/30/2015, 08:27 PM

Thanks.

I have indeed considered something to that extent. Part of my wish to clean the sand was economic reasons. I hate to end up literally throwing away the sand after everything is harvested. I figured if it was cleaned it could start becoming a DSB in the refugium again.

ReefsandGeeks · 05/01/2015, 07:31 AM

I've seen pods make little caves in the sand on the edges of my glass, and they seemed to only go down maybe an inch typicaly. Not definitive, but I'd agree that top inch is good for majority

Sk8r · 05/01/2015, 08:53 AM

Try this. Cut half-inch strips of corrugated plastic-cardboard, that they use in yard signage. Turn them so the holes are up and glue the strips together in a small block. Make several of these, and use weights (rock) to sink them to the sandbed. Leave them several days. Then pick them up carefully into a bucket and see if you haven't collected some pods in those. A shake should clean them out, so you can do it again. and transfer the bucket water to the other tanks.

SeeCrabRun · 05/01/2015, 08:55 AM

What about reusing the sand though?

skeeter_ca · 05/01/2015, 09:43 AM

IMHO, I do believe transferring the sand will destroy the infauna population. You would then have a large cycle to go through again. They are very fragile. If you just want to reuse the sand then remove it and flush thoroughly until all of the life is gone. You can do this with a garden hose in a tub or bucket outside. After you are sure all life, detris and debris has been removed flush again with plenty of clean RO/DI water and it should be good to go like new sand.

SeeCrabRun · 05/01/2015, 09:53 AM

That's essentially what I was going for. First remove the creatures, then clean the sand for reuse.

It sounds like I'll probably drain most of the water, put some "traps", and then harvest those. Use a square container to carefully harvest the top half inch. Then thoroughly wash the remaining sand for reuse.

Then I want to lay the washed sand in the bottom of the refugium and carefully transfer that top sand onto it.

Sound right?

04/30/2015, 07:54 PM	#1
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Saving a DSB, but more importantly the pod population. Dragonet involved. Firstly I want to make it clear that I have a habit of talking circles around myself, so I am going to try not to confuse everyone! I have multiple systems of different types and will mention them all in this post. I have an ocellated dragonet (scooter blenny) that is in a reef system with an active refugium and she was the only inhabitant until I was certain she could be sustained. This post is not about her system, but it will impact her food source in hopefully a good way. Sorry about such disclaimers, but I do want to make sure we are clear before we start. Now... I recently upgraded my mature FOWLR to a larger tank and obviously the DSB did not go with it. Instead I left it in the original tank and just have the tank off to the side with a heater and power head. There was still CUC I was slowly picking out as they emerged from the sand over the days. The other night I decided to take a flashlight to the now lifeless tank, except it wasn't lifeless. It was SWARMING with pods. Tisbe in specific. This is the strain I cultivate to feed my ocellated dragonet. I add them to her tank on a regular basis but I occasionally add them to the other tanks in case, for some reason, I need to put her in one of them in an emergency (not likely but I'd rather be prepared). So I now have more pods in this half empty tank than I do in all of my cultures combined, since it hasn't been harvested at all in an actual month! I want to somehow harvest them, but more than that, I want to try and move the sandbed and some pods into a smaller tank on my now upgraded system to continue to cultivate the pods there(as well as the refugium on her system and the actual cultures I keep). So basically a dedicated refugium away from the filtration system and away from her system. Basically I'm creating backups of backups of backups to make sure she always have enough food. Anyway. I know I can't transfer the DSB as it is. If I sift it even a little it'll cause a cycle. I don't want this cycle to go into the fish system, nor do I want it to kill the pods in the tank it is now. I was wondering if I could stir and vacuum small sections at a time and run them through my zoo/phytoplankton sieves to harvest any pods and then move the now vacuumed and sifted sand into the refugium. I'm mostly worried about crashing the lush culture that is in this tank while trying to shift things over. I would absolutely love any advice that you have on this and instructions on the best way to achieve my goal. Thanks in advance! __________________ Sara ~ Perpetually tinkering with my tanks.

04/30/2015, 08:27 PM	#3
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Thanks. I have indeed considered something to that extent. Part of my wish to clean the sand was economic reasons. I hate to end up literally throwing away the sand after everything is harvested. I figured if it was cleaned it could start becoming a DSB in the refugium again. __________________ Sara ~ Perpetually tinkering with my tanks.

05/01/2015, 08:53 AM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Try this. Cut half-inch strips of corrugated plastic-cardboard, that they use in yard signage. Turn them so the holes are up and glue the strips together in a small block. Make several of these, and use weights (rock) to sink them to the sandbed. Leave them several days. Then pick them up carefully into a bucket and see if you haven't collected some pods in those. A shake should clean them out, so you can do it again. and transfer the bucket water to the other tanks. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/01/2015, 08:55 AM	#6
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	What about reusing the sand though? __________________ Sara ~ Perpetually tinkering with my tanks.

05/01/2015, 09:43 AM	#7
skeeter_ca Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,007	IMHO, I do believe transferring the sand will destroy the infauna population. You would then have a large cycle to go through again. They are very fragile. If you just want to reuse the sand then remove it and flush thoroughly until all of the life is gone. You can do this with a garden hose in a tub or bucket outside. After you are sure all life, detris and debris has been removed flush again with plenty of clean RO/DI water and it should be good to go like new sand. __________________ skeeter - It is easier to ask for forgiveness than premission. My motto to my wife. Current Tank Info: 75rr,6"dsb,refugium,auto top-off & semi-auto water changer, OM squirt. 4 MJs 1200, Started on 03/03/06

04/30/2015, 08:14 PM	#2
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	idk much about it but I wonder how deep the pods actually go into the sand? like, if you put a bunch of mesh bags with rock rubble in there for a while and then moved them over to the new tank with the top inch of sand you might get a good majority of the pods (specially if you did it at night when they're a'roamin). You could have a few inches of fresh sand in the new tank ready to go, and lay the rich pod-y stuff over the top to seed it. I guess it could still cycle just from taking off the top layer but with the rock rubble it might be minimal enough for amquel or prime to handle. Then when the sun comes up they will all wiggle down and get to work. Just a thought. BTW your post was super-clear I didn't have any trouble following your logic

05/01/2015, 07:31 AM	#4
ReefsandGeeks Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,708	I've seen pods make little caves in the sand on the edges of my glass, and they seemed to only go down maybe an inch typicaly. Not definitive, but I'd agree that top inch is good for majority

05/01/2015, 09:53 AM	#8
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	That's essentially what I was going for. First remove the creatures, then clean the sand for reuse. It sounds like I'll probably drain most of the water, put some "traps", and then harvest those. Use a square container to carefully harvest the top half inch. Then thoroughly wash the remaining sand for reuse. Then I want to lay the washed sand in the bottom of the refugium and carefully transfer that top sand onto it. Sound right? __________________ Sara ~ Perpetually tinkering with my tanks.