Gone skimmerless !

jestronix · 05/14/2015, 05:41 AM

My old skimmer packed it in after 6 years hard work. So.... After reading up on skimmerless systems And having a look at some of the amazing tanks running without skimmers I thought why not.

I have upgraded to a 130g cube tank, so I thought I would would setup a 50g Caulerpa fuge and run some 39watts of T5 over it.

So far so good, only a few weeks in everything is happy as. I do run passive GAC and passive GFO but only tiny amounts just to pick toxins and a little phosphate,

I run lots of aeration via some wood air stones to help with gas exchange.

I love that pods and other things will flow into the DT, exporting loads of Caulerpa makes me all warm and fuzzy, if all goes well I will be able to reduce my maintenance, no cleaning the skimmer etc , soon my water changes will be fully automatic thus reducing maintenance even more.

Give me a couple months , skimmer may be back, but worth trying something new first.

Webmanny · 05/14/2015, 05:59 AM

Sounds great. I think this is the second thread I've read on this. The only thing the other person did on top of what you have done so far was add an Algae Scrubber. He seemed very happy and showed progress and healthy tank over the course of a year.

I'll try to find the video to share it here.

jestronix · 05/14/2015, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmanny

Sounds great. I think this is the second thread I've read on this. The only thing the other person did on top of what you have done so far was add an Algae Scrubber. He seemed very happy and showed progress and healthy tank over the course of a year.

I'll try to find the video to share it here.

Cool that would be great.

nvladik · 05/14/2015, 06:20 AM

There's a whole algae scrubber master thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1977420

Webmanny · 05/15/2015, 08:25 AM

Found the thread I mentioned above. Here is the video. I think it looks very promising if you will keep up with the maintenance of the scrubber and harvest the algae on schedule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD6kA3xDPaM

wildman926 · 05/15/2015, 08:41 AM

You will be back with a skimmer. I run both, ATS and Skimmer, and I still pull out a good load of doc from the skimmer. Just think about what you used to remove with the skimmer, and now it stays in your system.

Bpb · 05/15/2015, 08:43 AM

My tank was skimmerless for several months. I observed much much fluffier and more prounounced and inflated LPS tissue, and far more rapid zoa growth. I also did notice the PE was much poorer on my acropora, but the base tissue colors were much darker. Since bringing the skimmer back on, things have directly reversed. LPS tissue seems less inflated/more skeleton texture visible, acropora base tissue is a little more pale, but polyp extension is night and day different. I don't think skimmers are every bit as necessary as some may lead us to believe. They're useful and can allow you to overfeed a bit, but contrary to most startup guides on this forum and many others, the biggest and best skimmer within the reefers budget is NOT the first and most important thing on the list of equipement to buy. I'd rather spend extra on lighting, testing, and ca/alk maintenance than skimming.

jestronix · 05/16/2015, 06:36 AM

What I have noticed is running air stones in the sump helped with PE.

jestronix · 05/16/2015, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmanny

Found the thread I mentioned above. Here is the video. I think it looks very promising if you will keep up with the maintenance of the scrubber and harvest the algae on schedule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD6kA3xDPaM

That was a pretty amazing amount he was pulling out at the end, I think I might run the same but with T5 lighting.

Webmanny · 05/18/2015, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jestronix

That was a pretty amazing amount he was pulling out at the end, I think I might run the same but with T5 lighting.

Do they make T5 bulbs that small or are you thinking of making it larger to fit the bulb? Also, I'm sure you already know this, but please keep in mind that the light should be closer to a purple or red than blue. Just pointing it out.

Good luck and share your experience with us when you set it up. I'm thinking of adding something like this in the back of my 29 biocube and see where it goes.

jestronix · 05/18/2015, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmanny

Do they make T5 bulbs that small or are you thinking of making it larger to fit the bulb? Also, I'm sure you already know this, but please keep in mind that the light should be closer to a purple or red than blue. Just pointing it out.

Good luck and share your experience with us when you set it up. I'm thinking of adding something like this in the back of my 29 biocube and see where it goes.

I could go a 2fter but I guess I could use a small dual T8 plant bulb

jestronix · 05/28/2015, 06:15 AM

I love skimmerless so far , everything's trucking along. Nice amount of cyano in the sump, and a good amount of Caulerpa. Will be doing a little house keeping this weekend. But I'm very surprised with the health of the coral, much happier than when I was skimming. I do find I clean the glass more often, but all worth it, no more skimmer tuning for now...... Being bare bottom , I think I'm getting away with not having a cyano sand bed.

jestronix · 05/30/2015, 10:52 PM

The wonders of gutter guard ! I had a bit of gutter guard laying around and thought about how it might Boost cyano growth. So I gave it a week and was quiet surprised , I am also using it as my scrubber on my return.

I'm leaning on using cyano for this skimmerless tank, it devours nitrates! And my Caulerpa seems happy growing along side for my phosphate control. Hopefully my little scrubber will help out too. I really want to see if I can get away with biological and a little GAC in this tank.

This is one week

And my scrubber, only set this up today. May do it on all 3 returns, but concerned about its ability to cool the thank, winter here.

ReefCowboy · 05/31/2015, 12:28 AM

I only see two clowns a yellow tang, and two cardinals...any other fish? BTW beautiful tank

jestronix · 05/31/2015, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefCowboy

I only see two clowns a yellow tang, and two cardinals...any other fish? BTW beautiful tank

Thanks , 6 cardinals and yep 1 tang two clowns. So not a massive bio load. I recently upgraded tank size so could be time for more stock.cardinals will die off soon, almost 2 years old. I hear they done go much beyond that ?

Webmanny · 05/31/2015, 06:22 AM

Amazing tank. Thank you for sharing this with us. It looks like you are doing great without mechanical filtration and I do hope it keeps going well. Please keep us posted.

jestronix · 06/01/2015, 06:58 AM

Thanks manny will do. Well I'm blown away ! I read zero on both phosphate and nitrate tonight, I've been feeding two cubes of mysis and 1 rotifer per day. I don't want an ULNS tank, so I'm going to up the feed and see what we get. I've done a good export of cyano today but left the giant yellow blob there, I think he's happy consuming nasty shite.

I'm seeing encrustation on lots of corals that I've always had issues with, same with color it's getting better day by day. Stoked with this system so far.

I'm also only running 1x for my return, which seems to do the trick. In the tank I'm running my m40s on random mode at full power along with two siccee one lodged in rock under the rock stand, this seems to keep the glass bottom clear of detritus and lifts it up. The other I have mounted to the side, so I've got a good amount of flow going. Nothing crazy though as my Goni slowly moves around.

Well people say you would need a fuge about the same size as your DT and I'd say mine is close on XY.

Couple of pix from tonight

And I've had a number of fungia spwan around the place

Webmanny · 06/01/2015, 11:42 AM

Simply amazing. I absolutely love how your tank looks. Everything looks super healthy. I'm actually starting the design process to make this move myself also. I'm at the last phase of building my new stand and combining two tanks, one of which will become a frag tank/display refuge.

I'll keep you posted as well on that project.

Thank you for sharing.

jestronix · 06/01/2015, 02:46 PM

Thanks manny

. Keep me posted on your build process.

jestronix · 06/09/2015, 02:14 AM

Well again , undetectable p04 and p03. Think I'll get some Hanna test kits as I'm getting nothing on salifert. The fuge is a battle between cyano vs caulerpa and yellowgreen cyano on the water surface. Also my small scrubber is starting to show a little growth.

Encrustation and color is wonderful. It's only early days but I'm hooked on big fuges and no skimming.
I must have a lot of organics in the system as its daily glass cleaning. Yet everything is healthy as.

jestronix · 06/14/2015, 07:35 AM

well I'm blown away more and more by this setup, I'm really starting to think skimmers pull out a lot of good stuff out of our tanks. The kinda stuff our corals love. Currently I change GAC once a week and remove some caulerpa and cyano, along with a fairly small weekly water change. It seems the cyano and caulerpa grow as slow or quick as they need depending on how regular I feed.

I'm particalury impressed by the amount of yellow cyano on the surface of the water in the fuge (bottom pic) I pull out maybe a cup of this a week! It's pretty much got the consistency of snot!

And my little scrubber seems to be growing a little hair too, wil take it out next week and see what I get from it.

I'm starting to think the more biological methods the better , cyano, caulerpa, hair algae and a bit of GAC and all the goodies stay in the tank.

I currently run my return at a rate of 1x, which is pretty low and certainly below most tanks. I probably don't have a huge amount of fish for a 600 litre system.

And my wonderful filter, cyano and caulerpa forest.

Webmanny · 06/15/2015, 09:56 AM

Wow. Very nice and dark colors on all corals. Awesome progress. Thanks for sharing.

jestronix · 06/16/2015, 01:54 AM

Thanks many

ReefWreak · 06/16/2015, 09:24 AM

I'm subscribed. Really interesting results.

Just one more different approach to the hobby.

I just got rid of my algae and turned my fuge light off, and I'm going only skimmer for a little while to see if I can get my nitrates to increase slightly to fuel color and growth of my SPS, so this is a nice counterpoint to see how it goes.

People have been successful with reef tanks and SPS tanks with both approaches, so I don't question for a minute that we'll both be successful

Thanks for documenting your progress though!

jestronix · 06/17/2015, 04:38 AM

Thanks, yeh many ways to skin a cat. Mmmm I'm now trying to work out if u can over filter with a big fuge, I can't get readings of nitrate or phosphate. So time to up the feeding right ? or more stock. I think it's time add a few more fish ?

05/14/2015, 05:41 AM	#1
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Gone skimmerless ! My old skimmer packed it in after 6 years hard work. So.... After reading up on skimmerless systems And having a look at some of the amazing tanks running without skimmers I thought why not. I have upgraded to a 130g cube tank, so I thought I would would setup a 50g Caulerpa fuge and run some 39watts of T5 over it. So far so good, only a few weeks in everything is happy as. I do run passive GAC and passive GFO but only tiny amounts just to pick toxins and a little phosphate, I run lots of aeration via some wood air stones to help with gas exchange. I love that pods and other things will flow into the DT, exporting loads of Caulerpa makes me all warm and fuzzy, if all goes well I will be able to reduce my maintenance, no cleaning the skimmer etc , soon my water changes will be fully automatic thus reducing maintenance even more. Give me a couple months , skimmer may be back, but worth trying something new first.

05/14/2015, 05:59 AM	#2
Webmanny Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: 33612 Posts: 2,461	Sounds great. I think this is the second thread I've read on this. The only thing the other person did on top of what you have done so far was add an Algae Scrubber. He seemed very happy and showed progress and healthy tank over the course of a year. I'll try to find the video to share it here. __________________ 32 gallon Biocube, DIY LEDs and Triton Method. My N=1 study of me, validated by me, and supported by completely anecdotal evidence, states that my advice is 100% correct, most of the time.

05/15/2015, 08:25 AM	#5
Webmanny Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: 33612 Posts: 2,461	Found the thread I mentioned above. Here is the video. I think it looks very promising if you will keep up with the maintenance of the scrubber and harvest the algae on schedule. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD6kA3xDPaM __________________ 32 gallon Biocube, DIY LEDs and Triton Method. My N=1 study of me, validated by me, and supported by completely anecdotal evidence, states that my advice is 100% correct, most of the time.

05/15/2015, 08:41 AM	#6
wildman926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CTX Posts: 2,904	You will be back with a skimmer. I run both, ATS and Skimmer, and I still pull out a good load of doc from the skimmer. Just think about what you used to remove with the skimmer, and now it stays in your system. __________________ Beware of recommendations by those who don't actually use their recommendation!! The search function actually works quite well!! Tanks:Planet Aquarium 150g LPS, Planet Aquarium 90g Softie

05/31/2015, 06:22 AM	#16
Webmanny Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: 33612 Posts: 2,461	Amazing tank. Thank you for sharing this with us. It looks like you are doing great without mechanical filtration and I do hope it keeps going well. Please keep us posted. __________________ 32 gallon Biocube, DIY LEDs and Triton Method. My N=1 study of me, validated by me, and supported by completely anecdotal evidence, states that my advice is 100% correct, most of the time.

05/14/2015, 06:20 AM	#4
nvladik Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 361	There's a whole algae scrubber master thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1977420

05/15/2015, 08:43 AM	#7
Bpb Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 3,148	My tank was skimmerless for several months. I observed much much fluffier and more prounounced and inflated LPS tissue, and far more rapid zoa growth. I also did notice the PE was much poorer on my acropora, but the base tissue colors were much darker. Since bringing the skimmer back on, things have directly reversed. LPS tissue seems less inflated/more skeleton texture visible, acropora base tissue is a little more pale, but polyp extension is night and day different. I don't think skimmers are every bit as necessary as some may lead us to believe. They're useful and can allow you to overfeed a bit, but contrary to most startup guides on this forum and many others, the biggest and best skimmer within the reefers budget is NOT the first and most important thing on the list of equipement to buy. I'd rather spend extra on lighting, testing, and ca/alk maintenance than skimming.

05/16/2015, 06:36 AM	#8
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	What I have noticed is running air stones in the sump helped with PE.

05/28/2015, 06:15 AM	#12
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	I love skimmerless so far , everything's trucking along. Nice amount of cyano in the sump, and a good amount of Caulerpa. Will be doing a little house keeping this weekend. But I'm very surprised with the health of the coral, much happier than when I was skimming. I do find I clean the glass more often, but all worth it, no more skimmer tuning for now...... Being bare bottom , I think I'm getting away with not having a cyano sand bed.

05/30/2015, 10:52 PM	#13
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	The wonders of gutter guard ! I had a bit of gutter guard laying around and thought about how it might Boost cyano growth. So I gave it a week and was quiet surprised , I am also using it as my scrubber on my return. I'm leaning on using cyano for this skimmerless tank, it devours nitrates! And my Caulerpa seems happy growing along side for my phosphate control. Hopefully my little scrubber will help out too. I really want to see if I can get away with biological and a little GAC in this tank. This is one week And my scrubber, only set this up today. May do it on all 3 returns, but concerned about its ability to cool the thank, winter here.

05/31/2015, 12:28 AM	#14
ReefCowboy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 1,742	I only see two clowns a yellow tang, and two cardinals...any other fish? BTW beautiful tank

06/01/2015, 06:58 AM	#17
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Thanks manny will do. Well I'm blown away ! I read zero on both phosphate and nitrate tonight, I've been feeding two cubes of mysis and 1 rotifer per day. I don't want an ULNS tank, so I'm going to up the feed and see what we get. I've done a good export of cyano today but left the giant yellow blob there, I think he's happy consuming nasty shite. I'm seeing encrustation on lots of corals that I've always had issues with, same with color it's getting better day by day. Stoked with this system so far. I'm also only running 1x for my return, which seems to do the trick. In the tank I'm running my m40s on random mode at full power along with two siccee one lodged in rock under the rock stand, this seems to keep the glass bottom clear of detritus and lifts it up. The other I have mounted to the side, so I've got a good amount of flow going. Nothing crazy though as my Goni slowly moves around. Well people say you would need a fuge about the same size as your DT and I'd say mine is close on XY. Couple of pix from tonight And I've had a number of fungia spwan around the place

06/01/2015, 11:42 AM	#18
Webmanny Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: 33612 Posts: 2,461	Simply amazing. I absolutely love how your tank looks. Everything looks super healthy. I'm actually starting the design process to make this move myself also. I'm at the last phase of building my new stand and combining two tanks, one of which will become a frag tank/display refuge. I'll keep you posted as well on that project. Thank you for sharing. __________________ 32 gallon Biocube, DIY LEDs and Triton Method. My N=1 study of me, validated by me, and supported by completely anecdotal evidence, states that my advice is 100% correct, most of the time.

06/01/2015, 02:46 PM	#19
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Thanks manny . Keep me posted on your build process.

06/09/2015, 02:14 AM	#20
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Well again , undetectable p04 and p03. Think I'll get some Hanna test kits as I'm getting nothing on salifert. The fuge is a battle between cyano vs caulerpa and yellowgreen cyano on the water surface. Also my small scrubber is starting to show a little growth. Encrustation and color is wonderful. It's only early days but I'm hooked on big fuges and no skimming. I must have a lot of organics in the system as its daily glass cleaning. Yet everything is healthy as.

06/14/2015, 07:35 AM	#21
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	well I'm blown away more and more by this setup, I'm really starting to think skimmers pull out a lot of good stuff out of our tanks. The kinda stuff our corals love. Currently I change GAC once a week and remove some caulerpa and cyano, along with a fairly small weekly water change. It seems the cyano and caulerpa grow as slow or quick as they need depending on how regular I feed. I'm particalury impressed by the amount of yellow cyano on the surface of the water in the fuge (bottom pic) I pull out maybe a cup of this a week! It's pretty much got the consistency of snot! And my little scrubber seems to be growing a little hair too, wil take it out next week and see what I get from it. I'm starting to think the more biological methods the better , cyano, caulerpa, hair algae and a bit of GAC and all the goodies stay in the tank. I currently run my return at a rate of 1x, which is pretty low and certainly below most tanks. I probably don't have a huge amount of fish for a 600 litre system. And my wonderful filter, cyano and caulerpa forest.

06/15/2015, 09:56 AM	#22
Webmanny Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: 33612 Posts: 2,461	Wow. Very nice and dark colors on all corals. Awesome progress. Thanks for sharing. __________________ 32 gallon Biocube, DIY LEDs and Triton Method. My N=1 study of me, validated by me, and supported by completely anecdotal evidence, states that my advice is 100% correct, most of the time.

06/16/2015, 01:54 AM	#23
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Thanks many

06/16/2015, 09:24 AM	#24
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	I'm subscribed. Really interesting results. Just one more different approach to the hobby. I just got rid of my algae and turned my fuge light off, and I'm going only skimmer for a little while to see if I can get my nitrates to increase slightly to fuel color and growth of my SPS, so this is a nice counterpoint to see how it goes. People have been successful with reef tanks and SPS tanks with both approaches, so I don't question for a minute that we'll both be successful Thanks for documenting your progress though!

06/17/2015, 04:38 AM	#25
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Thanks, yeh many ways to skin a cat. Mmmm I'm now trying to work out if u can over filter with a big fuge, I can't get readings of nitrate or phosphate. So time to up the feeding right ? or more stock. I think it's time add a few more fish ?